Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

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Rafale-M Fighters Conduct 4000 Km Simulated Strike On Enemy Targets; Set To Boost Indian Navy’s Firepower

The French Rafale-Marine fighter jets conducted a long-range maritime strike as part of the recent NATO drills, codenamed ‘Neptune Strike,’ hailed as the largest NATO deployment since Russia launched the invasion of Ukraine.
NATO Maritime Command’s official handle took to Platform X to announce a record maritime strike simulated by French fighter jets. Two Rafale Marines simulated a long-range maritime strike over 4000 kilometers from the Ionian Sea to the Baltic Sea.

They were guided by ATL2 (a long-range maritime patrol aircraft endowed with endurance and maneuverability when flying low over water in pursuit of a submarine) and supported by air refueling from the French Air and Space Forces.

The post was accompanied by photographs showing the aircraft taking off from the deck of the French Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier. The stunning display of a very long-range maritime strike has been hailed by military watchers and netizens alike, who expressed their astonishment and pride in the French capability to deal with impending threats.

NATO launched one of its biggest naval deployments since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last month, with the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle taking part in military drills under the NATO Command for the first time. The French carrier and its accompanying vessels were the centerpieces of the maritime strike drills aimed at bolstering integration and interoperability among NATO states.

The French carrier was deployed in the Mediterranean, close to its home port of Toulon. Although specific details were not available for security reasons, Rear Adm. Jacques Mallard, Commander of the French CSG, showed a slide of the Charles De Gaulle carrying an embarked airwing of 18 Rafale M fighters, a land-based Atlantique 2 maritime patrol aircraft, two E-2C Hawkeye Airborne Early Warning and Control (AWEC) and two Dauphin helicopters.

NATO described the Neptune Strike (NEST) as a multi-domain and multi-national enhanced vigilance activity. The unscripted maritime exercise honed NATO’s ability to integrate maritime capabilities, including carrier strike groups, to support Allied defense. This made the maritime strike conducted by the Rafale-Ms all the more significant and noteworthy. The mission may have added to the Rafale aircraft’s already skyrocketing popularity.

The Rafale M is a versatile single-seat aircraft designed for a variety of missions. It is capable of quick reaction alerts, air defense, air policing, nuclear deterrence, power projection, external missions, deep strike operations, air support for ground forces, and pilot training sorties.

On its official website, the manufacturer Dassault Aviation notes that the Rafale “complies with the requirement to carry out the widest range of roles with the smallest number of aircraft.”

The service ceiling, or maximum altitude it can reach under standard air conditions, is 50,000 feet. The Rafale M can conduct air-to-ground and air-to-air attacks in a single mission, with a speed range from less than 120 knots (222.24 km per hour) during an approach to a maximum speed of 750 knots (1,389 mph).

With adequate refueling support, the aircraft has demonstrated its ability to conduct long-range strikes by taking off from anywhere on the sea. This capability may also interest India, which is looking to acquire 26 Rafale Marine combat aircraft from France.

Rafale Marines To Boost Indian Maritime Capability

Last year, France received a Letter of Request (LoR) from India to sell Dassault Aviation’s Rafale Marines to the Indian Navy for its aircraft carriers.

The LoR is like a tender document in which the Indian government has outlined all the features and specifications it is looking for in a Rafale Marine aircraft. The cost of the aircraft is also reportedly being worked between the two sides.

India officially informed France of its intention to purchase 26 Rafale fighter aircraft for the Indian Navy, initiating the inter-governmental framework-based acquisition procedure. However, the two sides have yet to sign an official agreement. Should this deal fructify, France would have sold 62 Rafales to India, including 36 to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The order for the naval variant of the Rafale combat jet could be placed later this year to meet the Indian Navy’s urgent operational requirements. The Indian Navy previously informed the Indian Ministry of Defence of its preference for the French fighter aircraft Rafale Marine over the only other contender, Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet.

The Indian Navy Air Arm is looking for a replacement for its aging MiG-29K aircraft, the combat air platform for the Russian-origin INS Vikramaditya, the other operational aircraft carrier. The Rafale-M aircraft will be used aboard India’s indigenously developed aircraft carrier INS Vikrant.

The Indian Navy’s first home-built aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, entered service in September 2022. However, critical aviation testing for the conventional MiG-29K carrier-based fighter and the home-based LCA Navy began many months ahead of schedule.

India is developing its own Twin-Engine Deck-Based Fighter (TEDBF) aircraft to fulfill its long-term requirement for carrier-based missions. However, the Indian Navy has decided to purchase a new carrier-based fighter jet to meet its short-term needs, as it will take some time for the country’s naval combat aircraft to be developed domestically.

When India and France sign an agreement to purchase Rafale Marine, the Indian Navy will become the country’s first export customer for the carrier-based fighter. Paris has already successfully exported the Air Force variant to several countries, including India.

The recent feat accomplished by the jet in the NATO maritime drills augurs well for the reputation of the French aircraft, especially as the country looks to bolster exports further.
A strike to impress Indian navy and... Turkey.
 

As Navy starts cost negotiations for Rafale M, India could learn from France

French team will include officials from defence ministry & industry including original equipment manufacturers Dassault Aviation and Thales for negotiation Thursday.


New Delhi: The Indian Navy is set to formally start the cost negotiations with a French delegation on Thursday for the procurement of 26 Rafale Marine aircraft that will operate from its two aircraft carriers.

While all eyes are on how much the deal will eventually cost, ThePrint has learnt that it is likely to be close to Euro 4 billion, which comes to be a little less than Rs 40,000 crore. This will include the vanilla cost (bare cost) of the aircraft, besides missiles and maintenance contracts.

Sources in the defence establishment said that the Indian side invited the French side for the first round of talks Thursday. The French team will include officials from the defence ministry and industry, including original equipment manufacturers Dassault Aviation and Thales.

In December, ThePrint had reported that the Indian Navy has inched closer to getting 26 Rafale Marine aircraft, with France sending in a detailed bid and that a contract will be inked only after the general elections.

The sources said the focus is to ensure that the government-to-government contract is signed within this fiscal. This is because the delivery will begin only three years after signing the contract, which means it is imperative on the Indian Navy to sign the contract as soon as possible.

Asked if there was a provision for French handing over aircraft meant for its navy as emergency measures, the sources said that no such issue is being discussed as far the cost negotiations are concerned.

Talking about the cost negotiations, sources say that the final cost of the aircraft will be based on what the Indian Navy negotiators focus on. While the exact number is yet to be known, it can be bought cheaper if one follows the French operational concept.

Just like in France where the Navy and the Air Force operate the Rafale fighters, India will also do so since the IAF already has 36 of them. In France, the maintenance and stores for the Rafale is common, besides common simulators.

Similarly, if India decides to go in for common maintenance and stores, the cost of the overall contract can come down, a source explained, adding that the overall cost of the contract involves maintenance and infrastructure building contracts which are also significant.

The IAF has raised two Rafale squadrons — Hasimara and Ambala — which have their own stores and simulators.

Even at that time, many found it odd that the IAF would go in for two separate facilities when all the 36 Rafales could have been housed in one single base. However, since the IAF set up two separate bases, it was felt that this was done because the air force will be procuring more Rafales.

While the IAF is still looking for 114 Medium Multi Role Aircraft (MRFA), there is no forward movement on that.

As per the Indian Navy plan, it will be acquiring 22 single seater fighters and another four twin seaters. In August, ThePrint had reported that the Indian Navy was preparing to send bid papers to France but no joint acquisition was being planned.

Joint acquisition by the IAF and the Navy would have meant that the cost would have gone down and India would have another line of fighter aircraft manufacturing, besides the Tejas fighter. This is because Dassault would have then got the numbers to set up a production line in India.
 
Price negotiation to start soon

India & France to begin negotiation for Indian Nayv's acquisition of 26 fighter jets worth Rs 50,000 crore.
High-level French delegation to meet with Indian Defence Ministry this week.

This is great news albeit expected. Just hope we also order Rafale F4.2 (2 squadrons) along with 26 M variants. Even talking about M, we need around 52 and not just 26.

Yes, Rafale is eye-watering expensive, but the capability it brings forth is unparallel. Both PLAAF and PAF are sh*t scared of it.
 
This is great news albeit expected. Just hope we also order Rafale F4.2 (2 squadrons) along with 26 M variants. Even talking about M, we need around 52 and not just 26.

Yes, Rafale is eye-watering expensive, but the capability it brings forth is unparallel. Both PLAAF and PAF are sh*t scared of it.
If we order 2 squadron, the MMRCA will be perished for ever. Either you oder 114 Rafale now, or don't place order for single rafale for IAF now.
 
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MMRCA progressing, lets nacho

India, France kickstart imp negotiations on the 26 Rafale deal.
Imp points:
1. French DGA n Indian Defence ministry acquisition officials in meeting
2. Deal expected to cost more than Rs 50,000 crore
3. Indian Navy to base aircraft at Vizag on eastern front.
4. India trying to get a better deal from the 2016 project



 

(theprint)

Base price of Rafale agreed upon, fighters for Navy to have India-specific enhancements​

Navy team has already visited Ambala air station where IAF has kept one squadron of Rafales to understand commonalities of maintenance that can be pursued.​


New Delhi: India and France have agreed upon the base price of the 26 Rafale M fighters, which will come with several specific enhancements sought by the Navy to enable them to operate from both indigenous and Russian-origin aircraft carriers.

Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that the first round of cost negotiations has taken place and further rounds will be held with the aim to sew up a contract by this year’s end.

They also added that the Rafale Marine, or Rafale M, will come with several specific enhancements as sought by the Indian Navy.

These will include some of the enhancements carried out for the IAF’s Rafales, including helmet mounted display, low band frequency jammers, better radio altimeter than the one integrated by the French and very high frequency range decoys, among others.


Asked about what specific changes the Navy wants, sources said that it was related to software changes for air to sea mode, changes to electromagnetic interference (EMI) and electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) and certain software upgrades needed to enable the aircraft to land on an Indian carrier.

As per its plan, the Indian Navy will be acquiring 22 single seater fighters and another four twin seaters.

Regarding the base price of the aircraft, the sources said it is the same as that of the IAF Rafales but taken with the escalation in mind.

While all eyes are on how much the deal will eventually cost, ThePrint has learnt that it is likely to be close to Euro 4 billion, which comes to be a little less than Rs 40,000 crore. This will include the vanilla cost (bare cost) of the aircraft, besides missiles and maintenance contracts.


The sources said that the cost negotiations for the Indian side is being led by a joint secretary-rank IAS officer while a Commodore-rank officer from the Indian Navy is also part of the team.

Pointing out to ThePrint’s report earlier that the Indian Navy could learn from the French when it comes to operations and maintenance of the same fighters across the navy and the air force, the sources said that a Navy team had already visited Ambala air station.

The IAF has kept one squadron of Rafales in Ambala. The sources said that the Navy team looked at the IAF facilities and that both sides have already discussed the common approach that can be done./end
 
Yes, Rafale is eye-watering expensive,
There is not one price for a jet.
You may purchase it "dry" : without support, training, weapon, spare.
You may purchase it with one, or 2 or 3 or 5 years of full maintenance and a complete range of weapons.
You may purchase it with 5 years of full support, maintenance, bases accomodation, high level of offsets, some specific goodies = Indian case for the 36 first Rafale.

In the first exemple the cost is in the 75 - 85 € million each.
In the last more 200-250 € million each.

A SH18 with the same level of service is in the same price range.
 
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There is not one price for a jet.
You may purchase it "dry" : without support, training, weapon, spare.
You may purchase it with one, or 2 or 3 or 5 years of full maintenance and a complete range of weapons.
You may purchase it with 5 years of full support, maintenance, bases accomodation, high level of offsets, some specific goodies = Indian case for the 36 first Rafale.

In the first exemple the cost is in the 75 - 85 € million each.
In the last more 200-250 € million each.

A SH18 with the same level of service is in the same price range.
What part of the above contradicts with the quoted observation ?
 
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What part of the above contradicts with the quoted observation ?
If you compare some US deal, with poor support and only an initial batch of weapons (because Uncle Sam will always love you, protect you and mainly milk you) and a far more complete one, you may find the first affordable and the last one expensive.
In this field we always compare apple and strawberry, and never know the full truth.

So please stop with a kind of french bashing saying "french weapons are eye watering expensive".

NB : ask Switzerland about the very affordable F35... they don't have seen the first jet but already know they will have to pay extra for engine MLU :ROFLMAO::LOL::ROFLMAO:
 
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The Indian Ministry of Defence's Procurement Council will pave the way for the purchase of 26 Rafale-Marines

by Laurent Lagneau - 3 September 2024

Speaking on Europe 1 on 30 August, Dassault Aviation CEO Éric Trappier said that another Rafale contract could be signed before the end of the year, after the Serbian Ministry of Defence had confirmed its intention to buy twelve aircraft the previous day. As usual, he did not specify the country with which negotiations are underway. While Greece is a possibility, there is a very good chance that it will be India.

In July 2023, on the occasion of the twenty-fifth anniversary of the strategic partnership sealed by France and India, the Indian Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, confirmed the Indian Navy's choice of the Rafale Marine over Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, following an evaluation carried out as part of the MRCBF [Multi Role Carrier Borne Fighters] programme launched in 2017.

As a reminder, the Indian Navy intends to acquire 26 multi-role carrier-based fighter-bombers to replace its Russian-designed MiG-29Ks, which are underperforming, with high attrition and complicated maintenance. And this at a time when it is operating two aircraft carriers [INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant] and hopes to have a third.

Contract negotiations with Dassault Aviation [not forgetting Thales and Safran] were opened by India last November, with the submission of a letter of request. In July, the Economic Times reported that discussions were focusing on the value of the contract, then estimated at just over €6 billion. ‘The French offer includes options to integrate Indian weapons, including the Astra air-to-air missile, as well as India-specific upgrades and other related equipment,’ the daily said.

Did the Indian negotiators get a discount on this offer? The fact remains that, on 3 September, the Indian Ministry of Defence's Procurement Council is due to meet to approve the purchase of the 26 Rafale M aircraft. However, this does not mean that a contract will be signed immediately. As the Indian procedure is relatively complicated, it will then be up to a ‘cost negotiation committee’ to decide on the matter. This is what The Hindustan Times explained.

The daily also said that the DAC would abandon plans to integrate an experimental AESA radar developed by the DRDO on the Rafale M because ‘the cost is prohibitive’ and this would further delay the purchase of the on-board fighter-bombers.

‘The Indian Navy needs Rafale-Ms for its latest aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, in view of ‘the deteriorating strategic environment in the Indo-Pacific’, he writes. Hence, moreover, the imminent green light to build the 8 ‘advanced stealth frigates’ of project 17B, for more than 7 billion euros.
 
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What you're saying runs contrary to the lived experience of anybody who's tracked defence acquisitions or participated in them , whether in India or abroad in as far as price negotiations go especially if the ownership happens to be Jewish but since they've converted to Christianity they may have seen the light & become utra principled even if the business they're in , as a rule of thumb , is a dirty one & I don't mean Dassault or even the defence aviation business here but the military industrial conglomerate in general terms .

But , obviously you'd know better.
Has Dassault accepted modifications for the MMRCA?