Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

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So if you listen carefully to what Admiral Hari Kumar says in the video on X, you discover at around 1:10 or a little before that he says "some airframe assembly of the Rafale M will occur alongside Air Force Rafales": I don't think he did it on purpose... I think it escaped him.


He is talking about "production" though, not "assembly." Wasn't some of that done for the IAF deal as well?
 
I think you're projecting your own behaviour onto us.

Rafale M won't be more expensive than expected? I think it will.

EUR-INR was Rs 75 in 2016. Today it's Rs. 91.

So €7.87 would be 59000 Cr in 2016 but 71000 Cr today. Which means, the IN's gonna have to prepare to pay a higher base price for the Rafale M and the additional burden due to a weakened currency. They are not gonna get a cheaper deal than the IAF like people are assuming they would due to the existing infrastructure. Quite a bit of it has to be duplicated as well.

Plus we have to factor in the new inflation costs in Western Europe resulting from the the oil embargo on Russia. France's 10-year inflation until 2022 was 1.5%, but now it's 5.9%. On top of that, if they use the GTG deal as a baseline, then we will see an inflated base price as well because it's higher than France's traditional inflation rate. And then, even the inflation has to be converted to INR resulting in a higher escalation cost in the new deal. India's economy is still many years from turning into an asset, the deal will be completed by then.

So there's the triple whammy of a higher sticker price, inflation and conversion. No matter the cause the effect is a higher bill at the end of the day. Personally, it doesn't matter to me, it's a cheap price to pay for national security. With India also setting up a global satellite constellation by 2030, a happy surprise, the SH's main advantages suddenly became moot. So I see the Rafale M as a win-win. It's just that the IN is gonna be paying quite a bit more than they are expecting.
 
Inflation in France is not a real problem; there was a surge due to the crisis in Ukraine combined with problems with our nuclear power plants, but it is behind us.

Annual inflation was 4.9% in 2023, 5.2% in 2022, 1.6% in 2021, 0.5% in 2020, 1.1% in 2019 and 1.8% in 2018. will be around 3% in 2024 and will return to normal in 2025.
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Inflation in France is not a real problem; there was a surge due to the crisis in Ukraine combined with problems with our nuclear power plants, but it is behind us.

Annual inflation was 4.9% in 2023, 5.2% in 2022, 1.6% in 2021, 0.5% in 2020, 1.1% in 2019 and 1.8% in 2018. will be around 3% in 2024 and will return to normal in 2025.
image.jpg

That's with normal global economic conditions. War in the ME and Ukraine will play spoilsport.

And there are some serious indictations that China's civilian industries have started shifting towards military production.
 
Is there any "magic carpet" equivalent for Rafale M?
Yes in F4.1

Trials conducted with the Rafale M1, upgraded to an interim version of the F4 standard, are designed to test an automated mode offering landing assistance functions (similar to the US Navy's magic carpet system). The latest Rafale Marine F4 made its first landing on the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier at the end of 2021. This success confirms the technological innovations that will assist the pilot during this critical approach phase. These innovations come into play at two distinct moments, firstly during the conventional airborne positioning circuit, and then during the crucial last ten seconds of the manoeuvre.
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French aerospace giant Thales plans to set up avionics MRO in Delhi

As New Delhi and Paris looked to expand strategic partnership, French defence major Thales on Friday said it is bringing its "trusted" high-tech capabilities to India and plans to set up an avionics MRO in Delhi to provide world class services to its airline customers. Vice President and Country Director of Thales India Ashish Saraf said the company is fully committed and mobilised to support the modernisation and indigenisation efforts that are underway in the Indian aerospace and defence sector.

In their talks in Jaipur on Thursday night, Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President Emmanuel Macron resolved to further shore up bilateral strategic cooperation, especially in areas of defence, security, trade and clean energy.

Macron was the chief guest at the Republic Day celebrations at the Kartavya Path on Friday.

Saraf described the decision to set up the avionics MRO (maintenance, repair, and operations) in Delhi as a "key initiative" and asserted that Thales would fully support India's domestic defence manufacturing.

"We are actively bringing our trusted high-tech capabilities coupled with decades-long experience and working closely with the local industry to support Make-in-India for India and for the world," he told PTI.

Asked whether India's planned procurement of 26 Rafale-M fighter jets (marine version) and three Scorpene submarines from France would open new pathways for defence ties, Saraf did not give a direct reply but said Thales is proud to be a member of the Rafale team.

"We are proud to be a member of the Rafale team of which Dassault Aviation is the lead. Thales provides a number of state-of-the-art equipment and systems aboard the Rafale including the radar, the electronic warfare system, optronics, the communication navigation and identification system (CNI), the majority of the cockpit display systems, among others," he said.

India has already procured 36 Rafale jets from France for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

"We see huge potential to tap and to further build in-country capabilities across all our key markets including defence, aerospace and digital identity and security in India," Saraf said.

"We have shifted gears and have been taking numerous initiatives to expand our local footprint. One such initiative is our second state-of-the-art facility in Bengaluru that we recently inaugurated," he said.

The French aerospace major has been engaged with the Indian military for over the past seven decades.

"We are also further building on our defence foothold by developing local services capacity to better support our Indian defence customers to achieve their operational readiness," Saraf said.

"Apart from presenting immense business potential, India is also an excellent hub for research and development, backed by abundance of its engineering talent," he added.

The Thales executive said the company is ramping up its engineering centres and teams in Bengaluru and Noida.

"Another key initiative we are undertaking is the setting up an Avionics MRO in Delhi NCR to provide world class service efficiency to our airline customers," he said.

Saraf said Macron gracing the Republic Day celebrations as chief guest is symbolic of the strong India-France bilateral relationship.

"As a French multinational with a solid legacy built in defence and other sectors in India for the past seven decades, we see this partnership growing further, especially in design, development and manufacturing of advanced technologies in India," he noted.

Saraf said Thales is excited by the opportunities the fast-growing India-France partnership will present to both sides in various areas of cooperation like defence and security, space and cyberspace, among others.

The second Thales facility in Bengaluru is an extension of its engineering centre that works on complex avionics systems, in-flight entertainment, cockpit connectivity, video systems and radar software, among others.

"This Bengaluru engineering centre works every day with its peer-engineering center in Bordeaux, France," he said.

The defence and strategic ties between India and France have been on an upswing in the last few years.

The two strategic partners also expressed commitment to cooperate in the co-development and co-production of advanced defence technologies, including for the benefit of third countries.

The two sides are also expanding cooperation in the maritime domain including in the Indian Ocean Region.
 
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IAF is sticking with Rafale and AMCA combo for our future Air Dominance. F-35 and Su-57, both seem to be out of favour for now.
 
Step 4: MRFA cancellation.
Step 5 : XX Rafale M + XX Rafale B/C.
:unsure::ROFLMAO:🙃

My guess is if the F-35 wins MRFA, then the gap between contract to first delivery will be filled by more Rafales. That's at least a 5-year gap. Assuming the govt actually plans to order Rafales for the IAF too.

Or perhaps Dassault is fine with only assembling 26 + probably 18 Rafale Ms and waiting for MRFA.
 
My guess is if the F-35 wins MRFA, then the gap between contract to first delivery will be filled by more Rafales. That's at least a 5-year gap. Assuming the govt actually plans to order Rafales for the IAF too.

Or perhaps Dassault is fine with only assembling 26 + probably 18 Rafale Ms and waiting for MRFA.
Let's wait and see the DOT&E report, it shouldn't be too long now, but I'm afraid there will be a simplified report for the media and a full report for officials only.
 
Let's wait and see the DOT&E report, it shouldn't be too long now, but I'm afraid there will be a simplified report for the media and a full report for officials only.

Some of the most important details could be revealed.

What do you think about this TR-3 problem being blown out of proportion, with the real problem being serious deficiencies discovered during JSE that's preventing the Pentagon from taking more deliveries? TR-3 could be fine, 'cause LM tried to deliver the jets with it.

MRFA will require demonstrable capabilities, either on the jet itself or on an FTB. The IAF won't be impressed by visual effects in a computer game like the others were.
 
Some of the most important details could be revealed.

What do you think about this TR-3 problem being blown out of proportion, with the real problem being serious deficiencies discovered during JSE that's preventing the Pentagon from taking more deliveries? TR-3 could be fine, 'cause LM tried to deliver the jets with it.

MRFA will require demonstrable capabilities, either on the jet itself or on an FTB. The IAF won't be impressed by visual effects in a computer game like the others were.
I spoke to a specialist about the engine and he said:
I find it hard to accept this re-engining as a necessity arising from the TR-3. It seems more like an explanation chosen to mask another message, like a congenital defect that makes the current engine unsuitable for its intended use.
And as I tried to argue in favour of the engine, he added:
That would mean that they've already cut back on all the margins for development, even though the aircraft hasn't yet reached its full capacity. So either it's another problem (undersized engine), or it's a false problem (failed engine, to be redeveloped).
 
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