Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

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I spoke to a specialist about the engine and he said:
I find it hard to accept this re-engining as a necessity arising from the TR-3. It seems more like an explanation chosen to mask another message, like a congenital defect that makes the current engine unsuitable for its intended use.
And as I tried to argue in favour of the engine, he added:
That would mean that they've already cut back on all the margins for development, even though the aircraft hasn't yet reached its full capacity. So either it's another problem (undersized engine), or it's a false problem (failed engine, to be redeveloped).

The re-engining seem to be just an upgrade that was planned a long time ago.

Here's an article from 2012:
The F135 is required to provide 43,000lb of thrust in afterburner mode. The XTE68/LF1 is demonstrating a thrust improvement between 5% and 10%, potentially raising the single-engined fighter's overall performance from more than 45,100lb thrust to 47,300lb thrust.

This upgrade is a dropfit for existing engines. It may not only cover the original B4 upgrades, but also the new ones inserted into the B4 program, like GaN radar and 75% increase in EW antennas.

Now GO 2.0 with 20% increase (VCE upgrade), and AETP with 30% increase (new engine) seem to be meant for mid-life modernization, like F-16 B30, so it's not really a re-engining.

2.jpg


Based on this, the new B4 must have subsumed B5 and B6 into it. For example, the latter part of B4 will include EA capability by 2029. The new Advanced EOTS and JPALS are part of B4 now.

So old definitions seem to have changed. We can assume that the new B4 2029 objective is the original B6. The GaN upgrade could take it beyond B7, perhaps B10.
 
The re-engining seem to be just an upgrade that was planned a long time ago.

Here's an article from 2012:
The F135 is required to provide 43,000lb of thrust in afterburner mode. The XTE68/LF1 is demonstrating a thrust improvement between 5% and 10%, potentially raising the single-engined fighter's overall performance from more than 45,100lb thrust to 47,300lb thrust.

This upgrade is a dropfit for existing engines. It may not only cover the original B4 upgrades, but also the new ones inserted into the B4 program, like GaN radar and 75% increase in EW antennas.

Now GO 2.0 with 20% increase (VCE upgrade), and AETP with 30% increase (new engine) seem to be meant for mid-life modernization, like F-16 B30, so it's not really a re-engining.

Based on this, the new B4 must have subsumed B5 and B6 into it. For example, the latter part of B4 will include EA capability by 2029. The new Advanced EOTS and JPALS are part of B4 now.

So old definitions seem to have changed. We can assume that the new B4 2029 objective is the original B6. The GaN upgrade could take it beyond B7, perhaps B10.
I don't think it had anything to do with what was planned, it came out of the blue, with some pretty bizarre explanations, I think they were taken by surprise once again.
 
Seriously, i didn't get any clue on numbers.
But neither did I. I'd heard that 300 Rafales would be a nightmare for China, but that was before this site was created, say 5 years ago, so maybe today it would just be an annoyance? On the other hand, I've heard you say that 200 would be needed, and I've heard that to get an assembly line in India you'd have to order 100 in one go.
So, in my opinion, we need an assembly line to open up the possibilities, knowing that the number produced will depend on events: the speed of production of national programmes, the success or otherwise of the competition, the satisfaction of the IAF and the interest in the evolution of the Rafale programme, exports from India, cooperation with France on the SCAF and AMCA and other factors that I can't even imagine.
 
Only two digit for Rafale airforce vertion? Not gonna cross 100+ number?

But neither did I. I'd heard that 300 Rafales would be a nightmare for China, but that was before this site was created, say 5 years ago, so maybe today it would just be an annoyance? On the other hand, I've heard you say that 200 would be needed, and I've heard that to get an assembly line in India you'd have to order 100 in one go.
So, in my opinion, we need an assembly line to open up the possibilities, knowing that the number produced will depend on events: the speed of production of national programmes, the success or otherwise of the competition, the satisfaction of the IAF and the interest in the evolution of the Rafale programme, exports from India, cooperation with France on the SCAF and AMCA and other factors that I can't even imagine.

90 jets are necessary to start a full production line, for full ToT (50% minimum) to be a possibility. So that's 2 squadrons with kit assembly and 3 squadrons with full production. A final assembly line can be set up with lesser numbers.

The comment about 300 Rafales was just a passing statement. As per the initial IAF plan, they wanted 123 LCA, 200-250 FGFA, 200 Rafales, 200 Gripen/F-16, 150 less advanced version of the current AMCA (powered with a modified F414). That's a little over 900 jets by 2040. No MKIs by then.

So now, 123 LCAs have become 220. Gripen/F-16 has become LCA Mk2. We retain the MKI fleet instead of FGFA. AMCA stays the same. So the only pending decision left is MRFA.

If a third jet (5th gen) is required, they will just have to manipulate the LCA Mk2 and MRFA numbers. Or increase maximum squadron strength to beyond 45.
 
India, France to expedite Rafale M negotiations after Lok Sabha elections

All things considered, the accelerated talks and heightened cooperation indicate a strong alliance between France and India. In addition to bolstering India's air strength, the Rafale agreement is expected to create the groundwork for a defense ecosystem that is more technologically independent

India, France to expedite Rafale M negotiations after Lok Sabha elections

The agreement between India and France to expedite price discussions for the acquisition of 26 Rafale M (Marine) fighter jets is a big step forward for India’s air defense capability. Both countries have decided to give the agreement top priority following the forthcoming general elections in India, recognizing its significance.

A total of 22 single-seater Rafale M aircraft, built especially for aircraft carrier operations, will be acquired by the Indian Navy from IAC-I and II. Four Rafale B (Marine) twin-seat versions will also be used for pilot training.

The negotiations resulted in significant advancements for India’s long-term defense autonomy beyond the immediate acquisition. An important step toward independence has been taken by France with its commitment to increase the sourcing of Rafale components from India. In order to demonstrate this dedication, the semi-structural airframe for the Rafale will shortly be produced and delivered from Dassault Aviation to DRAL.

France has consented to set up an MRO (Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul) facility for the M-88 engines that power the Rafale planes, further solidifying India’s strategic position. In addition to meeting India’s demands, this facility will act as a regional center for maintaining the engines of other Asian Rafale operators.

All things considered, the accelerated talks and heightened cooperation indicate a strong alliance between France and India. In addition to bolstering India’s air strength, the Rafale agreement is expected to create the groundwork for a defense ecosystem that is more technologically independent.
 
India, France to expedite Rafale M negotiations after Lok Sabha elections

All things considered, the accelerated talks and heightened cooperation indicate a strong alliance between France and India. In addition to bolstering India's air strength, the Rafale agreement is expected to create the groundwork for a defense ecosystem that is more technologically independent

India, France to expedite Rafale M negotiations after Lok Sabha elections

The agreement between India and France to expedite price discussions for the acquisition of 26 Rafale M (Marine) fighter jets is a big step forward for India’s air defense capability. Both countries have decided to give the agreement top priority following the forthcoming general elections in India, recognizing its significance.

A total of 22 single-seater Rafale M aircraft, built especially for aircraft carrier operations, will be acquired by the Indian Navy from IAC-I and II. Four Rafale B (Marine) twin-seat versions will also be used for pilot training.

The negotiations resulted in significant advancements for India’s long-term defense autonomy beyond the immediate acquisition. An important step toward independence has been taken by France with its commitment to increase the sourcing of Rafale components from India. In order to demonstrate this dedication, the semi-structural airframe for the Rafale will shortly be produced and delivered from Dassault Aviation to DRAL.

France has consented to set up an MRO (Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul) facility for the M-88 engines that power the Rafale planes, further solidifying India’s strategic position. In addition to meeting India’s demands, this facility will act as a regional center for maintaining the engines of other Asian Rafale operators.

All things considered, the accelerated talks and heightened cooperation indicate a strong alliance between France and India. In addition to bolstering India’s air strength, the Rafale agreement is expected to create the groundwork for a defense ecosystem that is more technologically independent.

So back to 22+4.