MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 38 15.3%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 193 77.5%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 4 1.6%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.4%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 11 4.4%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 9 3.6%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • Total voters
    249
That's a bold claim you make of what Rafale did without any source especially since more than one IAF fighter got shot down including a Rafale.
Nice free flowing intelligent conversation here till I came to this post.

Feb 2019 , India claims to have shot down a Viper. Paxtan + the west especially Amerimutts - where's your proof , India ?

May 2025 , Paxtan claims to have shot down 5 Indian FAs including 3 Rafales . Paxtan + the west especially Amerimutts - where's your proof , India ?

The worst part is a good number of people echoing this view anywhere on SM would be our own. I mean there must be something inherently defeatist in our psyche that prompts us to take a dump on our own side , repeatedly , including out here.

You can actually pin point handles indulging in such behaviour repeatedly over a period of time including now . I mean there's a difference between indulging in speculation once in a while & leaving it at that but repeatedly ?

I say this coz we've seen the Paxtani psyche at work. No loss is admitted no defeat is final. Then there's us .
 
Few squadrons of F-35 Block 4(with ECU) and Su-57M are definitely needed to take on PLAAF.

Neither of them fit in anymore.

The F-35 is already underpowered, and will see a serious drop in thrust over the Himalayas. For example, Mig-29UPG may have 83 kN of power, but it's closer to 75 kN in Indian hot conditions and even worse in the Himalayas. The F-35's will drop big time. We need a 25T engine on it.

As for Su-57, Russia is currently a hot potato for imports. A lot of the stuff we need currently is from the West, like F414 and AMCA's engine. We cannot buy anything new from Russia until the main Western imports are completed. In any case, generic imports from Russia has come to an end, it's practically official govt policy now.

Anyway, we can't afford to play to PLAAF's strengths with our economy. In order to fight PLAAF, we will need 400 Rafale + AMCA or about 1000 Su-57s. The math doesn't work out for us by using heavies. Kinda like we can't win a car race with a cheaper car, but we can buy a better performing motorcycle to win the race. So what matters is winning the race.
 
I think it's a clear shoot down mate. Chinese gear is entirely comparable to American. Or better.

It's too far for it to be shot down, and the jet was withdrawing, so missile range would be very tiny in tail-chase mode. And we know PAF never crossed the border to have given chase.
 
I kinda disagree, it's quite disrespectful to equate the capabilities of the F-15EX with the J-10C & Viper. If the F-15EX were that bad, Poland & Israel, which notably already have access to the F-35, wouldn't be buying it. And regarding radar, using GaN doesn't always mean it's better. If we use this logic, does it mean the PhantomStrike radar on the FA-50 is better than the APG-81 or RBE2 radar?

The most important thing is its overall power output, and the radar on the F-15EX is almost twice as powerful as those on the J-10C, Viper, or SHB3.

And EPAWSS is not a joke, even in the latest Pentagon release, the F-15EX is said to be effective in facing 5th generation fighter threats.

In my opinion, based on ranking, it's F-15EX > Rafale F4 > SHB3 > Viper > J-10C.

The Israelis and Polish are buying the F-15EX for its long range and high payload and not for its radar. The F-35's radar is a bit smaller but still superior.

I read the Pentagon report, it's not what people are saying. The report is being misquoted. The radar performed to optimal capacity against 4th gen targets and the EPAWSS could perform well against 5th gen targets. I've also read the interview of the APG-82's radar designer. It's the same old analog radar that's only been upgraded with 2 extra receiver channels. By the Chinese perspective, that's a generation behind.

So the F-35's radar is a step ahead, but still inferior to what the Chinese are operating. Hence the upgrade to APG-85 next year. But the APG-82 is pretty much in the same category as the older analog RBE2 AESA introduced in 2012. It's been designed as a low-budget jet.

American propaganda is stronger than people think. Once you get down to the details, you can break it apart.

The benchmark for radars is simple today. You hear GaAs, that's acceptable. Big, small, doesn't matter. What matters is analog or digital. Analog is passe/outdated, digital is current standard. You hear GaN-on-SiC, that's advanced, and it's your minimum entry level advanced. You hear GaN-on-diamond, that's bleeding edge and the standard to meet.

Most of the world is still at analog today, very few have entered digital. The Chinese were at SiC and have very likely already moved to diamond (deeper pockets), the French have skipped SiC to diamond on Rafale F5 as have the Americans with the APG-85. Probably the British as well with their new ECRS Mk2. DRDO has SiC and is working on diamond (Uttam to Virupaksha, just guessing).

So the F-15 isn't breaking any records with its GaAs radar. And SH has been using GaN in its EW suite since 2016-20. European and Israeli EW suites have also been using GaN for quite some time now. India as well.
 
It's too far for it to be shot down, and the jet was withdrawing, so missile range would be very tiny in tail-chase mode. And we know PAF never crossed the border to have given chase.
We don't know the range of the PL-15. Isn't the debris in the range of that airbase/rafale too?
 
The Israelis and Polish are buying the F-15EX for its long range and high payload and not for its radar. The F-35's radar is a bit smaller but still superior.

I read the Pentagon report, it's not what people are saying. The report is being misquoted. The radar performed to optimal capacity against 4th gen targets and the EPAWSS could perform well against 5th gen targets. I've also read the interview of the APG-82's radar designer. It's the same old analog radar that's only been upgraded with 2 extra receiver channels. By the Chinese perspective, that's a generation behind.

So the F-35's radar is a step ahead, but still inferior to what the Chinese are operating. Hence the upgrade to APG-85 next year. But the APG-82 is pretty much in the same category as the older analog RBE2 AESA introduced in 2012. It's been designed as a low-budget jet.

American propaganda is stronger than people think. Once you get down to the details, you can break it apart.

The benchmark for radars is simple today. You hear GaAs, that's acceptable. Big, small, doesn't matter. What matters is analog or digital. Analog is passe/outdated, digital is current standard. You hear GaN-on-SiC, that's advanced, and it's your minimum entry level advanced. You hear GaN-on-diamond, that's bleeding edge and the standard to meet.

Most of the world is still at analog today, very few have entered digital. The Chinese were at SiC and have very likely already moved to diamond (deeper pockets), the French have skipped SiC to diamond on Rafale F5 as have the Americans with the APG-85. Probably the British as well with their new ECRS Mk2. DRDO has SiC and is working on diamond (Uttam to Virupaksha, just guessing).

So the F-15 isn't breaking any records with its GaAs radar. And SH has been using GaN in its EW suite since 2016-20. European and Israeli EW suites have also been using GaN for quite some time now. India as well.
No, that wasn't a specific test for EPAWSS, it was an overall performance evaluation of the F-15EX, and it was said to be effective against 5th generation fighter threats.
1000037986.jpg

As for the radar, I still think the most important thing is the overall power output.

Regarding the APG-82 radar, there's an interesting report that says, "The APG-82(V)1 provides the USAF with the most advanced 5th Generation Radar system, which increases system reliability as well as aircraft-aircrew effectiveness and survivability".
Source

In addition, the ADCP II installed on the F-15EX is the world's fastest mission computer at 87 gigaflops, surpassing even the F-35's mission computer, which is only 75 gigaflops.

Based on the above data and claims, it's not an exaggeration to say that the F-15EX is the best 4.5 generation fighter in the world.
 
No, that wasn't a specific test for EPAWSS, it was an overall performance evaluation of the F-15EX, and it was said to be effective against 5th generation fighter threats.
View attachment 42979

As for the radar, I still think the most important thing is the overall power output.

Regarding the APG-82 radar, there's an interesting report that says, "The APG-82(V)1 provides the USAF with the most advanced 5th Generation Radar system, which increases system reliability as well as aircraft-aircrew effectiveness and survivability".
Source

In addition, the ADCP II installed on the F-15EX is the world's fastest mission computer at 87 gigaflops, surpassing even the F-35's mission computer, which is only 75 gigaflops.

Based on the above data and claims, it's not an exaggeration to say that the F-15EX is the best 4.5 generation fighter in the world.
Can F-15EX defeat Rafale in dogfights? Nope.

Can F-15EX defeat Rafale in BVR? Nope.

Can F-15EX penetrate contested airspace and break enemy advance A2/AD network(like what Rafale did two days ago)? Nope.

Can F-15EX play hide n seek with enemy sensors better than Rafale? Nope.

No matter how you spin it, Rafale is by far the best 4.5 gen jet ever designed. Period.
Neither of them fit in anymore.

The F-35 is already underpowered, and will see a serious drop in thrust over the Himalayas. For example, Mig-29UPG may have 83 kN of power, but it's closer to 75 kN in Indian hot conditions and even worse in the Himalayas. The F-35's will drop big time. We need a 25T engine on it.

As for Su-57, Russia is currently a hot potato for imports. A lot of the stuff we need currently is from the West, like F414 and AMCA's engine. We cannot buy anything new from Russia until the main Western imports are completed. In any case, generic imports from Russia has come to an end, it's practically official govt policy now.

Anyway, we can't afford to play to PLAAF's strengths with our economy. In order to fight PLAAF, we will need 400 Rafale + AMCA or about 1000 Su-57s. The math doesn't work out for us by using heavies. Kinda like we can't win a car race with a cheaper car, but we can buy a better performing motorcycle to win the race. So what matters is winning the race.
We need F-35 Block 4 at least as a reference for our future VLO fighters. Su-60MKI is required to take on PLAAF in the 2030s. Without it we'll suffer too much attrition against the Chinese.
 
We don't know the range of the PL-15. Isn't the debris in the range of that airbase/rafale too?

When the target is receding, the missile's range drops by multiple times. The crash site is 100 km away. The NEZ of P-15 against a head-on target is no more than 45-50 km. Less than half that against a receding target. And the base is 90 km away from the border, and even greater if PAF CAP is at 50 km from border.

Anyway, it's possible the M88 video is a deep fake.


There's no damage to the ground, no crater, no burns, no drag marks, it's like it's been placed there. Even the foliage under the engine seems the same as what's around it. All that should have disappeared. Let's not forget that's the top soil of a farm, it should have dug into the mud. And GoI has confirmed that no aircraft were shot down on our side on the first day too.

Plus it's been almost 2 days and there's no other confirmation video, especially for the tail number. It should have become available by now.

So the news is very likely fake.

@vstol Jockey @LX1111
 
Can F-15EX defeat Rafale in dogfights? Nope.

Can F-15EX defeat Rafale in BVR? Nope.

Can F-15EX penetrate contested airspace and break enemy advance A2/AD network(like what Rafale did two days ago)? Nope.

Can F-15EX play hide n seek with enemy sensors better than Rafale? Nope.
J-10 literally proved that. F-15EX would be easily handle the rafale with the superior radar and long range stick. The spectra is not some super ew wunderbar as claimed. It's a decent Electronic warfare system. Most likely the Saab erieyes or zdk-03 did track our Rafales. That's why the pl-15 could have been datalinked.
 
No, that wasn't a specific test for EPAWSS, it was an overall performance evaluation of the F-15EX, and it was said to be effective against 5th generation fighter threats.
View attachment 42979

I'd suggest reading the report yourself. It's available.

As for the radar, I still think the most important thing is the overall power output.

No. Definitely not.

Irbis has more power than APG-77 and APG-81.

Regarding the APG-82 radar, there's an interesting report that says, "The APG-82(V)1 provides the USAF with the most advanced 5th Generation Radar system, which increases system reliability as well as aircraft-aircrew effectiveness and survivability".
Source

That's called propaganda. There is no basis for those words.

Even the USAF says they are willing to buy F-15s only 'cause the overall cost is cheaper than an F-35, and they wanna maintain their 72 jets a year goal, which is not possible with the F-35 alone.
https://defenseconference.aviationw...EM_System_Sustainment_Upgrades-RTX_APG-82.pdf
In addition, the ADCP II installed on the F-15EX is the world's fastest mission computer at 87 gigaflops, surpassing even the F-35's mission computer, which is only 75 gigaflops.

There's nothing impressive about that. PS5 manages 10.28 teraflops.

The F-35's new ICP is 25 times faster than its old one. That's 1.87 TFLOPs based on your number.

Based on the above data and claims, it's not an exaggeration to say that the F-15EX is the best 4.5 generation fighter in the world.

Only in terms of payload. It's the best American 4.5th gen in terms of avionics. But not anywhere close to the rest of the world. Modernize a Flanker to the same level, the F-15EX will have been significantly surpassed.

The F-15EX can carry 15.5T of fuel; internal, CFT, and 3 tanks. Su-35S can carry that much with just 2 tanks and quite comfortably outrange it. LCA Mk2 and Gripen E significantly surpass the F-15EX on internal fuel. It has the same fuel fraction as the LCA Mk1 and Gripen C.

It's basically a tactical bomber 'cause it's only useful with its CFTs on, and with some amounts of compromised fighter agility and a decent radar. Its only saving grace is its EW suite, which is advanced by today's standards. The software the EW suite runs on is definitely good, but everybody's gonna catch up in a few years.
 
We need F-35 Block 4 at least as a reference for our future VLO fighters.

It won't give us that. Anyway Ghatak will be more advanced than F-35 in stealth. AMCA too will have new features not found in the F-35.

Su-60MKI is required to take on PLAAF in the 2030s. Without it we'll suffer too much attrition against the Chinese.

We can't afford the numbers necessary for that. We can't play the same game until the 2040s. We have to do things like what the Swedes planned against the Soviets. After 2040, yeah, we will have the money.
 
It won't give us that. Anyway Ghatak will be more advanced than F-35 in stealth. AMCA too will have new features not found in the F-35.



We can't afford the numbers necessary for that. We can't play the same game until the 2040s. We have to do things like what the Swedes planned against the Soviets. After 2040, yeah, we will have the money.
We can easily afford a 1000+ 4.5 gen 5 gen fighters.
 
I'd suggest reading the report yourself. It's available.
Nah, that report is on the page about the F-15EX (pages 320-323), while the report about the specific capabilities of the EPAWSS is on pages 316-319).
Source

No. Definitely not.

Irbis has more power than APG-77 and APG-81.
The comparison is highly irrelevant. The Irbis-E is a PESA radar, its technological leap is very far from the AESA radar, while the difference between GaAs & GaN is not too significant. The comparison factor is often just a matter of cost efficiency or weight of the radar, as in the case of the PhantomStrike, which was designed to provide SABR capabilities with less weight and cost, or the APG-79(v)4 radar, which is only for legacy Hornet, not the Super Hornet.
Again, the goal is to achieve the "same" capability as the Super Hornet radar, but with less weight and cost.

That's called propaganda. There is no basis for those words.

Even the USAF says they are willing to buy F-15s only 'cause the overall cost is cheaper than an F-35, and they wanna maintain their 72 jets a year goal, which is not possible with the F-35 alone.
https://defenseconference.aviationw...EM_System_Sustainment_Upgrades-RTX_APG-82.pdf
I don't think this is propaganda, because only this report says so, there is no propaganda movement, for example, to get this information to appear in other news media.

There's nothing impressive about that. PS5 manages 10.28 teraflops.

The F-35's new ICP is 25 times faster than its old one. That's 1.87 TFLOPs based on your number.
Comparing the power of a fighter jet mission computer to a console is completely irrelevant. Computing on a fighter jet is much more complex, and frankly, the 75 gigaflops figure for the F-35 is not a confirmed number. But what is clear is that, at least in 2018, the ADCP II has been confirmed to outperform all the fighters in the world, including Rafale, EFT, F-35, etc.

And the role of the mission system should not be underestimated, it is the brain of the fighter jet. The faster it is, the better.

Only in terms of payload. It's the best American 4.5th gen in terms of avionics. But not anywhere close to the rest of the world. Modernize a Flanker to the same level, the F-15EX will have been significantly surpassed.
After all, the Pentagon has confirmed that the EX is on par with 5th generation fighters. Not sure about the others.

The F-15EX can carry 15.5T of fuel; internal, CFT, and 3 tanks. Su-35S can carry that much with just 2 tanks and quite comfortably outrange it. LCA Mk2 and Gripen E significantly surpass the F-15EX on internal fuel. It has the same fuel fraction as the LCA Mk1 and Gripen C.
Nah, the internal fuel of the F-15EX is 6.1 tons, that's twice as much as the Gripen E and LCA MK2 (3.4 tons).
 
  • Like
Reactions: _Anonymous_
I think it's time we start considering black operations and incentivise the ttp, afghan taliban and balochis to attack and take control.
 
In term of EW Suite or Aerodynamics or both?

Ghatak's stealth will be greater than the F-35. But it's designed more around the B-21's capabilities, so its performance will be somewhat lesser than a regular fighter. Maybe 5G or so, and subsonic. Its program goal is higher than Neuron. While Neuron will have a man-in-the-loop, Ghatak's human operator will act as an overseer rather than a control operator. Meaning, the level autonomy in it will be a level higher. It will naturally carry advanced electronics, but more importantly a high throughput datalink and satlink to prosecute its mission independently from a fighter jet and out of LoS.

AMCA will have capabilities that are a step up from the F-22 and F-35. Basically, F-35 class stealth with F-22 class performance. But it will also have a higher fuel fraction than the F-22 and more space for electronics. It will have FBL, an electronic pilot, AI/ML and so on. Its EW suite will be a generation ahead of what's going into the Rafale. Integration with a global ELINT satellite system will give it next gen passive tracking. It will be supported by other EO/IR/SAR satellites too. We will be lauching several hundred satellites for that purpose over the next 5-10 years. They will be exploited by LCA Mk2 and MKI MLU before AMCA so the networking technologies going into AMCA will be mature. The goal is to put the entire planet under real-time surveillance.
 
Nah, that report is on the page about the F-15EX (pages 320-323), while the report about the specific capabilities of the EPAWSS is on pages 316-319).
Source

Against the levelof threat tested, the F-15EX isoperationally effective in all itsair superiority roles, includingdefensive and offensive counter-airagainst surrogate fifth-generationadversary aircraft, as well as basicair-to-ground capability against thetested threats. The F-15EX wasable to detect and track all threatsat advantageous ranges, useonboard and off-board systems toidentify them, and deliver weaponswhile surviving.

That's a 4th gen aircraft pretending to be an enemy 5th gen.

As part of offensive anddefensive counter-air missions,various fourth- and fifth-generationAir Force and Navy aircraft actedas threat surrogates against theEPAWSS-equipped F-15s.

Here, they mention both types acting as surrogates, which I'm fine with, 'cause it was an EW test.

If the F-15EX showed extraordinary capabilities against the F-35, then it's the F-35 that's in trouble globally. The F-15EX is quite generic today.

The USAF is not expecting the F-15EX to fight J-20s. They are planning on deploying 36 to Japan for its tactical payload, the ability to carry certain types of very heavy bombs and missiles that the F-22 and F-35 cannot, like the GBU-72 and HACM. The advanced EW suite is meant to keep it alive.

The comparison is highly irrelevant. The Irbis-E is a PESA radar, its technological leap is very far from the AESA radar, while the difference between GaAs & GaN is not too significant. The comparison factor is often just a matter of cost efficiency or weight of the radar, as in the case of the PhantomStrike, which was designed to provide SABR capabilities with less weight and cost, or the APG-79(v)4 radar, which is only for legacy Hornet, not the Super Hornet.
Again, the goal is to achieve the "same" capability as the Super Hornet radar, but with less weight and cost.

You don't seem to know much about radars, so here goes. The Irbis-E has 2 transmitters and 4 receiver channels. While its only drawback is using phase shifters for beam steering, its baseline performance is superior to any AESA radar which has just 2 receiver channels. It means the Irbis-E has more multi-function capabilities than a standard AESA radar, ie, the APG-60, APG-63v3, and APG-77v1, which have just 2 receivers. The Americans later developed the SABR and RACR with options for 4 and an upgrade to 6 receivers. This was introduced on APG-63v3 along with the APG-79's backend to create the F-15EX's APG-82. So all they did is add 2 additional receivers and the SH's signal processor to the APG-63v3. That's all it is. In most functions, it's very similar to the Irbis-E 'cause it has the same amount of receivers. The AESA has some extra software features that make it better, plus it's newer compared to at 15-year-old radar, but in terms of raw performance, both are similar.

With each receiver, you get to perform a function. So with one you could do track while scan. With a second one you could lock-on. With a third, you can suppress side lobes. With the fourth you can track ground targets. With a fifth you can perform CW. With a sixth, EW. And so on. But this is an analog system. So both analog AESA and PESA can do almost the same things.

The S-400 radar system is PESA. Each radar has multiple transmitters and receivers, to the point where a single piddly little fighter cannot defeat it. You need specialized EA aircraft like the Growler with NGJ or the the F-35's radar even if against a limited X band. Or just stealth. And an S-400 site has many radars doing multiple things at the same time. That's why PESA is still competitive. The difficulty of getting through with EW alone is why the US worked so hard on stealth.

With a digital antenna, you get to have any number of receivers as you want. You could have a few dozen, where each LRU or plank can have its own receiver, so you could have 12 or 24 or whatever. Or you could have 1 receiver for each TRM, which is a step below the ultimate form of a digital antenna, so 1000 TRMs with 1000 receivers. The ultimate one is an antenna that can simultaneously transmit and receive, called a STAR antenna. I don't think we are there yet, at least as a flying specimen. This is called a digital radar. Uttam and the new RBE2 AESA are examples. So now both GaAs and GaN radars are being designed with digital antennas.

As for GaAs and GaN, the difference is heaven and earth. GaAs' thermal conductivity, size, operating temperature, sensitivity, and bandwidth are extremely low compared to GaN. Forget conductivity, size, sensitivity, or temp, due to the bandwidth difference alone GaN makes GaAs completely obsolete. For example, GaN can work at 100-200% of its center frequency, which means if your antenna can do 8-12 GHz, it can form a signal across that entire bandwidth (ultra-wideband). GaAs can only do 25-50% (wideband). Below 25% is narrowband, most radars are here. So if you use a single GaAs antenna to detect a UWB signal, it will lose pretty much all of the data. It won't even be able to copy the entire signal. GaN makes everything below it obsolete.

So the ultimate one will be GaN-on-diamond with STAR antenna design before the radar undergoes its next physical evolution after mechanical scan.

To sum it up, PESA is competitive with analog AESA. Digital AESA is the next level. GaN-on-diamond is the place to be.

Now how advanced do you think the F-15EX's analog GaAs radar will be compared to a GaN-on-diamond digital array on the F-35, Rafale F5, J-20B etc?

I don't think this is propaganda, because only this report says so, there is no propaganda movement, for example, to get this information to appear in other news media.

Based on your newfound knowledge, what do you think about such a claim?

Comparing the power of a fighter jet mission computer to a console is completely irrelevant. Computing on a fighter jet is much more complex, and frankly, the 75 gigaflops figure for the F-35 is not a confirmed number. But what is clear is that, at least in 2018, the ADCP II has been confirmed to outperform all the fighters in the world, including Rafale, EFT, F-35, etc.

The PS5 uses all that power for graphics, while the F-35 uses it for both. The difference is you posted a number for both F-15EX and F-35, but the F-35 has gone up by a significant number. The PS5 example was to illustrate the fact that you can take computing to any point you want, based on the need. And the F-35 needs multiple times more processing than the F-15EX.

Nah, the internal fuel of the F-15EX is 6.1 tons, that's twice as much as the Gripen E and LCA MK2 (3.4 tons).

Yeah, but that fuel is carrying how much weight and powering how many engines?

There's something called fuel fraction. It's calculated by dividing the weight of the fuel by the sum of the weight of the aircraft and fuel.

LCA Mk2 weighs 7.8T, fuel 3.4T, so FF is 0.3.
F-15EX weighs 16T, carries 6T of fuel, so FF is 0.27.
Similarly AMCA is 0.35 (probably gone up after a redesign). And the F-35A's is 0.38. F-22 is at 0.29.

Now LCA Mk1 is at 0.27. Mig-29S is at 0.24. So this is where the F-15EX is at. And with two high-thrust engines, its range with just internal fuel is tactically useless. That's why it has to carry CFTs and external tanks to be useful. Its real payload is actually quite small 'cause it's carrying 15.5T of fuel just to be as useful as an LCA Mk2. That's why its only useful ability is its large centerline payload where it can sling a heavy weapon.

Su-35's FF is 0.38. Su-57's is probably well above 0.4. The F-15EX can't fight these jets. And MKI MLU will be leagues ahead.
 
When the target is receding, the missile's range drops by multiple times. The crash site is 100 km away. The NEZ of P-15 against a head-on target is no more than 45-50 km. Less than half that against a receding target. And the base is 90 km away from the border, and even greater if PAF CAP is at 50 km from border.

Anyway, it's possible the M88 video is a deep fake.


There's no damage to the ground, no crater, no burns, no drag marks, it's like it's been placed there. Even the foliage under the engine seems the same as what's around it. All that should have disappeared. Let's not forget that's the top soil of a farm, it should have dug into the mud. And GoI has confirmed that no aircraft were shot down on our side on the first day too.

Plus it's been almost 2 days and there's no other confirmation video, especially for the tail number. It should have become available by now.

So the news is very likely fake.

@vstol Jockey @LX1111
Do you have any evidence that the range of the PL-15 is only 40-50 kilometers when chasing from behind? Besides, do you have any evidence that the Rafale fighter jet was shot down while fleeing?
I think that in the face of the PL-15E with an AESA guide head, the missile warning system of the Rafale is very likely not functioning at all
If we follow that video, the Rafale fighter jet is very likely to have been shot down by the J10C at high altitude during the takeoff stage. At that time, the PL15 had a huge advantage in altitude and speed, and its range might have been very long
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Haha
Reactions: South block
Honestly, ask yourself, don't you know why we can't see all the wreckage now? Everyone knows that the Indians have perfect news control, and to be honest, it's good, better than Pakistan and Russia, and second only to Ukraine.
But that's no reason for you to fool yourself.
It is even doubtful whether this is India's total loss. If, as in 1962, a few planes had gone down in the uninhabited valleys of Kashmir, we might never have found out.
As for whether the Indian government will release the real details? Anyone with a little bit of rationality knows that it will not. Just like the Kalwan Valley conflict, if you believe the Indian government's statement, how can you explain so many photos and videos showing so many soldiers being captured?
Indian govt didn’t make any statement you chini. They said all operational details will be given after it’s over. Galwan valley we gave clear count of fatalities but idiots like you actually believed that there is no Han causality. I mean imagine the foolishness to believe that. Then after months and weeks we saw graves started showing up. So, thats your standard, chill.

So, don’t be a *** and wait. You and your 50 cent army haven’t discovered anything new. Coming up with 12 year old images is laughable. Don’t get banned with stupid posts.