F-35 could be the the doom for IACCS and AFNET. Thankfully both IAF and GOI are smart enough. That's why Su-57 has been selected as our interim 5th gen. How much? Time will tell.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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The plaaf has about 500+ flankers from su-35,su30mkk to j-11 and j-16.Instead of SU 57 , we should keep manufacturing SU 30 and MODIFY them for BRAHMOS
Just imagine 100 SU 30 firing 100 BRAHMOS together
And 100 PRALAY missiles launched from the Ground
Bye Bye PAF
If we can get BRAHMOS NG soon on Tejas , then that would be a huge advantage
Most members already have seen my wishlist and it's now much more needed.
We need
450 su-30 mki/mki2
300 Rafales
600 Tejas mk1a,mk1b,mk1c
400 Tejas mk2
272 su-57
80 F-35
12 Netra
3-6 E-7 wedgetails
4 Phalcons
That's the need for the 2.5 front war.
Pradhan Mantri Har ghar pilot yojna to be launched soon
Whom do you blame for that ? The Mk-1a negotiations with HAL took 4 years to wrap up & for the order to be released. Mk-2 received funds ~ 3 years after CCS approval , Kaveri wasn't funded after the program was shut down ~ 2014 , the entire program still lacks test facilities in spite of the request being forwarded by GTRE to the MoD years ago , HTFE & HTSE programs have zero involvement of the IAF ,ditto for CATS Warrior etc - all of which are being funded by the much abused & reviled HAL with the result the programs are meandering .
I could go on with a laundry list . Trust you get the drift.
I've highlighted how we could get the Su-57 in the above post.
We're not getting the F-35 . Not now , not ever. If there was a slim chance we'd have gotten it earlier , Trump killed it.
Buying US jets is a suicide. They won't even allow us to use F-35 against Pakistan. The reason they want our entire defence ecosystem to change is because we are their counter against China. Trust me, India and China fighting and destroying each other would be Uncle Sam's biggest wet dream. These frauds even helped Pakistan by providing live satellite feed during the recent skirmish. When would Indians realize that our biggest enemy isn't Pak or China but US? It has always been like that since 1947.
So coax, pander and even deal with the devil(US), just don't sell your soul to him(by buying their fighter jets). Period.
I was aware that the Chinese provided live sat feed to the Porks. Anywhere I can read about US doing that during Op Sindoor? Or is it another one from your "trust me bro
" sources? Considering we've got a intel sharing deal with the US (BECA), I find your claim slightly improbable, hence my question. (In the right thread to avoid further derailing this one).That'd be giving their military birthing rights on our bases, which isn't happening in a million years. Think even the Americans know that.
Whaaaaaaat?
Here is an an article that clearly states per Army chief China provided the live feed. How did this get twisted from China into US?
Operation Sindoor: China shared live data on India assets with Pak & Turkey provided drones, says Army deputy chief; anti-India axis exposed
China directly attacks Indian sovereignty. China conquered Aksai Chin. Claims AP is a core region of China. Just 2 days ago China said they will never give up Shaksgam. In fact recently they have started making maps that show claims all the way to Ganga. Remind me which Indian sovereign territory US is claiming as its own?
China and India have been to war. You can barely count on one hand how long it has been since the Chinese have directly killed Indians on the Northern front. Remind me when the US directly killed an Indian soldier in combat?
I have no doubt the US interferes even within India to secure its interests. But do you honestly believe China interferes less compared to the US? That in spite of all the facts stated here that China is the lesser threat?
Rafale is the main and only fighter of France ..forget getting source codes.. India also won't give if it's our only fighter...unless there is specific watered down version.
We should be satisfied if we.get.our weapons and network integrated with it ..
No point in asking for source codes and in extention indigenous upgrade. France wil definitely control it , atleast until SCAF gets inducted .
I hope we get whatever is missed in this deal to our Rafale inspired TEDBF.
We should be satisfied if we.get.our weapons and network integrated with it ..
No point in asking for source codes and in extention indigenous upgrade. France wil definitely control it , atleast until SCAF gets inducted .
I hope we get whatever is missed in this deal to our Rafale inspired TEDBF.
True. So many people who keep on harping about "source code access" as if it's their birthright, forget that such things are closely guarded and that's what keep the OEMs in business. Tomorrow when India exports fighter jets to friendly nations, it too won't be giving out source code access to the buyer who comes flinging a fat check. Even the Russians won't, and they're offering a watered down Su-57E, not Su-57M with ALF-51F.
Agreed. As long as we get to integrate our own weapons without enlisting their help after this mega deal, it should be fine.
IMO all this boils down to two questions :
Overall, we are spending significant portion of IAF's capex on a platform which will not give us any significant advantage against our prime adversary and the deal will eat a significant portion of our capex, preventing us from mass induction of our critical indigenous programs. This is beyond the point that the jets are priced exorbitantly and nor are we receiving any future tech or the source code. Bad deal IMO.
If we are going to cripple our capex for any platform, that platform should be capable of fighting effectively against our biggest threat. Otherwise, in future we will neither have the money to purhase nor have a platform to fight against the Chinese.
- If we are spending $36 billion (which is a humungous amount of money for us) 4th gen fighter aircraft, is it capable of fighting against more than 400 5th gen jets fielded by us against our primer adversary? We can defeat Pakistan right now with whatever weapons we have, even if they get 1 squadron of 5th gen fighters, through sheer attrition. Disadvantage in BVRAAM can be dealt with by integrating Astra Mk2 and inducting Meteors in large numbers. But is the Rafale capable of fighting against the J-20 and J-35s which the Chinese will field in large numbers? I honestly think the answer is no.
- Will this large deal eat into our capex for indigenous programs? Going by the track record of IAF of rejecting indigenous platforms even for few deficiencies, I am sure IAF will cite "lack of capex / fund crunch" to not induct Tejas Mk2 in scale. Tejas Mk2 is a critical platform for maturity of Indian fighter aviation industry. It will result in significant creation of industrial and manufacturing base and is the pathway to AMCA. India cannot afford to not mass induct Tejas Mk2 at scale. We must induct at least 250 Tejas Mk2.
Overall, we are spending significant portion of IAF's capex on a platform which will not give us any significant advantage against our prime adversary and the deal will eat a significant portion of our capex, preventing us from mass induction of our critical indigenous programs. This is beyond the point that the jets are priced exorbitantly and nor are we receiving any future tech or the source code. Bad deal IMO.
If we are going to cripple our capex for any platform, that platform should be capable of fighting effectively against our biggest threat. Otherwise, in future we will neither have the money to purhase nor have a platform to fight against the Chinese.
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The PLAAF is itself inducting the J-35 to complement the J-20. So, training, maintenance and spares/upgrades will all be sorted out in due course.
How PAF manages 3 parallel fighter progs - J10C, J35 and their new PF-X, (a twin engine JF-17 variant reportedly under dev) remains to be seen.
The truth is the Pakistanis have been looking for a twin-engine strike bird for sometime now.
They need to retire their Mirage-3/5s and the JF-17 is not up to the task. If they had the money, they'd probably have gone in for the EF like their newfound pals BD for parity with India's Rafale.
They ended up with the J-10C because they got it a bargain price of $75m apiece + Chinese financing. They also likely to get new/refurb F-16Vs from the US.
The PAF will likely buy only a limited number of J-35 within the 2030s, before deciding whether to buy more.
The IAF will likely not buy too many Su-57 either as their force structure is already top-heavy with the 270 (+12?) MKIs. Around 40-60 units may be on the cards.
Those who say that we are Not Supporting Indigenous Fighters Should REALISE that the We are Ensuring GE ENGINE SUPPLY by Ignoring SU 57
We have to live with the Reality that CAATSA is a real threat to Tejas programme
When GE 404 and 414 were selected , nobody knew that Russia Ukraine war would happen and CAATSA would be a threat to India
They let the Pakistanis use their f-16's against us. They let the Saudis use their f-15's to bomb Yemenis.
Amreekis don't care as long as you you don't F their geopolitical goals in the long term. Plus we have enough lobbying in DC to actual force the American senate and Pentagon to listen to us.
The only issue is that a lot of leverage the Americans will have against us after we get the planes.
GE 404 license production should have started instead of importing ge-404.
GE-404 has been used as a base to make to multiple planes including f18, fa-50, f-20 tigershark, b1 lancer and even the f117 nighthawk. Why would you not license produce it when even SoKo is license producing them??
All this drama is just for a stopgap that was supposed to be executed a decade ago. Pakistanis already have a near pier airforce.
Tge only reasonable option left is to go for a decapitation strike on paf in the next skirmish, possibly risking losing more fighters without even firing their Air to airs like last time.
Tge only reasonable option left is to go for a decapitation strike on paf in the next skirmish, possibly risking losing more fighters without even firing their Air to airs like last time.
Safran setting up a engine plant, was it reported before ? It could mean M88-4 has been selected for Tejas Mk2. Bloomberg had reported in September 2025, that India was closer to selecting it for Tejas Mk2.
Do not buy anything we cannot put our own mission computers, electronics and sensors on.
The successor of uttam aesa we will have in 2030 is what France will want to have in 2040.
What happens then? We wait for France to catch up so we can update our frontline force?
0% local manufacturing is okay, but 100% control is non negotiable.
The successor of uttam aesa we will have in 2030 is what France will want to have in 2040.
What happens then? We wait for France to catch up so we can update our frontline force?
0% local manufacturing is okay, but 100% control is non negotiable.
There is no such contest for mk2. They will do sone level of local manufacturing and MRO for M88 as part of the deal.
Rafale deal is happening because of the Delays in
MK1A , MK 2 and AMCA
If IAF was assured of timely deliveries there would be no need for Rafale
And above all Mirage 2000 , MIG 29 UPG have become Second Line of Fighters due to their Limitations of Radar and BVR missiles
So SU 30 and Rafales are holding the Fort along with S 400