MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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It was as soon as Block 2 was ready, so it was, for a short time, more advanced than the F-15E. There may have been other political and eocnomic considerations too. Like pre-existing Hornets in Malaysia and Australia. ME purchases make no sense, it's mostly politics. When it came to Canada, the F-15E was old, the EX wasn't available, they were already flying Hornets. Germany wanted a jet that can penetrate airspace for nuclear strike, the F-15E is not as capable as the SH here, and cost would have played a part here. Finland too was a pre-existing Hornet customer. Basically, they competed with the SH wherever the jet operated was light to medium, like the F-16 and Hornet. Only their F-15E sales were a success, I suppose thanks to Korea and Singapore.
Lol. How did you do this? Nice April 1st joke btw.you wrong
Lockheed-Martin tente de sortir le Rafale de la compétition colombienne avec 2 offres non sollicitées
Lockheed-Martin tries to get the Rafale out of the Colombian competition with 2 unsolicited bids
10 May 2023
At the end of 2022, Colombian President Gustavo Petro publicly announced that Dassault Aviation's bid of 16 Rafale aircraft had won the competition with the US F-16 and Sweden's Jas-39 Gripen to replace the Colombian Air Force's Kfir. A few days later, the signing of the $3bn contract was announced as imminent. Unfortunately, on 3 January, Bogotá announced the failure of the procedure. Indeed, the Colombian authorities did not expect to order the 16 aircraft at once, but in two batches, the first of which would be 3 to 4 aircraft for just under $700m, to be signed before 31 December to respect the budgetary liberations granted by the parliament. This haste was obviously not to the liking of Dassault, which is used to complex negotiations and preferred to postpone the signature at the risk of losing the contract, rather than commit itself to a poorly calibrated contract.
Nevertheless, the Rafale remained in the race, and could still be adorned with favourable arbitrations from both military and political authorities. Obviously, this hypothesis is far from satisfying Lockheed-Martin, which intends to eject Dassault and its aircraft from the competition. To achieve this, according to the infodefensa.com website, the American aircraft manufacturer has sent Bogota two unsolicited offers. The first is for 24 aircraft, for a total of $4.2 billion and a unit price of $108 million per F-16 Block 70 Viper, while the second seems to be aligned with the French offer with 16 aircraft for $3 billion and a unit price of $112 million per aircraft. The exact scope of the American offer is not known, but it may be assumed that it corresponds to that of the current competition. Furthermore, Lockheed-Martin is proposing delivery of the first three aircraft by 2028, 17 aircraft in 2029 and the remaining four aircraft in 2030.
However, the offers submitted by LM are quite surprising. On the one hand, on the basis of the information transmitted during the spending episode, the American aircraft manufacturer has only aligned itself with the price and schedule of the French offer, which is based on an aircraft that is much more efficient than the F-16V, and which can rely on a twin-engine configuration that provides real added value in terms of security over a country like Colombia. Secondly, in the opinion of the Colombian authorities, the F-16V had disappointed during the evaluation, only the Rafale and the Gripen having satisfied the criteria of the Colombian Air Force. Coming back with the same aircraft seems surprising, especially without trying to put forward, for example, a strong budgetary argument.
The fact remains that, as Washington has shown on several occasions in recent years, the American defence industry can, if necessary, rely on the support of the State Department and the American armed forces to win the decision when the offer itself is not sufficient. Thus, only a few weeks ago, the same Lockheed-Martin implemented a strictly identical strategy to try to get the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen out of the competition, which was then the favourite in the competition to give the Philippine Air Force a real fighter fleet. Once again, Washington implemented a series of measures, including military ones, to keep out its competitor and get Manila to arbitrate in favour of the F-16V. It remains to be seen whether Bogotá and Manila will give in to American pressure and whether European negotiators will be able to put forward convincing arguments to counterbalance it.
Lockheed-Martin tries to get the Rafale out of the Colombian competition with 2 unsolicited bids
10 May 2023
At the end of 2022, Colombian President Gustavo Petro publicly announced that Dassault Aviation's bid of 16 Rafale aircraft had won the competition with the US F-16 and Sweden's Jas-39 Gripen to replace the Colombian Air Force's Kfir. A few days later, the signing of the $3bn contract was announced as imminent. Unfortunately, on 3 January, Bogotá announced the failure of the procedure. Indeed, the Colombian authorities did not expect to order the 16 aircraft at once, but in two batches, the first of which would be 3 to 4 aircraft for just under $700m, to be signed before 31 December to respect the budgetary liberations granted by the parliament. This haste was obviously not to the liking of Dassault, which is used to complex negotiations and preferred to postpone the signature at the risk of losing the contract, rather than commit itself to a poorly calibrated contract.
Nevertheless, the Rafale remained in the race, and could still be adorned with favourable arbitrations from both military and political authorities. Obviously, this hypothesis is far from satisfying Lockheed-Martin, which intends to eject Dassault and its aircraft from the competition. To achieve this, according to the infodefensa.com website, the American aircraft manufacturer has sent Bogota two unsolicited offers. The first is for 24 aircraft, for a total of $4.2 billion and a unit price of $108 million per F-16 Block 70 Viper, while the second seems to be aligned with the French offer with 16 aircraft for $3 billion and a unit price of $112 million per aircraft. The exact scope of the American offer is not known, but it may be assumed that it corresponds to that of the current competition. Furthermore, Lockheed-Martin is proposing delivery of the first three aircraft by 2028, 17 aircraft in 2029 and the remaining four aircraft in 2030.
However, the offers submitted by LM are quite surprising. On the one hand, on the basis of the information transmitted during the spending episode, the American aircraft manufacturer has only aligned itself with the price and schedule of the French offer, which is based on an aircraft that is much more efficient than the F-16V, and which can rely on a twin-engine configuration that provides real added value in terms of security over a country like Colombia. Secondly, in the opinion of the Colombian authorities, the F-16V had disappointed during the evaluation, only the Rafale and the Gripen having satisfied the criteria of the Colombian Air Force. Coming back with the same aircraft seems surprising, especially without trying to put forward, for example, a strong budgetary argument.
The fact remains that, as Washington has shown on several occasions in recent years, the American defence industry can, if necessary, rely on the support of the State Department and the American armed forces to win the decision when the offer itself is not sufficient. Thus, only a few weeks ago, the same Lockheed-Martin implemented a strictly identical strategy to try to get the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen out of the competition, which was then the favourite in the competition to give the Philippine Air Force a real fighter fleet. Once again, Washington implemented a series of measures, including military ones, to keep out its competitor and get Manila to arbitrate in favour of the F-16V. It remains to be seen whether Bogotá and Manila will give in to American pressure and whether European negotiators will be able to put forward convincing arguments to counterbalance it.
MiG-35 mass production with AESA radar finding F-22 at 80 mi
bulgarianmilitary.com
Why isn't India persuing Mig 35 for MRCA ?
Several answers :MiG-35 mass production with AESA radar finding F-22 at 80 mi
Why isn't India persuing Mig 35 for MRCA ?
Mig 35 is only an upgrade of Mig 29. It is not at the technological level of west birds (as all the russian weapons, as clearly seen in Ukraine).
Mig 35 is a commercial failure because too limited vs a Su27/30/35 for exemple.
India wanted a west bird not to depend only on russian planes.
Mig29 of the Indian Navy are a nightmare about availability.
They don't want to put all their eggs in one basket. MRFA= Rafale. Nothing more, nothing less.MiG-35 mass production with AESA radar finding F-22 at 80 mi
Why isn't India persuing Mig 35 for MRCA ?
!!! Where is Herciv, to explain it? The french have the best bribes, but it is added.
Rafale $187m
It's very simple, just quote the entire sentence that explains Lockheed's approach with its F-16 proposal:
And there we see that out of the 3 trillion only 1.792 trillion is for the planes and the rest for making those planes useful, protecting them and maintaining them.
Potential pricing discrepancy or the low production value has bumped up the price of the F-16?
MiG-35 mass production with AESA radar finding F-22 at 80 mi
Why isn't India persuing Mig 35 for MRCA ?
1. Politics. With more than 350 Russian jets opertional in India, there is a need to diversify away from Russia.
2. The jet is based on what's now 50-year-old tech. It's too old for a new purchase. This jet would have been amazing if it was available in the early 2000s, not in the 2020-30s.
3. Its A2A capabilities are inferior to the MKI. Its strike capabilities are practically non-existent, Combat Hawk will do a better job. It's all-round inferior to the MKI, so it's not a capability upgrade at all, which is why it wasn't shortlisted during MMRCA.
4. It's expensive to operate.
This was solved long ago.
Assemblée générale mixte Dassault Aviation : « Il n’y aura pas d’erreur. Nous ne vendrons pas l’avion au prix de la voiture et ils ne vendront pas la voiture au prix de l’avion ! »
L’assemblée générale de Dassault Aviation, ce mardi, a adopté toutes les résolutions, dont le versement d’un dividende de 3 euros. Elle a été l’occasion pour la direction de faire un point sur le début d’année dans les avions de combat et les jets d’affaires et d’éclaircir les interrogations...
investir.lesechos.fr
Rafale not gonna secure this order (i fear). Asper reports, GOI had clubbed engine tech with MRFA & US gonna provide F414 tot to india, so MRFA & naval fighter gonna be F18. I am happy if we induct F18 for navy, but going f18 for IAF will be a terrible mistake.Assemblée générale mixte Dassault Aviation : « Il n’y aura pas d’erreur. Nous ne vendrons pas l’avion au prix de la voiture et ils ne vendront pas la voiture au prix de l’avion ! »
L’assemblée générale de Dassault Aviation, ce mardi, a adopté toutes les résolutions, dont le versement d’un dividende de 3 euros. Elle a été l’occasion pour la direction de faire un point sur le début d’année dans les avions de combat et les jets d’affaires et d’éclaircir les interrogations...