MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 29 12.7%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 180 78.6%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.6%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 4.4%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 8 3.5%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    229
We should go for Rafale second batch(with 2/3 squadrons at least) along with Navy's 26 Rafale. MRCA tender should also be opened for 5th gen fighters. Let both F-35 and Su-57M try their luck.

Air Chief is correct, we require numbers too. Along with ordering more Rafale through gov to gov deal, we should also order extra Tejas MK1A and increase its production to meet our demands.

If IAF looks within then maybe all our solutions for solving 2-front war are well within our reach. Just need good planning and quick reaction. That's it.
 
We should go for Rafale second batch(with 2/3 squadrons at least) along with Navy's 26 Rafale. MRCA tender should also be opened for 5th gen fighters. Let both F-35 and Su-57M try their luck.

Air Chief is correct, we require numbers too. Along with ordering more Rafale through gov to gov deal, we should also order extra Tejas MK1A and increase its production to meet our demands.

If IAF looks within then maybe all our solutions for solving 2-front war are well within our reach. Just need good planning and quick reaction. That's it.
Only 25% of CAPEX can be used on imports.
 
We should order LCA as much as possible now.. Money rotated will be available again for MRFA..
However if order MRFA first, there won't be anything available to order again..

All these LCAMk1A can be kept as additional squads over the sanctioned strength in case our economy increases..

I am not against Rafale.. In fact I am for it..
However for a available budget, first fillin the LCA , if numbers are required.
Only 25% of CAPEX can be used on imports.

How much of Capex is still there, post K9, Atags & Cadet ships?

Talks happening about US Predator drones..
Only 25 days to go..

Macron visit expectations also there.
 
Only 25% of CAPEX can be used on imports.
Yes, but with 2-front war threat looming over us, additional Rafales are required. 36 is just too little, IMO.

Also the payment should be done in installements rather than using all our CAPEX reserve at one go.

More Tejas MK1A is also a smart decision. But order should be given now and production needs to be ramped up. So that by the time Tejas MK2 is ready for production, we already would have aprox. 200 MK1As.

Apparently, the 3-legged Cheetah is hunting far away in the middle-east. Hence, Pakistan and Hanland are well within its clasps;)
 
Yes, but with 2-front war threat looming over us, additional Rafales are required. 36 is just too little, IMO.

Also the payment should be done in installements rather than using all our CAPEX reserve at one go.

More Tejas MK1A is also a smart decision. But order should be given now and production needs to be ramped up. So that by the time Tejas MK2 is ready for production, we already would have aprox. 200 MK1As.

Apparently, the 3-legged Cheetah is hunting far away in the middle-east. Hence, Pakistan and Hanland are well within its clasps;)
IAF top brass and MoD civilians are not good managers. Infact they are probably the worst on the earth.

Pensions are important for everyone.
 
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Yes, but with 2-front war threat looming over us, additional Rafales are required. 36 is just too little, IMO.

Also the payment should be done in installements rather than using all our CAPEX reserve at one go.

More Tejas MK1A is also a smart decision. But order should be given now and production needs to be ramped up. So that by the time Tejas MK2 is ready for production, we already would have aprox. 200 MK1As.

Apparently, the 3-legged Cheetah is hunting far away in the middle-east. Hence, Pakistan and Hanland are well within its clasps;)
Too much is made of the 25% CAPEX . GoI can always waive it in extraordinary circumstances.

After all we've exclusions to the list of import bans issued after the said list comes into effect as well .
 
IAF top brass and MoD civilians are not good managers. Infact they are probably the worst on the earth.

Pensions are important for everyone.
I think you're being too hard on them. They have flaws, but calling them 'worst on the earth"!!...I wouldn't endorse that against my beloved IAF. Just no.
 
I think you're being too hard on them. They have flaws, but calling them 'worst on the earth"!!...I wouldn't endorse that against my beloved IAF. Just no.

We lacked only 1 deficiency in 2019. Casevac capability.

You see any steps for that ?
IAF chief is doing everything but the job he should be doing.
 
A casualty evacuation platform needs to have self protection systems (in India's case an additional LWR system on the top of conventional combo of MAWS+RWR and a CMDS). LWR is desired because unlike other countries we face Pakistan whoes primary MANPAD is Swedish laser based RBS70.

Then the helicopter needs thing like fire suppression system, crash worth seats, traffic collision avoidance systems, etc.

Casevac happens behind the enemy lines. If we had that capability Abhinandans story would have been different.

The Mi17 is useless. It cannot cross even the Pir Panjal with any meaningful load.

We should stick to its out of service date of 2032 and not extend it imo.
 
The first F4.1-standard Rafale was delivered on Thursday 2 March to the Centre d'Expertise Aérienne Militaire at BA 118 in Mont-de-Marsan. A real technological leap forward, which will accompany pilots in tomorrow's high-intensity conflicts.

They should have replaced both the radar and SPECTRA chips from GaAs to GaN. That would have enhanced Rafale's capabilities in both offense and defense several times.
 
They should have replaced both the radar and SPECTRA chips from GaAs to GaN. That would have enhanced Rafale's capabilities in both offense and defense several times.
The GaN has always been planned for F4.2, but now the names of the versions have been changed but we are moving at the speed that was planned:
  • F4.2 is the old F4.1 (all Rafales can be retrofitted to this standard, whereas before this was not envisaged).
  • F4.1 is a new preliminary version
  • The new F4.1 is less ambitious but comes a year earlier.
  • The new F4.2 will arrive next year, i.e. at the same date as the old F4.1
The hardware changes that prevent backwards compatibility will come afterwards, probably in two years, outside the standard, because in France it is the software that defines the standard.
What I mean is that the new F4.2 will be able to handle this new hardware, but either we don't put it in because it's too expensive to reconfigure the aircraft, or we put it in because the aircraft has already been configured for it off the assembly line, but we don't necessarily do it right away because the software standard and the aircraft standard are ahead of the equipment standard which initially was planned for 2025 that is to say in two years.
 

Egyptian Air Force: First Rafale export user to reach 10,000 flight hours


In the presence of senior Egyptian authorities and Dassault Aviation representatives, a ceremony to celebrate the Rafale's 10,000 flight hours was held last week on the operational air base where the Egyptian Air Force's Rafale "Wild Wolves" squadron is stationed.

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Saint-Cloud, France, March 8, 2023 In the presence of senior Egyptian authorities and Dassault Aviation representatives, a ceremony to celebrate the Rafale’s 10,000 flight hours was held last week on the operational air base where the Egyptian Air Force’s Rafale “Wild Wolves” squadron is stationed.

After an initial order in 2015, that made Egypt the Rafale’s first export customer, followed by a second in 2021, the Rafale has now reached a new milestone thanks to the Egyptian Air Force: the first 10,000 flight hours operated by a user other than the French air forces.

This important milestone confirms the Rafale’s technological and operational excellence, and attests to the quality of the training of Egyptian crews received in France. It also demonstrates the effectiveness of the systems and personnel put in place by Dassault Aviation to support the implementation of the aircraft in Egypt. Lastly, it illustrates the great skill of the Egyptian Air Force, which has carried out the transformation of its pilots and mechanics to the Rafale with ease and fluidity.

“Egypt has chosen the Rafale, recognizing its unique ‘game-changer’ character, to ensure its role in full sovereignty as a key player in the regional and international arena, in a demanding geopolitical context. This celebration around the 10,000 flight hours of the Rafale salutes the great mastery of the Egyptian Air Force, the excellence of the Rafale, and honors Dassault Aviation, which has maintained strong relations with Egypt based on trust and commitment for nearly 50 years”, said Eric Trappier, Chairman and CEO of Dassault Aviation
 
Viseur de casque, connectivité, puissance de feu… Comment le Rafale 4.1 s'élève vers la haute intensité

Helmet sights, connectivity, firepower... How the Rafale 4.1 rises to the high intensity

This new standard brings improvements and new capabilities, such as the Scorpion helmet sight and a greater modular air-to-ground weapon capability.

A second F4.1 standard aircraft will be delivered in the next few days, after which the two new generation Rafales will be tested by the pilots of the 1/30 Côte d'Argent squadron.

The operational introduction of this new standard for all the Rafales of the French Air Force and Space Force is envisaged by 2025.

Don't look for any difference: in appearance, the Rafale 4.1 is exactly the same as the current version, the F3-R. The hull is identical," confirms Colonel Christophe, Director of Experiments at the CEAM (Centre d'Expertise Aérienne Militaire), "but it's as if you had taken an old smartphone and downloaded the latest version of the software.

Based at BA 118 in Mont-de-Marsan (Landes), the CEAM took delivery of the very first Rafale 4.1 standard on 2 March. This Rafale B of an old standard had previously been sent to the flight test centre of the French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA) at Istres, which carried out the software transformation. But what does this new version bring to the aircraft?

More firepower from a distance


This version 4.1 brings many improvements, notably to the radar and the self-protection system that protects the aircraft against electromagnetic threats from the outside [Rafale's fire control protection and avoidance system, Spectra]," explains Colonel Christophe. We also have new capabilities, such as the Scorpion helmet sight [developed by Thales], which can point to targets directly with the helmet, just by looking at them. Today, this is done with cockpit interfaces and screens, but now you just have to turn your head to point at targets, in the air or on the ground. This system works via a sensor integrated into the visor, which can see as far as aircraft sensors can see.

Another new feature is the weaponry.

We will be able to use modular air-to-ground weapons [AASM] with a capacity of one tonne, whereas the aircraft can currently only carry a 250 kg AASM bomb. In its current version, the Rafale can carry a one-tonne bomb, but only a GBU-24 (Guided Bomb Unit). The GBU-24 is an American manufacture with a much shorter capacity," explains Colonel Christophe. The AASM is a propelled weapon, which allows for deeper extensions, which will therefore offer greater firepower at a distance.

Having aircraft connected to each other, to drones, to satellites...


The aim of this F4 standard is also to provide new technological building blocks in terms of connectivity. To put it simply, until now our aircraft have been working in isolation," continues the director of experiments. Now, the aim is to have aircraft that work in a connected manner, with other aircraft, drones, satellites... We will also have aircraft capable of guiding the weapons of other aircraft, of putting together the electronic warfare systems of several aircraft. The more we move towards high intensity, and this is what the Ukrainian theatre is showing us, the more we have to adapt our tools, which means working together to have connected sensors and process information in real time.

After receiving this first aircraft "retrofitted" to the F4.1 standard, the CEAM will receive a second one in a few days, but this time a new one, straight from the Dassault factory. This one, in addition to its new version, will have new capabilities and new wiring," said Colonel Christophe. The pilots of the 1/30 Côte d'Argent Fighter and Experimental Squadron will carry out numerous flights with these two aircraft until this summer. Then comes the "adoption" stage. That is to say that all the fighter squadrons of Mont-de-Marsan will in turn fly with this F4.1 standard to make it their own. However, they will not yet be able to go into combat with it.

Around one hundred Rafales to be upgraded

By the end of 2023, the CEAM will complete its recommendations to the General Staff, which will give or not give the green light to have a first "operational capability" with the F4.1 standard. Only at this stage will we be able to launch this new standard in a theatre of operations. The operational launch of the Rafale's full spectrum is expected for the end of 2024, beginning of 2025, according to Colonel Christophe. We are talking about updating the hundred or so Rafales of the French Air Force and Space Agency, in addition to the expected delivery of 40 new aircraft that are to leave the factory. The aim is to have a single fleet with this F4.1 standard.

Other versions are expected. This F4 standard is divided into three sub-categories: 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3," explained Colonel Christophe. We will be able to talk about a 'technological leap' once the entire F4 standard has been adopted. And the story will certainly not end there, since there is already talk of an F5 standard, which could make the transition before the arrival of the Scaf, the Air Combat System of the Future, which is supposed to enter service in 2040, but which may be delayed.
 
parliamentary standing committee recommends to consider buying 5th generation fighterjet


Looks like GoI wants to begin a Su-57 vs F-35/NGAD contest a bit more faster than planned.

It's not misleading, it's an alternative way out for the govt to plan a stopgap program in parallel without political interference from the Opposition.
 
Looking at the threat possessed by the growing J-20 numbers, it's no surprise that government has now woken up. Smart decision in my opinion.
 
Looking at the threat possessed by the growing J-20 numbers, it's no surprise that government has now woken up. Smart decision in my opinion.
GoI has now woken up or IAF has now woken up ? Besides I see no action worth the name on the ground as far as the IAF is concerned to mitigate the situation . Their RFP for MRFA is still in the air . I'm assuming they're handwriting the damn document & have employed the services of a master calligrapher to do so.

I wonder why didn't the PSC take the IAF apart for their threat perception & security analysis w.r.t non inclusion of the 5th Gen FA in their perspective plans for the immediate future as in till 2030 - 32 as well as the tardy progress in the MRFA tender . Somebody needs to stick a damn knife in their sides & twist it hard .
 
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IAF has been shouting on mrfa for the whole of current ACM tenure. But govt on other hand has been oddly silent on the whole situation, suggesting import is not their preference, and it will be done via G2G route only for a much smaller number than required. This much is certain by now. Their focus is on 2024 election probably.
 
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