MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • JSF F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 22 12.1%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 144 79.1%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 4 2.2%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • SH F-18

    Votes: 8 4.4%

  • Total voters
    182

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
9,414
7,046
India
On the one hand we complain about declining squadron strength and XI Jinping making life difficult for us and
On the Other we dont order more planes

Have we got MANY hidden undeclared squadrons 😂

Both GoI and IAF are on the same page with respect to bringing more jets in. But decision making has been quite slow, some because of the govt, some because of the IAF, some because of the scientific community, and so on...

Stuff that should have been completed during UPA was never done. For example, either MRCA or MMRCA should have been signed in the 10-year term under UPA. With the exception of 40 LCA, zero jets were signed under them. FGFA also went nowhere. While the govt failed to deliver jets then, the scientific community failed to deliver the LCA as well. So the impact of the double whammy was felt under the Modi govt.

Under Modi, after the Rafale GTG, we are now working towards Mk1A, extra Mig-29s, MRFA and Mk2. Two of those shouldn't have been in the list. At the very least, Mk1A should have been signed in the first term, but was single-handedly delayed by HAL.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
1,832
2,287
72
France
transition.wifeo.com
Both GoI and IAF are on the same page with respect to bringing more jets in. But decision making has been quite slow, some because of the govt, some because of the IAF, some because of the scientific community, and so on...

Stuff that should have been completed during UPA was never done. For example, either MRCA or MMRCA should have been signed in the 10-year term under UPA. With the exception of 40 LCA, zero jets were signed under them. FGFA also went nowhere. While the govt failed to deliver jets then, the scientific community failed to deliver the LCA as well. So the impact of the double whammy was felt under the Modi govt.

Under Modi, after the Rafale GTG, we are now working towards Mk1A, extra Mig-29s, MRFA and Mk2. Two of those shouldn't have been in the list. At the very least, Mk1A should have been signed in the first term, but was single-handedly delayed by HAL.
HAL is the hidden machinery that transforms normal time into Indian time.
👀
 

raghu1974

Member
Nov 19, 2020
110
80
Phoenix, AZ USA
HAL does time travel backwards.
Until the economy is back on track, I don't see how the orders will be placed. The next budget and defense allocation will give us a better picture if the deal for LCA Mk1A and / or MRCA 2.0 will be signed anytime soon. After all these years of waiting, I no longer hope for an order but resigned to the fact that, it will happen when it happens. But the silver lining is that, with China breathing down our neck, Mr. Modi may not be able to explain a reduction in defense spending for 2021 even to his own party (irrespective of our economy). So a status quo or a slight increase in the defense budget is what I will expect.
 

Hydra

Well-Known member
May 19, 2020
1,225
580
Mumbai
Until the economy is back on track, I don't see how the orders will be placed. The next budget and defense allocation will give us a better picture if the deal for LCA Mk1A and / or MRCA 2.0 will be signed anytime soon. After all these years of waiting, I no longer hope for an order but resigned to the fact that, it will happen when it happens. But the silver lining is that, with China breathing down our neck, Mr. Modi may not be able to explain a reduction in defense spending for 2021 even to his own party (irrespective of our economy). So a status quo or a slight increase in the defense budget is what I will expect.
Enemy will not wait our economy, if tye so called nationalistic government understand that funda its well nd good.
Its ridiculous that worlds fifth largest economy is complaining about lack of money to spend on defense when we have to face two nuclear power at the same time from east & West.
 

raghu1974

Member
Nov 19, 2020
110
80
Phoenix, AZ USA
Enemy will not wait our economy, if tye so called nationalistic government understand that funda its well nd good.
Its ridiculous that worlds fifth largest economy is complaining about lack of money to spend on defense when we have to face two nuclear power at the same time from east & West.
Exactly. You fight with what you have and not with what you will have in 3-4 years. Order or no order, China has to be dealt or will be dealt based on what we can and have.
 

Hydra

Well-Known member
May 19, 2020
1,225
580
Mumbai
Exactly. You fight with what you have and not with what you will have in 3-4 years. Order or no order, China has to be dealt or will be dealt based on what we can and have.
U need to fight enemy always with what u have, but its absured that we are not spending on defence when the threat is near and instead whining about economy. I heard that during lal bahadur shastri & Indira times we used to spend 6-7% of GDP for defence, india was ultra poor back then ,still people were ready accept it,but now we are world's largest economy and is highly unreasonable for not spending more.
People of india may tolerate poverty,but I don't think we will tolerate a defeat by the hand of enemy.
Lastly not least,a strong economy with weak defence force is useless,our history taught us the same things too. Princely states before Britih india were super rich,but they all overrun by Afghani tribal forces or Persians and we got looted . Ghori,Ghasni,babar,shersha & Nadirshah all came here when princely states of India was super rich and utter poor in military.
 

Sathya

Senior member
Dec 2, 2017
1,980
1,100
India
@Falcon what's your prediction for the IAF & IN purchase in next 3 years ?

∆ F 18 lease + purchase
∆ another batch of Rafale
∆ Su 30 + Mig 29
∆ Economy is Not supportive.
 

A Person

Well-Known member
Dec 1, 2017
733
727
A Place
It's another country but now nearly an enemy of UAE....
Not as much as a few years ago. The strategic opposition between the Turkey-Qatar axis on one side and the Egypt-Saudi-Emirates on the other is still there of course, but they're going back to a Cold War playbook about it and normalizing their relations again after raising tensions for a while.

Qatar's strategy of deterring aggression by buying fighters from France, the USA, and the UK has paid off.
 

Hydra

Well-Known member
May 19, 2020
1,225
580
Mumbai
Not as much as a few years ago. The strategic opposition between the Turkey-Qatar axis on one side and the Egypt-Saudi-Emirates on the other is still there of course, but they're going back to a Cold War playbook about it and normalizing their relations again after raising tensions for a while.

Qatar's strategy of deterring aggression by buying fighters from France, the USA, and the UK has paid off.
A lesson for us too.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
1,832
2,287
72
France
transition.wifeo.com
During an interview given for Iraqi Army Day (6 January) on State TV (Al Iraqiya), the Iraqi Minister of Defence, Jumaah Enad Saadoon, reiterated his interest in the acquisition of Rafale (without specifying the number). Ongoing discussions on payment terms

Post-2003 Iraq has reconstituted its combat fleet with 36 F-16s, but these are currently experiencing serious MCO difficulties.
No further information at this stage, but with the multiplication of potential markets, the question again arises as to the opening of a second assembly line, which could be abroad.
Indeed, the Indian specialised press evokes a massive proposal made in New Delhi by France: 70% of the Rafale production on the spot in exchange for future contracts.

 

Picdelamirand-oil

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
1,832
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Bientôt des avions Rafale pour la force aérienne irakienne?​

Rafale planes for the Iraqi air force soon?

On November 4, the Iraqi Minister of Defense, Juma Enad Saadoun, was welcomed at the air base [BA] 113 of Saint-Dizier by General Philippe Lavigne, the chief of staff of the Air Force. & Space [CEMAAE].

On this occasion, the 2/4 La Fayette fighter squadron as well as the 15.004 “Haute-Marne” aeronautical technical support squadron and the 05.0950 “Barrois” ground-to-air defense squadron were presented to him. And Mr. Saadoun was also entitled to an explanatory session aboard a Rafale cockpit and a presentation of the SAMP / T “Mamba” air defense system.

It should be noted that the Iraqi air force and air defense commanders were also on the trip, unlike the Minister of the Armed Forces, Florence Parly. Which would then have seemed curious if she had not received the Iraqi delegation the next day, at the Hôtel de Brienne.

However, the French minister went to Baghdad in August. And if the focus of his visit had been on the fight against the Islamic State [IS or Daesh], it was also a question of deepening Franco-Iraqi cooperation "in the field of defense and armament, including in the areas that could allow Iraq to strengthen its means of surveillance, on the ground as in its airspace. Hence, no doubt, the displacement of the Iraqi delegation to Saint-Dizier.

Because, back in Iraq, and in a video published by the Iraqi Ministry of Defense [and until then gone unnoticed here], Juma Enad Saadoun explained that his trip to France had for “the sole objective of strengthening the capacities of the Iraqi army with the latest equipment ”. And to specify that Baghdad intended to procure Rafale [without specifying the number] and that a decision on this subject had to be confirmed during a Council of Ministers.

What is it now? On the eve of the Iraqi army's centenary, on January 6, the French Ambassador to Iraq, Bruno Aubert, told Juma Enad Saadoun that Paris was standing alongside Baghdad for "strengthening its military capabilities", recalling the "long history" between the two countries.

Then, in an interview with Al Iraqiya state television on January 6 [the video, broadcast by the Iraqi Defense Ministry, was spotted by the author of the blog “Mars Attack”], Mr. Saadoun confirmed Baghdad's interest in the Rafale. Better: a contract would be about to be signed. "We are now discussing the financial aspects," he is said to have said.

However, the Iraqi air force is already equipped with 34 F-16IQ Block 52 fighter-bombers, acquired under a contract signed in 2011 [36 aircraft had been ordered… but two have since been lost, note].

Recently, the Iraqi Oil Report published several articles revealing that the Iraqi F-16 fleet, once engaged in operations in Syria against Daesh, was in critical condition due to lack of maintenance. And this, because of the deterioration of relations between Baghdad and Washington. In addition, the publication claimed that the Iraqi planes had been withdrawn from the air operations of the anti-jihadist coalition led by the United States, because of an availability problem.

However, for the centenary of the Iraqi army, 23 F-16IQs took part in the flypast organized for the occasion… Which seemed to cringe the claims of the Iraqi Oil Report. But at least in appearance. According to the Scramble site, these 23 aircraft are not actually all combat-ready ... given that their radars and avionics are not functioning properly. "By Western standards, these planes would not have been allowed to fly," says the publication . As for the 11 others, they would serve as spare parts tanks.

“This is due to budgetary concerns, logistical problems, reduced support from contractors to maintain the F-16s [due to the poor security situation in Iraq] and less trained pilots. The Iraqi Ministry of Defense of Iraq is working hard to improve this situation, ”says Scramble.

As for the Rafale, Greece should soon sign a contract for 18 units, including 12 used and 6 new. Croatia could also retain the fighter-bomber from Dassault Aviation, which is also competing in tenders in Switzerland and Finland. Finally, Indonesia is also on the verge of confirming the acquisition of around thirty copies, according to Ms. Parly. And that's without counting on the new orders that India and Egypt are likely to place.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
9,414
7,046
India

Bientôt des avions Rafale pour la force aérienne irakienne?​

Rafale planes for the Iraqi air force soon?

On November 4, the Iraqi Minister of Defense, Juma Enad Saadoun, was welcomed at the air base [BA] 113 of Saint-Dizier by General Philippe Lavigne, the chief of staff of the Air Force. & Space [CEMAAE].

On this occasion, the 2/4 La Fayette fighter squadron as well as the 15.004 “Haute-Marne” aeronautical technical support squadron and the 05.0950 “Barrois” ground-to-air defense squadron were presented to him. And Mr. Saadoun was also entitled to an explanatory session aboard a Rafale cockpit and a presentation of the SAMP / T “Mamba” air defense system.

It should be noted that the Iraqi air force and air defense commanders were also on the trip, unlike the Minister of the Armed Forces, Florence Parly. Which would then have seemed curious if she had not received the Iraqi delegation the next day, at the Hôtel de Brienne.

However, the French minister went to Baghdad in August. And if the focus of his visit had been on the fight against the Islamic State [IS or Daesh], it was also a question of deepening Franco-Iraqi cooperation "in the field of defense and armament, including in the areas that could allow Iraq to strengthen its means of surveillance, on the ground as in its airspace. Hence, no doubt, the displacement of the Iraqi delegation to Saint-Dizier.

Because, back in Iraq, and in a video published by the Iraqi Ministry of Defense [and until then gone unnoticed here], Juma Enad Saadoun explained that his trip to France had for “the sole objective of strengthening the capacities of the Iraqi army with the latest equipment ”. And to specify that Baghdad intended to procure Rafale [without specifying the number] and that a decision on this subject had to be confirmed during a Council of Ministers.

What is it now? On the eve of the Iraqi army's centenary, on January 6, the French Ambassador to Iraq, Bruno Aubert, told Juma Enad Saadoun that Paris was standing alongside Baghdad for "strengthening its military capabilities", recalling the "long history" between the two countries.

Then, in an interview with Al Iraqiya state television on January 6 [the video, broadcast by the Iraqi Defense Ministry, was spotted by the author of the blog “Mars Attack”], Mr. Saadoun confirmed Baghdad's interest in the Rafale. Better: a contract would be about to be signed. "We are now discussing the financial aspects," he is said to have said.

However, the Iraqi air force is already equipped with 34 F-16IQ Block 52 fighter-bombers, acquired under a contract signed in 2011 [36 aircraft had been ordered… but two have since been lost, note].

Recently, the Iraqi Oil Report published several articles revealing that the Iraqi F-16 fleet, once engaged in operations in Syria against Daesh, was in critical condition due to lack of maintenance. And this, because of the deterioration of relations between Baghdad and Washington. In addition, the publication claimed that the Iraqi planes had been withdrawn from the air operations of the anti-jihadist coalition led by the United States, because of an availability problem.

However, for the centenary of the Iraqi army, 23 F-16IQs took part in the flypast organized for the occasion… Which seemed to cringe the claims of the Iraqi Oil Report. But at least in appearance. According to the Scramble site, these 23 aircraft are not actually all combat-ready ... given that their radars and avionics are not functioning properly. "By Western standards, these planes would not have been allowed to fly," says the publication . As for the 11 others, they would serve as spare parts tanks.

“This is due to budgetary concerns, logistical problems, reduced support from contractors to maintain the F-16s [due to the poor security situation in Iraq] and less trained pilots. The Iraqi Ministry of Defense of Iraq is working hard to improve this situation, ”says Scramble.

As for the Rafale, Greece should soon sign a contract for 18 units, including 12 used and 6 new. Croatia could also retain the fighter-bomber from Dassault Aviation, which is also competing in tenders in Switzerland and Finland. Finally, Indonesia is also on the verge of confirming the acquisition of around thirty copies, according to Ms. Parly. And that's without counting on the new orders that India and Egypt are likely to place.

I hope the Iraqi Rafales are protected from Iran. Pretty sure the Iranians will eventually get their hands on Rafale info, which they can then pass on to the Russians and Chinese, in turn the Pakistanis.

There's a reason why the IAF is insisting on ADA to make India-specific avionics for our own indigenous projects. The same deal with FGFA, where the IAF variant would have been different from the export variant.

Anyway, I bet the Israelis will have a lot to say about this.
 

Saaho

Senior member
Dec 27, 2019
1,526
1,154
Canada
Both GoI and IAF are on the same page with respect to bringing more jets in. But decision making has been quite slow, some because of the govt, some because of the IAF, some because of the scientific community, and so on...

Stuff that should have been completed during UPA was never done. For example, either MRCA or MMRCA should have been signed in the 10-year term under UPA. With the exception of 40 LCA, zero jets were signed under them. FGFA also went nowhere. While the govt failed to deliver jets then, the scientific community failed to deliver the LCA as well. So the impact of the double whammy was felt under the Modi govt.

Under Modi, after the Rafale GTG, we are now working towards Mk1A, extra Mig-29s, MRFA and Mk2. Two of those shouldn't have been in the list. At the very least, Mk1A should have been signed in the first term, but was single-handedly delayed by HAL.
Face the facts. HAL sucks and should be closed. All baboos who spend more than 1 week on a file should be lined up on Pragrati Maidan and publically shot. They are the real Gaddars. Desh ke Gaddaron ko .... blah blah blah.

Trouble is, entire South block and Bangalore will go empty that way.
Yeah, India government defence "industry" and its administrator are this pathetic.
 
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