Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF

Bon Plan

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If Mirage2k they using are that much advancedd, why UAE is selling it & going for Rafales? Also remembere UAE is not facing any threat as we facing now. A nuclear armed nation with highly skilled military personals, arguably the best military in muslim world is threatening us from western border and a super power with exotic weapons is grabbing our land from East.

Also,There is no room for Mk1a & second hand Mirage, save that money and & go for more Rafale.
Because these M2000 are becoming older and older.
Because the foe neighbor Qatar have purchased a wide fleet of modern fighters.
Because UAE have no money problem.
Because....
 

Lolwa

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If Mirage2k they using are that much advancedd, why UAE is selling it & going for Rafales? Also remembere UAE is not facing any threat as we facing now. A nuclear armed nation with highly skilled military personals, arguably the best military in muslim world is threatening us from western border and a super power with exotic weapons is grabbing our land from East.

Also,There is no room for Mk1a & second hand Mirage, save that money and & go for more Rafale.
To be honest there's plenty of room for extra squadrons. I really don't understand why we don't do a ROSE style program like the Pakistanis did for the mirage 2000's. Getting the Qatari, UAE and French Mirages we could get around 4-5 squadrons of multirole aircraft that can easily add on the numbers. We are at severe disadvantage considering we will be facing around 400 PAF and 1500 PLAAF aircrafts against 600 IAF aircrafts. And surplus mirage 2000's which are already at the same standard as indian Mirages (UAE and Qatar) would be good. The tejas is a good aircraft but it's taking it's own time. We could atleast raise 2-3 squadrons of Mirages within a year. Just re-raise former mig 23 squadrons with Mirages and increase the budget of the IAF. I hope we are ordering the 21 mig 29UPG's from the Russians too since they would be extremely effective once the astra mk 1 and 2 integration is done.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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To be honest there's plenty of room for extra squadrons. I really don't understand why we don't do a ROSE style program like the Pakistanis did for the mirage 2000's. Getting the Qatari, UAE and French Mirages we could get around 4-5 squadrons of multirole aircraft that can easily add on the numbers. We are at severe disadvantage considering we will be facing around 400 PAF and 1500 PLAAF aircrafts against 600 IAF aircrafts. And surplus mirage 2000's which are already at the same standard as indian Mirages (UAE and Qatar) would be good. The tejas is a good aircraft but it's taking it's own time. We could atleast raise 2-3 squadrons of Mirages within a year. Just re-raise former mig 23 squadrons with Mirages and increase the budget of the IAF. I hope we are ordering the 21 mig 29UPG's from the Russians too since they would be extremely effective once the astra mk 1 and 2 integration is done.
Looottts of reasons why it's not happening. And more or less we are better off. First of unlike Mirage III of Pakistan which they got 2nd hand with lots of life remaining, we don't face the similar situation.

Second thing is cost. Renewing a Mirage 2000 will cost like 50 million bucks which will last for say 15 years. That's money wasted if you look that HAL/ADA is struggling with funds being released for various projects.

The only way forward to support our falling strength is to immediately go for a gov 2 gov deal with France for Made in France 36-54 Rafales. They can be delivered when oldest Mig29UPG and DARIN 2 start retiring.

And order atleast maybe 1 squadron more of Tejas Mk1A to be delivered by 2028.

Whatever else is left , push into MKI upgrade. And hope that US or Europeans don't export Fighter Jets to Pakistan.
 

randomradio

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To be honest there's plenty of room for extra squadrons. I really don't understand why we don't do a ROSE style program like the Pakistanis did for the mirage 2000's. Getting the Qatari, UAE and French Mirages we could get around 4-5 squadrons of multirole aircraft that can easily add on the numbers. We are at severe disadvantage considering we will be facing around 400 PAF and 1500 PLAAF aircrafts against 600 IAF aircrafts. And surplus mirage 2000's which are already at the same standard as indian Mirages (UAE and Qatar) would be good. The tejas is a good aircraft but it's taking it's own time. We could atleast raise 2-3 squadrons of Mirages within a year. Just re-raise former mig 23 squadrons with Mirages and increase the budget of the IAF. I hope we are ordering the 21 mig 29UPG's from the Russians too since they would be extremely effective once the astra mk 1 and 2 integration is done.

The IAF is not interested in second-hand jets.
 

Lolwa

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Second thing is cost. Renewing a Mirage 2000 will cost like 50 million bucks which will last for say 15 years. That's money wasted if you look that HAL/ADA is struggling with funds being released for various projects.

The only way forward to support our falling strength is to immediately go for a gov 2 gov deal with France for Made in France 36-54 Rafales. They can be delivered when oldest Mig29UPG and DARIN 2 start retiring.
That's why I'm saying for increased funding of the IAF. The Qatari and UAE Mirages are pretty much the same standard as the Indian Mirages with only some Israeli subsystems missing. We don't need to renew them when there isn't anything to renew or upgrade. They are all the same mirage 2000-5 standard.
And considering ordering the Rafale's it will just take a lot of time when we could raise atleast four squadrons of mirage with the UAE (70 jets) and Qatar (12 jets) all at the same standard as indian Mirages and that too within a year. The pakistanis only have the j-10 and blk 52's that truly poses any danger to the Mirages, while on the Chinese front it's only the j-10, j-16, j-20 and su-35 that will pose threat to it but mirage is capable enough to take down j7,j8, su-35's, su-30mkk's, j-10's and j-11/su-27's in the plaaf.
We can't get decent enough deterance for around than 1 billion $ investment and gives us breathing space until tejas mk2's get ready.
 

Lolwa

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Ashwin

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But weren't we buying second hand mig 29's from the Russians??
It's not second hand when airframes are never used.

I really don't understand why we don't do a ROSE style program like the Pakistanis did for the mirage 2000's.
We did it for Jaguars on multiple tranches. Mirage 2000 is too expensive to do it again better investment would be Rafales.
 

Ankit Kumar

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Qatari and UAE Mirages are pretty much the same standard as the Indian
UAE Mirages were overhauled by around 2005. Qatari Mirages were newer so didn't recieve one.

The airframe and engine overhaul and full mission computer systems/other avionics will have to be replaced. So the reduction in cost will be only miniscule.

HAL can upgrade and overhaul the airframes at 12 airframes a year.

Dassault can build Rafales at 3 per month rate. Ordering new Rafales will actually be quicker addition than overhauling of 70 or so Mirages.

Forget this, no one is selling their Mirages in the first stage. The Rafale delivery of UAE is to commence by 2026-27. Untill it starts, UAE will not release it's Mirages because it has two active war zones as of today, one in Yemen and one in Libya. As of today their Mirages are flying missions in these theaters.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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So the 21 mig 29 order is cancelled. Sad
So mirages are the only second choice left I suppose.
This can be done but not worth the trouble. MIG29 as its own airframe and engine has limits. Serious defecits.

There's a reason why Russians themselves have bought just 6 Mig35 over last 5 years of production. Instead replacing older Mig29 squadrons with Su30 , Su27SM overhauled and Su35s.
 

A Person

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HAL can upgrade and overhaul the airframes at 12 airframes a year.
Is that before or after subtracting the aircraft that they destroy in the process?

Oh well at least the IAF will get to fly its MiG-21 forever. It can shoot down F-16 and everything, why would the IAF need anything else?
 

Hydra

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But weren't we buying second hand mig 29's from the Russians??
Its not, just an old airframe.
So the 21 mig 29 order is cancelled. Sad
So mirages are the only second choice left I suppose.
Good decision. IAF will start decommission Mig29 by end of this decade, why to waste money for an obsolete technology.
 

Lolwa

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Its not, just an old airframe.

Good decision. IAF will start decommission Mig29 by end of this decade, why to waste money for an obsolete technology.
Funnily enough the tejas is superior to the mig 29. So we are better off buying more tejas mk 1a's than procuring mig 29 or mig 35. The same cannot be said for the mirage 2000's.
 

randomradio

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That's why I'm saying for increased funding of the IAF. The Qatari and UAE Mirages are pretty much the same standard as the Indian Mirages with only some Israeli subsystems missing. We don't need to renew them when there isn't anything to renew or upgrade. They are all the same mirage 2000-5 standard.
And considering ordering the Rafale's it will just take a lot of time when we could raise atleast four squadrons of mirage with the UAE (70 jets) and Qatar (12 jets) all at the same standard as indian Mirages and that too within a year. The pakistanis only have the j-10 and blk 52's that truly poses any danger to the Mirages, while on the Chinese front it's only the j-10, j-16, j-20 and su-35 that will pose threat to it but mirage is capable enough to take down j7,j8, su-35's, su-30mkk's, j-10's and j-11/su-27's in the plaaf.
We can't get decent enough deterance for around than 1 billion $ investment and gives us breathing space until tejas mk2's get ready.

The only possibility for second-hand Mirages in an almost realistic timeframe is Taiwan. UAE won't release their Mirages until they get their Rafales.

But upgrading these newer jets will be a whole lot cheaper than our jets.
 

A Person

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The only possibility for second-hand Mirages in an almost realistic timeframe is Taiwan.
Despite what op-ed written by Americans like to repeatedly proclaim, Taiwan does not seem to be in any rush to get rid of its Mirage 2000. And I would dare say that right now, they're probably even less in a rush to get rid of any combat aircraft they have. As long as the airframes are airworthy, they'll keep it in service because they need all the mass they can have to deter China.

Fun fact, to protect Pelosi during her visit, they used Mirage 2000 instead of F-16.
 
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Bon Plan

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The only possibility for second-hand Mirages in an almost realistic timeframe is Taiwan.
They are now quite old...
And I have a doubt Taiwan is keen to sell it, with the actual tension wjth China.

Some in France think about a Rafale purchase to Taiwan, but :
- No order inked so far.
- The Dassault order book is full so no early delivery
- I doubt France ready to make such a blow to the chinese face.


About Taiwan :
French source said a couple of days ago that Taiwan will receive new MICA missile.
I don't know if it is the NG variant or not....
But if you order new missile, it is that you want to keep your actual bird for a while, or you intend to order another one fitted with this missile... (Rafale? I don't think it's true)