Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF

Ankit Kumar

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Dassault secures 14-year Mirage 2000 maintenance deal for French air force


So France is planning to use Mirage 2000 till 2036 at least and here a few members are contemplating replacement of Mirage 2k after 2030.

Now wonder if French Air force is considering MLU with AESA radar and spectra EW.....
Airframe has a certain amount of life. IAF started receiving them from 1986 I think. The first MLU started operations in 2016 I think. That's 30 years.

The MLU adds about 15 more years. That's around 2030. 45 years of service is more than enough. The newer ones will service till 2035s.
 

Ankit Kumar

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The first 40 Mirage 2000 were in service in IAF by 1987. So that's that. They will go out starting 2030s.

A follow on order for 9 more was placed with last deliveries somewhere mid 1990s. They will serve a little longer , say around 5 more years.

10 more were purchased in 2004. They can service till 2040.
 

randomradio

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Airframe has a certain amount of life. IAF started receiving them from 1986 I think. The first MLU started operations in 2016 I think. That's 30 years.

The MLU adds about 15 more years. That's around 2030. 45 years of service is more than enough. The newer ones will service till 2035s.

India's M2000 MLU adds 5500 hours to the original 6000 hours. So they still have 30+ more years of flying time post MLU.
 
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Tatvamasi

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FKEokJcVcAQUvFs
 

_Anonymous_

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What is the retirement/replacement schedule for the jaguars? I know they are getting radar upgrades, but surely the platform will be phased out sooner rather than later right?
140 flying as of now. One can safely say that the engine upgradation program is officially dead which means we can't run them beyond 2035.

TBH they're obsolete even today w/o the engine upgradation especially considering the fact that Pakistan would be retiring their antiquated Mirages III & V as the JF-17 Block III enters service in a phased manner .

Beginning 2025 we'd be phasing out the Jaguars too in batches with the oldest going out first.

Not too sure about the Jaguars employed for Marine operations , though it doesn't matter as it's about a squadron , probably less.

The Jaguars would be replaced by the Rafales & later by both versions of the AMCA of which Mk-1 is expected to get into production by 2032-33 but it's India & ones fingers should always be crossed.
 
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Ankit Kumar

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What is the retirement/replacement schedule for the jaguars? I know they are getting radar upgrades, but surely the platform will be phased out sooner rather than later right?
62 Jaguars, the newest ones will get DARIN III upgrade. They will serve for approx 15 years.

Remaining squadrons will start going out by 2023 end or mid 2024.
 
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randomradio

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What is the retirement/replacement schedule for the jaguars? I know they are getting radar upgrades, but surely the platform will be phased out sooner rather than later right?

Of the 6 remaining squadrons, 2 will go out from 2023, 2 more will go out from 2035-38 and the last 2 can be operated up to 2042-45 if necessary, since they are relatively new jets. But they can be retired earlier than that if LCA Mk2 and MRFA plans proceed in time.
 
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suryakiran

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ok noob question

a. Why cannot the Kaveri be re-designed and down rated to power the Jaguars?
b. They can then be handed over to a reservist force if required when the Rafales come in. Or better still post it in a foreign country.
 

_Anonymous_

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ok noob question

a. Why cannot the Kaveri be re-designed and down rated to power the Jaguars?
I'd raised this question w.r.t the turbofan being developed by HAL asking @vstol Jockey , if it could be uprated on
I D F if I'm not mistaken . He suggested a time frame for certification of the existing model & then the uprated model would take any where between 6-8 yrs. You can extrapolate the same timeline to Kaveri .

By that time , it'd be retirement time for Jaguars. Frankly once the engine upgradation package was cancelled , the Jaguars were living on borrowed time.

I can't be imagine what's more embarassing . The Air Force of the 5th largest economy of the world in nominal GDP terms running an aircraft so obsolete , (no matter how much it's upgraded ) that even a nation like Ecuador has retired it facing an enemy like Pakistan whose economy is in the doldrums & is planning to replace it's equally obsolete Mirages with JF-17 & J-10 while we're scratching our balls waiting for the 2nd tranche of Rafales.




b. They can then be handed over to a reservist force if required when the Rafales come in. Or better still post it in a foreign country.
 
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STEPHEN COHEN

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ok noob question

a. Why cannot the Kaveri be re-designed and down rated to power the Jaguars?
b. They can then be handed over to a reservist force if required when the Rafales come in. Or better still post it in a foreign country.

Because the Existing Jaguars dont need New Engines for the limited duration of their airframe life

They will carry limited bomb Payloads and ASRAAM missiles
Maximum 2 and half tonnes

Secondly GTRE is busy with Raising the performance of Kaveri through in house projects for UCAV projects and also for AMCA through foreign collaboration

Their is no time , money and manpower for "Science projects "
 

Ashwin

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ok noob question

a. Why cannot the Kaveri be re-designed and down rated to power the Jaguars?
b. They can then be handed over to a reservist force if required when the Rafales come in. Or better still post it in a foreign country.
a, different classes of engines. Compare the diameters. Adour is way smaller 22 inch while Kaveri is 35 inch.

b, no Airforce reserve like structure exist here.
 
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randomradio

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ok noob question

a. Why cannot the Kaveri be re-designed and down rated to power the Jaguars?
b. They can then be handed over to a reservist force if required when the Rafales come in. Or better still post it in a foreign country.

Kaveri can't be redesigned to fit the Jaguar. A new design is needed that's in the same class as HAL's HTFE-25.

HTFE-25 can be improved, uprated and modified with an afterburner to fit the Jaguar. But it's gonna take way too much time to be relevant.
 
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xxxxx

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I don't know jf 17 could threaten our mirages. From the interviews on HI Sutton and even DCS gameplays.
The Pakistanis seem quite confident on taking on our Mirages


Though our mirages also use the r73 but still the jf 17 seems to win in a turn fight against our mirage. Which also brings in to question how will Tejas fair against the jf-17..
It is normal. The pure delta-wing aerodynamic layout of the Mirage 2000 is very rare among fourth-generation fighter jets. US pilots who have participated in the Red Flag military exercise commented that the M2000 is the fighter with the worst maneuverability other than the F14A.
 

randomradio

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It is normal. The pure delta-wing aerodynamic layout of the Mirage 2000 is very rare among fourth-generation fighter jets. US pilots who have participated in the Red Flag military exercise commented that the M2000 is the fighter with the worst maneuverability other than the F14A.

Different people, different opinions.

Which aircraft have you flown DACT against and which was the most challenging?
“In the Su-30 I have flown DACT with RSAF (Royal Singapore Air Force) F-16, M-2000 H /5[ FAF], MiG -29 amongst the ASFs. I think the most challenging was the M2000 in France. The carefree manoeuvrability of the Mirage its nose profile and avionics package perhaps gave it an edge over the others. The F-16 beyond the initial turn loses steam, the MiG -29 is very powerful but conventional controls maybe …. . A good Mirage guy can manoeuvre more carefree.”
 

xxxxx

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Different people, different opinions.

Which aircraft have you flown DACT against and which was the most challenging?
“In the Su-30 I have flown DACT with RSAF (Royal Singapore Air Force) F-16, M-2000 H /5[ FAF], MiG -29 amongst the ASFs. I think the most challenging was the M2000 in France. The carefree manoeuvrability of the Mirage its nose profile and avionics package perhaps gave it an edge over the others. The F-16 beyond the initial turn loses steam, the MiG -29 is very powerful but conventional controls maybe …. . A good Mirage guy can manoeuvre more carefree.”
There is an obvious error in this sentence.
F16 loses energy after initial turn
This is a characteristic of a delta wing, not a swept wing,
In fact, the F16 should be the single-engine fourth-generation machine with the best energy characteristics, and its stable hovering ability is very strong.
The M2000 benefits from the large delta wing and has excellent instantaneous hovering ability. It is more dangerous in the first lap of the air battle, but the deceleration will be very fast.
The F16 also has better climb rate and acceleration performance than the Mirage 2000 due to its stronger T/W.
If I remember correctly, the F16A/B has a climb rate of 300, the M2000 is only 285
 

randomradio

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There is an obvious error in this sentence.
F16 loses energy after initial turn
This is a characteristic of a delta wing, not a swept wing,
In fact, the F16 should be the single-engine fourth-generation machine with the best energy characteristics, and its stable hovering ability is very strong.
The M2000 benefits from the large delta wing and has excellent instantaneous hovering ability. It is more dangerous in the first lap of the air battle, but the deceleration will be very fast.
The F16 also has better climb rate and acceleration performance than the Mirage 2000 due to its stronger T/W.
If I remember correctly, the F16A/B has a climb rate of 300, the M2000 is only 285

A lot of the F-16A/B's capabilities have become irrelevant on later blocks due to the weight increase.