Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

A Person

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On landing? Sounds like the guy can't fly for shit. Even the average DCS player knows not to do that.
He's a USAF flight instructor, but I guess the average DCS player is more competent and experienced at flying airplanes than USAF flight instructors.

After all, in DCS, you don't have to deal with toxic OBOGs, misaligned HMD, and all the other dysfunctions of the F-35.
 

BMD

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He's a USAF flight instructor, but I guess the average DCS player is more competent and experienced at flying airplanes than USAF flight instructors.

After all, in DCS, you don't have to deal with toxic OBOGs, misaligned HMD, and all the other dysfunctions of the F-35.
Whatever he is, it sounds like he screwed up and came in too fast and tried correct too late, like an amateur.
 

A Person

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You should have written the crash inquiry report. To think the investigators spent so much time looking into all the screwups of the aircraft, misaligned helmet, choking OBOG, non-real-time flight controls, etc. when they could just have said "lol the pilot sucked I'm better than him in DCS"...

Oh well, I can certainly get behind the idea of replacing all F-35s everywhere with a free copy of DCS. It seems to be what real pilots need to fly.
 
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Bon Plan

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It is a rejected deal. Nothing surprising : Germany opt for new Eurofighters (to replace older ones.... only 20 years old !) and SH18 for B61.
 

randomradio

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It is a rejected deal. Nothing surprising : Germany opt for new Eurofighters (to replace older ones.... only 20 years old !) and SH18 for B61.

I find it pretty stupid that the French did not offer an alternative with the Rafale+ASMP or Rafale+new gravity nukes to replace the American nuclear arsenal in Europe. The same could have been repeated all over Europe. If French laws prevented such a deal, then I'd say the French are being shortsighted. The same for the Germans if they chose the Americans over a French offer, if the French did make such an offer.

Now the Germans are gonna operate two types of jets that won't be able to penetrate Russian defences anyway.
 

Bon Plan

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I find it pretty stupid that the French did not offer an alternative with the Rafale+ASMP or Rafale+new gravity nukes to replace the American nuclear arsenal in Europe. The same could have been repeated all over Europe. If French laws prevented such a deal, then I'd say the French are being shortsighted. The same for the Germans if they chose the Americans over a French offer, if the French did make such an offer.

Now the Germans are gonna operate two types of jets that won't be able to penetrate Russian defences anyway.
It was on unofficial offer ! The germans didn't have a single look at.
It was already difficult for them to accept that the french take the lead on the FCAS, but impossible to purchase the sole true direct competitor to the EF2000.
The germans prefer to remain under the NATO rules than to accept to create a european army with deterrence as promoted by the french. Because they know that France will take the technological lead (France is the sole EU country to master nuclear warheads, strategical missiles, SSBN. Even no more EU cournty GB don't mastered it all).
The sole compromise was to not purchase F35, an initiative seen as to kill the FCAS to the french eyes.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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I find it pretty stupid that the French did not offer an alternative with the Rafale+ASMP or Rafale+new gravity nukes to replace the American nuclear arsenal in Europe. The same could have been repeated all over Europe. If French laws prevented such a deal, then I'd say the French are being shortsighted. The same for the Germans if they chose the Americans over a French offer, if the French did make such an offer.

Now the Germans are gonna operate two types of jets that won't be able to penetrate Russian defences anyway.
The Germans only want to be able to carry American nuclear bombs to be part of NATO's nuclear weapons meetings. They buy the American umbrella which seems better than the French one.
 

Bon Plan

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It was on unofficial offer ! The germans didn't have a single look at.
It was already difficult for them to accept that the french take the lead on the FCAS, but impossible to purchase the sole true direct competitor to the EF2000.
The germans prefer to remain under the NATO rules than to accept to create a european army with deterrence as promoted by the french. Because they know that France will take the technological lead (France is the sole EU country to master nuclear warheads, strategical missiles, SSBN. Even no more EU cournty GB don't mastered it all).
The sole compromise was to not purchase F35, an initiative seen as to kill the FCAS to the french eyes.

Next opportunity for Germany : to use the french ASN4G next gen deterrence air to ground missile on the common FCAS 6th gen jet....
 

randomradio

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It was on unofficial offer ! The germans didn't have a single look at.
It was already difficult for them to accept that the french take the lead on the FCAS, but impossible to purchase the sole true direct competitor to the EF2000.
The germans prefer to remain under the NATO rules than to accept to create a european army with deterrence as promoted by the french. Because they know that France will take the technological lead (France is the sole EU country to master nuclear warheads, strategical missiles, SSBN. Even no more EU cournty GB don't mastered it all).
The sole compromise was to not purchase F35, an initiative seen as to kill the FCAS to the french eyes.
The Germans only want to be able to carry American nuclear bombs to be part of NATO's nuclear weapons meetings. They buy the American umbrella which seems better than the French one.

So it appears any dreams of a Common Defence plan is ridiculously far into the future.

It looks like only France wants sovereignty, all other EU countries want America to protect them so that they don't have to increase their defence budget. And under Biden, status quo will continue.

Next opportunity for Germany : to use the french ASN4G next gen deterrence air to ground missile on the common FCAS 6th gen jet....

That's at least 30 years away though. The security situation will be completely different by then.
 

Bon Plan

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So it appears any dreams of a Common Defence plan is ridiculously far into the future.

It looks like only France wants sovereignty, all other EU countries want America to protect them so that they don't have to increase their defence budget. And under Biden, status quo will continue.
It will change only if the USA decide to leave europe to its own futur.
One reason to explain the germany point of view is that they don't want to see them, the 4th world economy, protected by the 6th one umbrella. It's a matter of honor. It's sometimes as simple as that.
 

randomradio

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The security situation has to change for Germany to agree for the use of French nuclear weapons instead of US one.

Yep. But they are being shortsighted if they cannot react now by anticipating the chance in the security situation at a later date.

I have no idea how the SH will penetrate Russian defences 10 years down the line facing the S-500 and Su-57, go all the way to the target and then drop a gravity bomb.

It looks more like the nukes are for show and not for actual use.
It will change only if the USA decide to leave europe to its own futur.
One reason to explain the germany point of view is that they don't want to see them, the 4th world economy, protected by the 6th one umbrella. It's a matter of honor. It's sometimes as simple as that.

They probably see more honour in servitude than in cooperation.
 

_Anonymous_

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It will change only if the USA decide to leave europe to its own futur.
One reason to explain the germany point of view is that they don't want to see them, the 4th world economy, protected by the 6th one umbrella. It's a matter of honor. It's sometimes as simple as that.
Your expert views, Paddy? @BMD
 

BMD

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They probably see more honour in servitude than in cooperation.
It's more a case that it's cheaper and less complicated. Sure, the EU could have a decent defence of its own, even equivalent to that of the US, if every country was prepared to contribute 4% of its GDP for the next 15-20 years, as well as putting both the security and national interests of their own country entirely in the hands of the likes of Juncker, or whoever happens to be sitting on the thrown at that time. What are the chances of that happening? None, absolutely zero.
 

randomradio

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It's more a case that it's cheaper and less complicated. Sure, the EU could have a decent defence of its own, even equivalent to that of the US, if every country was prepared to contribute 4% of its GDP for the next 15-20 years, as well as putting both the security and national interests of their own country entirely in the hands of the likes of Juncker, or whoever happens to be sitting on the thrown at that time. What are the chances of that happening? None, absolutely zero.

The Europeans do not need to match the US, they only need to be around 1/3rd of the US. The US is far more busy in the Pacific and the IOR, so the amount spent on the Atlantic is not all of their budget.
 
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Bon Plan

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It's more a case that it's cheaper and less complicated. Sure, the EU could have a decent defence of its own, even equivalent to that of the US, if every country was prepared to contribute 4% of its GDP for the next 15-20 years, as well as putting both the security and national interests of their own country entirely in the hands of the likes of Juncker, or whoever happens to be sitting on the thrown at that time. What are the chances of that happening? None, absolutely zero.
You don't need to have the US arsenal to be credible.
Just double the french arsenal and it will be enough for the whole EU. 8 x SSBN each with 16 missiles with 6 to 12 warheards (so as to have 3 subs at sea at every time) + 100 to 150 air to ground missile with 300kt warhead = More than enough. All of that for 2% GDP max.

It mainly a politic question. Not a technical or economical one.
 

BMD

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The Europeans do not need to match the US, they only need to be around 1/3rd of the US. The US is far more busy in the Pacific and the IOR, so the amount spent on the Atlantic is not all of their budget.
Depends on the scenario. A nightmare scenario could involve Russia and China... and maybe Turkey too.
 

randomradio

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Depends on the scenario. A nightmare scenario could involve Russia and China... and maybe Turkey too.

The EU can handle Russia and Turkey on their own. If China joins in then they have to manage the US, India, Japan and also the EU. They are not going to overstretch themselves like that for many decades. Even if they did do it, then they are splitting themselves quite conveniently, since the US also has to split themselves between the Pacific and Atlantic, so it actually works in their favour.
 

Bon Plan

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Depends on the scenario. A nightmare scenario could involve Russia and China... and maybe Turkey too.
3 SSBN at sea = 3 x 16 x 6 (minimum 6, but M51 can carry up to 10 or 12) = 288+ warheads of 100 kT. Even with some failure and some loss due to a possible ABM shied, the threat remains big. Enough to scratch the main cities, harbours, industrial centers of each...
If it'a a crisis time, on 8 SSBN 4 or 5 may be at sea at those time.... so 480+ warheads. The stick is big enough.