Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

randomradio

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Picdelamirand-oil

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Believe in your common sense. P&W has a monopoly with F135 engine. Of course, he does not what to see this program succeed.

You thought F-35 will be a failure but here we are producing more of those per year than the entire Rafales in the french airforce.
Oh you know, we're modest, the domestic market for weapons in the US is 10 times larger than the French market, because the US has 6 times the population of France and if you multiply by 6 the production budget of a small series of equipment, you can produce 10 times more because of scale effects.

So our objectives are the following:
  1. To have a development cost that is half that of the Americans for an equivalent product thanks to design to cost and a much better controlled process.
  2. To export the equivalent of the production for France in order to reduce the market size disadvantage.
For the Rafale these two objectives now seem easy to achieve and therefore it will be a success.
  1. We have produced 152 Rafales for France and we will probably produce 225.
  2. We have export orders for 156 Rafales with enough prospects to exceed the 225 Rafales for export.
 

Tatvamasi

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Oh you know, we're modest, the domestic market for weapons in the US is 10 times larger than the French market, because the US has 6 times the population of France and if you multiply by 6 the production budget of a small series of equipment, you can produce 10 times more because of scale effects.

So our objectives are the following:
  1. To have a development cost that is half that of the Americans for an equivalent product thanks to design to cost and a much better controlled process.
  2. To export the equivalent of the production for France in order to reduce the market size disadvantage.
For the Rafale these two objectives now seem easy to achieve and therefore it will be a success.
  1. We have produced 152 Rafales for France and we will probably produce 225.
  2. We have export orders for 156 Rafales with enough prospects to exceed the 225 Rafales for export.
So you can rationalize how small the french industry is but you don't see a conflict of interest with the P&W CEO's statement.
 

Herciv

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So you can rationalize how small the french industry is but you don't see a conflict of interest with the P&W CEO's statement.
Is there only a conflict of interrest. In the case of the f-135. It is obviuos that a totally new engine will had to much risk. The Raytheon CEO's statement is only toward politics to help them in finding arguments against the AETP solution. For me the choice is already done. No AETP for F-35.
 

Tatvamasi

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As small as it is, the French industry is comparable to that of India and much larger as far as aircraft are concerned.
Oh yeah, bring in a third world nation with $2,200 per capita for comparison. How insecure are you? The topic was F-35 not how irrelevant the charles de gaulle is.

Is there only a conflict of interrest. In the case of the f-135. It is obviuos that a totally new engine will had to much risk. The Raytheon CEO's statement is only toward politics to help them in finding arguments against the AETP solution. For me the choice is already done. No AETP for F-35.
How does your instincts matter here? US is funding the AETP program because they have the intention and wherewithal to buy it.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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When was the last time your french plane gotten a new engine in the 20+ years it has been flying and gotten heavier? :unsure:
Our aircraft did not need it to evolve from F1 to F2, F3, F3O4T, F3R, F4.1, F4.2. While your F35 needs the tech refresh 3 (TR3) to be able to pass its operational software to block 4, the TR3 needs a new engine to have a power supply in accordance with its needs. You may not see the difference, but I do.
 

WHOHE

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Our aircraft did not need it to evolve from F1 to F2, F3, F3O4T, F3R, F4.1, F4.2. While your F35 needs the tech refresh 3 (TR3) to be able to pass its operational software to block 4, the TR3 needs a new engine to have a power supply in accordance with its needs. You may not see the difference, but I do.
Well you can't compare your fighter to F-35. Your fighter is nowhere near as advanced as the F-35 and your fighter is entering its twilight years with its future prospect looking dim... 4th gen fighters are going the way of the dodo bird.

Face it your french plane is too heavy for its 20+ year old engine but can't afford new engines. All 4th gen US fighters have had several engine upgrades and if dassault was able to afford it they'd be flying with better engines than they currently fly with.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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Well you can't compare your fighter to F-35. Your fighter is nowhere near as advanced as the F-35 and your fighter is entering its twilight years with its future prospect looking dim... 4th gen fighters are going the way of the dodo bird.

Face it your french plane is too heavy for its 20+ year old engine but can't afford new engines. All 4th gen US fighters have had several engine upgrades and if dassault was able to afford it they'd be flying with better engines than they currently fly with.
You really are an incurable glorious prick.
 
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BMD

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I don't think you'd be able to eat them, you're too prejudiced for that.
A person with any taste wouldn't eat them at all. You're very much like Europe's China in that respect. It'll probably be a French person eating a poorly-cooked pigeon that starts the next global pandemic.

As small as it is, the French industry is comparable to that of India and much larger as far as aircraft are concerned.
It's certainly much larger in terms of egos, that's for sure.