Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

BMD

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Data dissemenation is about NCW, and all three, Gripen, Rafale and Typhoon, have pretty much the same score because all three use Link 16, which sucks. SA/Force Coordination is also limited by Link 16. And even when using the same hardware, it still allows the Rafale to beat the other two.

Anyway, even a single point difference is actually a pretty massive difference.
Not when the maximum score is 9 and you get like 7.5. I'm think the F-35 would be at 9 on that same chart. And it seems I misread the graph, it's more like 0.2 not 0.5 LOL.

Data fusion was not a Swiss requirement at that time and was therefore not tested by Armasuisse. This was our main problem, the Swiss requirements were very low compared to the capabilities of the Rafale.
So low you only scored 7.5/9.0. The performance of your aircraft clearly sucked balls too, 7 vs 9 for the Typhoon and yet you harp on about M1.4 supercruise and close-coupled canards blah, blah, blah. And you couldn't even beat the M-Scan Captor on engagement.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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Not when the maximum score is 9 and you get like 7.5. I'm think the F-35 would be at 9 on that same chart. And it seems I misread the graph, it's more like 0.2 not 0.5 LOL.


So low you only scored 7.5/9.0. The performance of your aircraft clearly sucked balls too, 7 vs 9 for the Typhoon and yet you harp on about M1.4 supercruise and close-coupled canards blah, blah, blah. And you couldn't even beat the M-Scan Captor on engagement.
Apparently you are satisfied with little, your plane has been beaten for all the missions which shows that you don't know how to make good compromises, you are just too primitive to understand that.

dassaultrafale.png
 

randomradio

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Not when the maximum score is 9 and you get like 7.5. I'm think the F-35 would be at 9 on that same chart. And it seems I misread the graph, it's more like 0.2 not 0.5 LOL.


So low you only scored 7.5/9.0. The performance of your aircraft clearly sucked balls too, 7 vs 9 for the Typhoon and yet you harp on about M1.4 supercruise and close-coupled canards blah, blah, blah. And you couldn't even beat the M-Scan Captor on engagement.

It doesn't look like data fusion was scored, I doubt it was even expected.
 

Bon Plan

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Laugh all you want but your denial contradicts what the Swiss thought of the F-35's SA.

Swiss Pick F-35 to Replace Old Fighter Jets
30 Jun 2021 Marcus Weisgerber

"...“[T]he F-35A achieved the best result because it has a marked technological advantage over the other candidates: it includes entirely new, extremely powerful and comprehensively networked systems for protecting and monitoring airspace,” the Federal Council said. “The F-35A is able to ensure information superiority; this means pilots benefit from a higher situational awareness in all task areas when compared with the other candidates. This is especially true for day-to-day air policing.”

In other words the Swiss weren't impress with your planes SA, bub.
The Swiss were just afraid of the penalty is uncle Sam decide to restrain the dollar use (So essential when you have so many banks).
It's what sleepy Joe said when he made a short visit in Switzerland few days before the announcement. The weeks before Rafale was said to be the winner.... And Swiss top brass was discussing of offsets with Dassault international GIE...
You perfectly knows that but it would hurt you to admit only the half.
 
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Bon Plan

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U.S. Marine F-35Bs to Embark on Japan’s Largest Warship in October​


KUALA LUMPUR – U.S Marine F-35Bs from Iwakuni will support the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force’s post refit trials of the destroyer helicopter carrier JS Izumo (DDH183) next month.
The Marine Corps aircraft will work with the JMSDF in the Pacific Ocean from Oct. 3 through Oct. 7, according to a Thursday news release from the Japan Defense Ministry. Izumo in June completed the first of a two-stage modification that will enable it to operate the F-35, with the first stage adding heat resistant coating to the flight deck and flight line markings for F-35 operations.

The release did not say which squadron the aircraft would come from or how many USMC F-35Bs will be embarked for the trials. The U.S. Marines have two F-35B squadrons operating from Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, with the “Bats” of Marine Corps Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 242 declaring initial operating capability on Sept. 9. The other squadron – the “Green Knights” of VMFA-121 – reached IOC in July 2015, before deploying to Japan in January 2017.

MCAS Iwakuni detailed Izumo arriving to the base’s harbour in a Thursday new release, though it did not state the purpose of the ship’s arrival.
USNI News reported on Sept. 1 that Marine Corps Commandant Gen. David Berger said U.S Marine F-35s would operate off a Japanese warship later this year, though it is unclear whether he meant the trials or a later operational or exercise deployment on Izumo.

Izumo’s final conversion work will be carried out in Fiscal Year 2025, while its sister ship – JS Kaga (DDH184) – will be fully modified in FY 2022. The second stage of Izumo’s conversion and the full stage of Kaga’s conversion will involve a change of the shape of the ships’ bows along with interior reconfiguration allowing them to embark and fully operate F-35s.

The modification of Izumo and Kaga are paired with a planned Japan Self-Defense Forces buy of 42 F-35Bs to operate from the two ships. The first of the JSDF F-35Bs are set to arrive in FY 2023 and the U.S. Marine F-35s are expected to continue operating off the two ships as Japan acclimates itself to operating F-35Bs. The JMSDF has already conducted a series of engagements and exchanges in relation to F-35B operations with the U.K. Royal Navy’s Carrier Strike Group 21 (CSG21) while it was in Japan in early September.

A JMSDF submarine carried out a series of anti-submarine warfare training from Sept. 14 to 15 with a Royal Navy submarine near Japan, the JMSDF said in news release earlier this week. The release noted that this was the first occasion in which a JMSDF submarine trained with a Royal Navy submarine. A U.K.’s Astute-class submarine is currently operating in the region as part of the CSG21 deployment. The U.K. and Japan have also agreed to commence formal negotiations on a Reciprocal Access Agreement (RAA) to deepen the defense relationship between the two countries, the U.K. Defense Ministry announced on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, Izumo’s sister ship – Kaga – and destroyer JS Murasame (DD101) are making their way across the Indian Ocean to Colombo, Sri Lanka for a port visit from Oct. 2 to 4 as part of the JMSDF Indo-Pacific Deployment 2021 (IPD21) task group. The two ships conducted an exercise in the Indian Ocean with the German Navy frigate FGS Bayern (F217) last week. The exercise included Bayern’s embarked Super Lynx helicopter conducting a landing on Kaga and one of Kaga’s SH-60 helicopters doing the same on Bayern.

The two JMSDF ships also conducted an exercise with USNS Yukon (T-AO-202) on Wednesday.

Bayern, which left Germany in August for a seven-month deployment to the Indo-Pacific, docked in Fremantle, Western Australia on Tuesday for a week-long visit following an anti-submarine warfare exercise with a Royal Australian Air Force P-8. The frigate will be berthed at Fremantle Harbour from Sept. 28 through Oct. 5.

Meanwhile the main body of the U.K. CSG21 left Guam on Tuesday. The U.K. CSG consists of aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth (R08) and embarked aircraft, which include the “Wake Island Avengers” of VMFA-211 and the Royal Air Force 617 Squadron “The Dambusters.” The two squadrons are integrated for operations on the carrier.

The CSG also includes frigates HMS Kent (F78) and HMS Richmond (F239), Royal Fleet Auxiliary’s RFA Fort Victoria (A387) and RFA Tidespring (A136), destroyer HMS Defender (D36), and an Astute-class submarine. Dutch frigate HNLMS Evertsen (F805), U.S. destroyer USS The Sullivans (DDG68) are also part of the CSG. Some elements of the group are in separate locations, with The Sullivans last seen docked in Yokosuka.

Richmond – having been deployed in the East China Sea while taking part in United Nations sanctions enforcement operations against North Korea – posted on social media on Monday that it transited the Taiwan Strait while en route to Vietnam.

F-35B is totally revolutionizing many Navy's. Italian Navy with its two F-35B carriers has made it the second best/formidable navy right behind Royal Navy.
US Marines not only have to equip the two UK "carriers", but also the Japanese one... poor of you !
 

Innominate

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The Swiss were just afraid of the penalty is uncle Sam decide to restrain the dollar use (So essential when you have so many banks).
It's what sleepy Joe said when he made a short visit in Switzerland few days before the announcement. The weeks before Rafale was said to be the winner.... And Swiss top brass was discussing of offsets with Dassault international GIE...
You perfectly knows that but it would hurt you to admit only the half.
WOW look at you and your powers to read minds... All this time I thought the Swiss selected the F-35 because it was $2 billion cheaper to operate than the second place plane and vastly SUPERIOR than the second place plane. :rolleyes:
 

Innominate

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US Marines not only have to equip the two UK "carriers", but also the Japanese one... poor of you !
They are not equipping them you dope they are helping them with training while at the same time showing other potential customers/navies with "carriers" how powerful their navy can become overnight with F-35Bs. Spain is sniffing around the F-35 and if they ever get their economy settled their navy would love the F-35B. Australia is also watching and paying attention so is South Korea.

Italy's navy thanks to the F-35B has become the second most capable navy right behind Royal Navy that is how much having the F-35B in your fleet revolutionizes it. Europe is becoming F-35 territory the french plane not so much.
 
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BMD

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Apparently you are satisfied with little, your plane has been beaten for all the missions which shows that you don't know how to make good compromises, you are just too primitive to understand that.

dassaultrafale.png
Says the country where people clean their ar5e with a sink.

The fact remains 7.5 is not a score that indicates F-35 levels of SA, or even close.
It doesn't look like data fusion was scored, I doubt it was even expected.
Uhurr.. that's your excuse, it got 7.5/9 FFS.
Teleport to December for Finland discussions.
The Rafale does that too apparently. Picdelamirand-oil told me so it must be true.
 
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Innominate

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F-35 SA Level is 0 because it doesn't work
You know I actually believe you don't believe this but are soooo butt hurt that the F-35 has killed so many sales for your french plane that you lie to yourself to make yourself feel better.

Also 15+ nations disagree with you.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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You know I actually believe you don't believe this but are soooo butt hurt that the F-35 has killed so many sales for your french plane that you lie to yourself to make yourself feel better.

Also 15+ nations disagree with you.
Is that enough evidence for you? Anyone can make a video like that.

The video shows great connectivity with a wide variety of platforms, whereas the F-35's primary means of communication, the MADL datalink, only allows it to communicate with itself. :ROFLMAO:
 

Innominate

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Is that enough evidence for you? Anyone can make a video like that.

The video shows great connectivity with a wide variety of platforms, whereas the F-35's primary means of communication, the MADL datalink, only allows it to communicate with itself. :ROFLMAO:

This wasn't just anyone this was the maker of the fighter... you know the fighter that is dominating globally? No wonder Stark_contras runs circles around you at airdefense. You do know F-35 has Link 16?
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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This wasn't just anyone this was the maker of the fighter... you know the fighter that is dominating globally? No wonder Stark_contras runs circles around you at airdefense. You do know F-35 has Link 16?
Yes, but I also know that when he uses it he is no longer stealthy. And that's his only advantage.
 

Innominate

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Yes, but I also know that when he uses it he is no longer stealthy. And that's his only advantage.
Lol. No but I'll play your BS game. So I guess by your logic the non stealthy french plane becomes even less stealthy because it also uses Link 16, eh?

“Once you get it [Link 16], you’re a player and part of the club, you get that [tactical] information for free. Not only are you able to subscribe to the information that’s there, but you’re able to publish information that’s consumed for free by those other platforms. It’s an X-squared effect: not only are things better for me because of what I know, things are better for me because of what everybody else knows about me,” Kessler says.

Another aspect Link 16 shares with the new generation of military waveforms is its inherent low probability of intercept (LPI) and low probability of detection (LPD) capability, which allows platforms using it to operate and survive in harsh electromagnetic environments through its jam resistance. Some of the receiver processing techniques being fielded on software defined radios using these new waveforms are also applicable to Link 16, Camana says.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Lol. No but I'll play your BS game. So I guess by your logic the non stealthy french plane becomes even less stealthy because it also uses Link 16, eh?
It is an advantage of active stealth that it can counter the L16's emissions in the direction of the hostiles. :)
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Some of the receiver processing techniques being fielded on software defined radios using these new waveforms are also applicable to Link 16, Camana says.
It is possible, but for the moment it is not done: for the F-35 it is only done on the MADL.