LOC Flare up: Related news and Discussions

SrNair

Member
Mar 12, 2018
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58
Kerala
Any limited action by India will be meticulously get covered by Pakistani authorities,and they will keep their activities on India online. Pakistan successfully covered it twice in past, First surgical strikes & balakot are examples. And you cannot cripple pakistani military with limited action.
Only a full scale will yield some results, if we are capable to destroy pakistan then we should go for full scale option to end terrorism in india.
Not a limited action.
If there bomb a single place in India , a counter strike with high speed weapons on all of their assets.Especially Naval ships and AF base.

World will interefere before it escalates to full war.
Within that short time ,inflict as much as damage on them.
Point is not defeat them but unbearable expense on them.
Any future action we decide to take will be restricted to punitive action, but it's going to be quite public. GoI is not going to help the Pakistanis cover it up anymore. The best way to put pressure on the Pak govt is to increase the pressure on them from their own people. The PA should be publicly seen unable to protect itself.

India's current strategy is to tighten the noose on Pak, not simply destroy it. Destroying Pak is the absolute last resort, and GoI is unlikely to use that option for many, many years.

It must be public .
Anyway within hrs world will interfere ,within that time test some Shauryas,Brahmos in full maximum.
 

Cole_phelps

Well-Known member
Jun 19, 2019
430
576
India
This winter maybe the last opportunity that we get to defang Paxtan and then concentrate our forces in East. A short 1-2 weeks war may set them back many decades, PA will lose all confidence and credibility, and may even cause breakup of Paxtan itself. If not, their economy will be in drain and won't be able to afford defense budget. A true democracy may come to paxtan and it will be degradation to our threat perception.
 

Hydra

Well-Known member
May 19, 2020
1,073
499
Mumbai
Not a limited action.
If there bomb a single place in India , a counter strike with high speed weapons on all of their assets.Especially Naval ships and AF base.

World will interefere before it escalates to full war.
Within that short time ,inflict as much as damage on them.
Point is not defeat them but unbearable expense on them.


It must be public .
Anyway within hrs world will interfere ,within that time test some Shauryas,Brahmos in full maximum.
So no pok retake. We should use the opportunity to take back the crucial GB at any cost. A limited action will not guarantee that.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
9,126
6,751
India
This winter maybe the last opportunity that we get to defang Paxtan and then concentrate our forces in East. A short 1-2 weeks war may set them back many decades, PA will lose all confidence and credibility, and may even cause breakup of Paxtan itself. If not, their economy will be in drain and won't be able to afford defense budget. A true democracy may come to paxtan and it will be degradation to our threat perception.

It's not that easy though.

If the plan is to defang Pakistan, then it's only possible to do so in an all-out war, which in turn risks a nuclear war. And if Delhi and Mumbai become holes in the ground, then we can forget about defending in the east for a decade. We currently do not have the financial strength to rebuild Delhi and Mumbai with our current economic strength within a realistic timeframe. And a limited war is not going to defang Pakistan, although it will definitely humiliate them.
 

Defc0n

Well-Known member
Sep 8, 2019
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666
India
It's not that easy though.

If the plan is to defang Pakistan, then it's only possible to do so in an all-out war, which in turn risks a nuclear war. And if Delhi and Mumbai become holes in the ground, then we can forget about defending in the east for a decade. We currently do not have the financial strength to rebuild Delhi and Mumbai with our current economic strength within a realistic timeframe. And a limited war is not going to defang Pakistan, although it will definitely humiliate them.

I don't think there is any possibility of a nuclear war. Given the kind of country Pakistan is, if they were confident about their nukes, why do you think they have not used them so far? Coz they care about the world opinion? I really don't think so. We need to butcher Pak army and humiliate them publicly such that their whole country knows the meaning of the word "shame". Without that nothing will change.
 

jetray

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Mar 15, 2018
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randomradio

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I don't think there is any possibility of a nuclear war. Given the kind of country Pakistan is, if they were confident about their nukes, why do you think they have not used them so far? Coz they care about the world opinion? I really don't think so.

Pakistanis are NOT interested in a Nuclear war

It depends on too many factors that are not under our control. Pak uses nukes for deterrence. They are definitely not meant to be used. But there's no guarantee there's nobody who will use nukes, because there's a good chance the destruction of their armed forces will imply they will also lose control of their nukes. My point is if we are planning on destroying the PA completely, that straightaway implies Pak will no longer exist. So someone has to test this theory, and we are unlikely to do that at this time.

We need to butcher Pak army and humiliate them publicly such that their whole country knows the meaning of the word "shame". Without that nothing will change.

The only thing that they dont want is a Complete Humiliation like 1971

But there is a lot of space for a limited war

This can be done without resorting to war. All we have to do is launch punitive strikes that cannot be covered up. And the destruction wrought has to be enough that the Pak public will bay for blood, either Indian or PA's, for inaction or failure. PA has swallowed up huge amounts of public money, and if they cannot demonstrate the ability to protect Pakistan, then that creates a situation for them that they may not be able to recoup from. But we have no need to destroy PA in order to achieve this.

I believe We are still waiting for S 400

We are waiting for a lot of things, not just the S-400.
 

Saaho

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Dec 27, 2019
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Canada
The fact that Pakistan was throwing around India's alleged involvement in Pakistan's internal rebellion against army opression suggests that something was cooking. They were keeping things quiet because of FATF review. Once they were grey listed, they decided to go ahead and started blaming India for their own problems -- many of them being false.

Whenever Pakistan makes diplomatic noise it means a terror activity is planned.
 

Defc0n

Well-Known member
Sep 8, 2019
600
666
India
(1) It depends on too many factors that are not under our control. Pak uses nukes for deterrence. They are definitely not meant to be used. But there's no guarantee there's nobody who will use nukes, because there's a good chance the destruction of their armed forces will imply they will also lose control of their nukes. My point is if we are planning on destroying the PA completely, that straightaway implies Pak will no longer exist. So someone has to test this theory, and we are unlikely to do that at this time.





(2) This can be done without resorting to war. All we have to do is launch punitive strikes that cannot be covered up. And the destruction wrought has to be enough that the Pak public will bay for blood, either Indian or PA's, for inaction or failure. PA has swallowed up huge amounts of public money, and if they cannot demonstrate the ability to protect Pakistan, then that creates a situation for them that they may not be able to recoup from. But we have no need to destroy PA in order to achieve this.



We are waiting for a lot of things, not just the S-400.


1) Pakistan didn't use nukes so far. Whether or not they are for deterrence or not is not proven.
As far as I am concerned, Pak will be extremely happy to wipe out Delhi and Mumbai if it has the means to do so. My bet is on the fact that they don't have w reliable delivery system which guarantees a strike. All of their missiles are of Chinese design and gifted by China. So, reliability of the systems is an issue for Pak.

2) What do we do when Pak hits back (Swift Retort redux) ? Do we allow them to hit our military installations and get away with it? If not, then we hit them again and it starts a loop. In a very short time that escalates to war. OTH if we don't retaliate, they get to have the last laugh just like what happened after Balakote.

This is the reason why punitive strikes alone won't work unless you are ready to climb the escalation ladder on being hit back by Pak.
This is why it has to be a full spectrum operation this time which pulverize Pak's army and it's war fighting capabilities. No half measures this time.
 

Cole_phelps

Well-Known member
Jun 19, 2019
430
576
India
It's not that easy though.

If the plan is to defang Pakistan, then it's only possible to do so in an all-out war, which in turn risks a nuclear war. And if Delhi and Mumbai become holes in the ground, then we can forget about defending in the east for a decade. We currently do not have the financial strength to rebuild Delhi and Mumbai with our current economic strength within a realistic timeframe. And a limited war is not going to defang Pakistan, although it will definitely humiliate them.

You can certainly give a deadly blow to PAF and PN which costs them billions and decades to build back, let PA survive to keep Paxtan intact. Destroy strategic assets and limit their power projection or ability to fight. Paxtan's holy logic of live to fight another day will kick in. Even if India takes out their AWACS, that's huge cost for Paxtan.

Two and a half front is a defeatist logic. When we have identified these fronts, what are we doing to decrease our fronts.
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
654
511
Delhi
You can certainly give a deadly blow to PAF and PN which costs them billions and decades to build back, let PA survive to keep Paxtan intact. Destroy strategic assets and limit their power projection or ability to fight. Paxtan's holy logic of live to fight another day will kick in. Even if India takes out their AWACS, that's huge cost for Paxtan.

Two and a half front is a defeatist logic. When we have identified these fronts, what are we doing to decrease our fronts.
I'm not understanding how you will take out these assets as if the Pakistanis won't hide it. Do you want to randomly attack their assets without any objective. Are we gaining anything concrete with it. You destroy their awacs they will loan another from the Chinese. And they can shamelessly hide the loss. The PN will go to some neighbouring country coast to hide away from IN ships.
I honestly see no way apart from aggressive salami slicing with open denial by the IA. And funding insurgencies at the same time and practice diplomatic isolation into a North Korea like state. We need to seperate the Pakistanis from the West first. Then from the Muslim ummah which is much harder. The U.S and France have already started to ditch them. U.K and Germany are the two to exploit. U.K will be much harder since they are under a lot of Pakistani influence.
The gulf states are starting to ditch the Pakistanis and We should focus on making a case for the GCC to make the Pakistani state a pariah. Iran,Pakistani, Turkey,Qatar will be the bloc we will have to handle. The smaller our share of enemies the better. At the same time we have too keep the Russians away from selling Pakistan any thing even if it means buying whatever junk they are going to sell.
We really need to buy U.K's loyalty since it's where the Pakistani royalty actually lives..
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
9,126
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India
1) Pakistan didn't use nukes so far. Whether or not they are for deterrence or not is not proven.
As far as I am concerned, Pak will be extremely happy to wipe out Delhi and Mumbai if it has the means to do so. My bet is on the fact that they don't have w reliable delivery system which guarantees a strike. All of their missiles are of Chinese design and gifted by China. So, reliability of the systems is an issue for Pak.

There's no issue with their delivery systems. Even our scientists have attested to that fact.

2) What do we do when Pak hits back (Swift Retort redux) ? Do we allow them to hit our military installations and get away with it? If not, then we hit them again and it starts a loop. In a very short time that escalates to war. OTH if we don't retaliate, they get to have the last laugh just like what happened after Balakote.

This is the reason why punitive strikes alone won't work unless you are ready to climb the escalation ladder on being hit back by Pak.
This is why it has to be a full spectrum operation this time which pulverize Pak's army and it's war fighting capabilities. No half measures this time.

They are free to hit back, and they are expected to hit back anyway. GoI backed out last time, a mistake in hindsight, in order to give the Pakistanis a face-saving exit. And they still didn't take it. This time there won't be any face-saving.
You can certainly give a deadly blow to PAF and PN which costs them billions and decades to build back, let PA survive to keep Paxtan intact. Destroy strategic assets and limit their power projection or ability to fight. Paxtan's holy logic of live to fight another day will kick in. Even if India takes out their AWACS, that's huge cost for Paxtan.

Two and a half front is a defeatist logic. When we have identified these fronts, what are we doing to decrease our fronts.

You will have to explain what that means. And how you will achieve it. Also what's the actual objective.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
9,126
6,751
India

DEWs will eliminate such threats permanently. Plus DEW will be cheaper than UAVs.

As for using them as mules, they are not there yet. UAVs can't climb up mountains with reasonable payloads yet. At best, large UAVs can be used to make minor supply drops, but even those do not exist yet. Right now, VTOL UAVs can only resupply 1 soldier at a time, but definitely not up a mountain. A more reasonable system would be robotic mules on tracks.
 

Defc0n

Well-Known member
Sep 8, 2019
600
666
India
There's no issue with their delivery systems. Even our scientists have attested to that fact.



They are free to hit back, and they are expected to hit back anyway. GoI backed out last time, a mistake in hindsight, in order to give the Pakistanis a face-saving exit. And they still didn't take it. This time there won't be any face-saving.


You will have to explain what that means. And how you will achieve it. Also what's the actual objective.

Any source (links) of where our scientists have attested the workings of their missiles?

As for the retaliation, does that not contradict your original post? If we keep hitting them back and they are also expected to retaliate, is that not a war? This will continue in a loop until one side can no longer hit back.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
9,126
6,751
India
Any source (links) of where our scientists have attested the workings of their missiles?

I have spoken to them. In fact, you need to get the right information from talking to people. The thing is Pak wouldn't invest on missiles if they didn't think they would work. By hook or crook, they have developed a basic SRBM and MRBM capability that can do the job it's meant to do.

As for the retaliation, does that not contradict your original post? If we keep hitting them back and they are also expected to retaliate, is that not a war? This will continue in a loop until one side can no longer hit back.

That's not war, those are just small skirmishes. War implies movement of ground troops across the border to secure objectives in enemy territory. Attacking a target from the air is not war.

Also, when we talk about punitive strikes, the idea is to put pressure on Pakistan to attack us, and our gameplan is to thwart such an attack and make them fail so that they come under pressure from their own people, civilians, terrorist groups and from within the PA itself. It's about forcing them to commit to making one mistake after another and push themselves into a corner.

So we will attack terrorists, they will retaliate similarly as they did after Balakot, then we thwart that attack and then respond to that attack... and so on. The idea is to force Pakistan to escalate. But if they have sense, they won't escalate, they will quietly get hit and we can keep hitting them perpetually, which will in turn destroy their morale. Basically, as long as we keep the pressure up, they have no way to win. This is not war.
 
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