LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
578
465
so total 7 aircraft with flying daggers by end of 2017?
Frankly speaking, I am not worried about numbers as per news 18 you can see sp14 on the jig, so if you consider 11 months to complete a plane then HAL will complete16 plane 2018 dec end but again that may not be handed over IAF.
 
Last edited:

Rakshit

Kane0610
Dec 2, 2017
88
86
@Aashish @vstol Jockey @randomradio

I have question regarding the weapons configuration in LCA. Below is a picture from the official tejas website. We can see that only stations 6,5 (out-board pylons) can carry the CCMs. However, the mid and in-board pylons can only carry BVR and bombs. CCM being lighter, why can't we configure all the hard points to carry CCMs? Similarly, why cant we configure the station 7 to carry BVR?

In a recent CNBC video, the test pilot also confirms that only out-board pylons are configured to carry CCMs.

1513505638695.png


I understand that the mission profile dictates the weapon configuration. But, what stops the developers from keeping the option available on the table? For example, if Tejas were to carry an air combat mission, it could carry air-to-air missiles on all the hard points. Similar to the below pics.

1513505966618.png
1513506234818.png
1513506434550.png
 
Last edited:

vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
5,956
11,623
New Delhi
@Aashish @vstol Jockey @randomradio

I have question regarding the weapons configuration in LCA. Below is a picture from the official tejas website. We can see that only stations 6,5 (out-board pylons) can carry the CCMs. However, the mid and in-board pylons can only carry BVR and bombs. CCM being lighter, why can't we configure all the hard points to carry CCMs? Similarly, why cant we configure the station 7 to carry BVR?

In a recent CNBC video, the test pilot also confirms that only out-board pylons are configured to carry CCMs.

View attachment 568

I understand that the mission profile dictates the weapon configuration. But, what stops the developers from keeping the option available on the table? For example, if Tejas were to carry an air combat mission, it could carry air-to-air missiles on all the hard points. Similar to the below pics.

View attachment 569View attachment 570View attachment 571

You need to understand few facts regarding the wing design and structural loads associated with a wing design. The outermost pylons have a load limit of 150 kgs each so they are configured for CCMs. But all other pylons can carry CCMs as they are stronger. LCA was designed as fighter to replace Mig-21s which carried just four AAMs of which two were CCMs. LCA could carry six with one centerline D/T. the station 8 is so located that the exhaust fumes from the missile might get sucked in to the intakes. They need to revise the design of the pylon to ensure that hot gases do not enter the engine intakes.
with Multiple AAM racks, LCA can easily carry 2xCCMs on outermost pylons+4xCCMs on mid pylons+4xBVRAAMs on inner pylons. But that is based on the load limit of these pylons and also the interference caused by the airflow not creating vibrations from this configuration. Also we need to remember that the G-limits of any aircraft for any configuration are based on a specific weight of the aircraft. With such a load out of AAMs, LCA may not be able to reach 8.5G Limits and might get restricted to just about 7G. This G-limit will rise as the fuel is burnt and the missiles fired.
 

Shashank

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
858
949
Ban galore
83 more Tejas jets: IAF asks Hindustan Aeronautics to send quote

The Indian Air Force has formally asked the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to submit its proposal for making 83 additional Tejas fighter jets.

(Follow The Tribune on Facebook; and Twitter @thetribunechd)

Of these, 73 will be the upgraded version called the ‘Mark-1A’ and 10 will be the trainer version – a twin seat version– that will be as per specifications allowed in the variant okayed for existing final operational clearance (FOC). The HAL will submit its proposal within 90 days that is by March next year. HAL is already making 40 Tejas jets as per the FOC standards set by the IAF.

At present pace, the Mark 1-A can first be ready for first flight by 2019.

The Tribune had first reported on November 14 how the Ministry of Defence (MoD) was clearing the hurdles to the project and was more interested in ‘Make in India’ project of the light combat aircraft, Tejas.

On November 7 last year, the Defence Acquisition Council, chaired by then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, approved the procurement of 83 planes of the ‘Mark1-A’ version. But a formal order is yet to be placed. It was almost two years ago, in December 2015, that the IAF indicated the requirement of 100 Tejas LCA MK 1-A aircraft, for which a formal order is yet to be placed. The plan of manufacturing and completion is from 2018 to 2022-23.

The seeking of proposal from HAL, an MoD owned public sector undertaking, is the first step towards getting these jets.

There are 123 Tejas jets – in two variants — that the MoD is looking at. Forty planes of the base version have been ordered and are under production. The Mark 1-A version will have 43 upgrades over the base version.

The IAF wants AESA radar in place of the manually scanned Israeli Elta radar. Besides it wants a ‘self-protection jammer’, fitted with external re-fuelling capability.

Besides, the MoD has Rs 1,331-crore plan to double the existing eight planes per annum capacity of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.
 

Rakshit

Kane0610
Dec 2, 2017
88
86
You need to understand few facts regarding the wing design and structural loads associated with a wing design. The outermost pylons have a load limit of 150 kgs each so they are configured for CCMs. But all other pylons can carry CCMs as they are stronger. LCA was designed as fighter to replace Mig-21s which carried just four AAMs of which two were CCMs. LCA could carry six with one centerline D/T. the station 8 is so located that the exhaust fumes from the missile might get sucked in to the intakes. They need to revise the design of the pylon to ensure that hot gases do not enter the engine intakes.
with Multiple AAM racks, LCA can easily carry 2xCCMs on outermost pylons+4xCCMs on mid pylons+4xBVRAAMs on inner pylons. But that is based on the load limit of these pylons and also the interference caused by the airflow not creating vibrations from this configuration. Also we need to remember that the G-limits of any aircraft for any configuration are based on a specific weight of the aircraft. With such a load out of AAMs, LCA may not be able to reach 8.5G Limits and might get restricted to just about 7G. This G-limit will rise as the fuel is burnt and the missiles fired.

Thank you for the response.

I absolutely understand the fact that the outer pylons have limitations in terms of load. But my question was why cant we certify tejas to carry CCMs on all pylons (primarily Mid-board and inner pylons)? As you said, tejas can carry the missiles, but for some reason it is not certified yet for such a weapon config.

Is it because having the following configurations would be underutilisation of the aircraft's weapon carrying capability? Would there be any missions that might require tejas to carry such weapon configs?

Config 1: 2 CCMS on outermost pylons + 2 BVRAAMs on mid pylons + 2 BVRAAMs on inner pylons and 1 centerline fuel tank

Config 2: 2 CCMs on outermost pylons + 2 CCMS on mid pylons + 2 BVRAAMs on inner pylons and 1 centerline fuel tank

Config 3: 2 CCMs on outermost pylons + 2 BVRAAMS on mid pylons + 2 Fuel tanks on Inner pylons and 1 BVRAAM on certerline pylon (station 7)
 

vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
5,956
11,623
New Delhi
Thank you for the response.

I absolutely understand the fact that the outer pylons have limitations in terms of load. But my question was why cant we certify tejas to carry CCMs on all pylons (primarily Mid-board and inner pylons)? As you said, tejas can carry the missiles, but for some reason it is not certified yet for such a weapon config.

Is it because having the following configurations would be underutilisation of the aircraft's weapon carrying capability? Would there be any missions that might require tejas to carry such weapon configs?

Config 1: 2 CCMS on outermost pylons + 2 BVRAAMs on mid pylons + 2 BVRAAMs on inner pylons and 1 centerline fuel tank

Config 2: 2 CCMs on outermost pylons + 2 CCMS on mid pylons + 2 BVRAAMs on inner pylons and 1 centerline fuel tank

Config 3: 2 CCMs on outermost pylons + 2 BVRAAMS on mid pylons + 2 Fuel tanks on Inner pylons and 1 BVRAAM on certerline pylon (station 7)
LCA is certified to carry CCMs on each pylon. Once you have the ability to carry a missile on an aircraft and designate targets, the missile can be loaded on any pylon based on wiring for each pylon. You are wrong to assume that CCMs are limited to just outermost pylons. Rafale can carry MICA on the pylons earmarked for Meteor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rakshit

Rakshit

Kane0610
Dec 2, 2017
88
86
LCA is certified to carry CCMs on each pylon. Once you have the ability to carry a missile on an aircraft and designate targets, the missile can be loaded on any pylon based on wiring for each pylon. You are wrong to assume that CCMs are limited to just outermost pylons. Rafale can carry MICA on the pylons earmarked for Meteor.

ok. Glad to know that. The reason I asked was because of the below chart published in the official LCA website.

1513791264926.png

Even in the below video (4:40), the test pilot was specific about the outboard pylon for CCM and midboard pylon for BVRAAM.


Thanks for the clarification.
 

AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
2,061
1,525
Republic of Wadiya
Air Force issues request for proposal to HAL for 83 Tejas aircraft

PTINEW DELHI , DECEMBER 20, 2017 19:35 IST
UPDATED: DECEMBER 20, 2017 23:01 IST
Defence Ministry had cleared the proposal to buy 83 fighter jets from defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd
Faced with depleting strength of its fighter squadron, the Indian Air Force today issued the request for proposal (RFP) to State-run aerospace behemoth Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the procurement of 83 Tejas light combat aircraft at a cost of over Rs 50,000 crore.
The IAF had earlier placed an order with the HAL for 40 Tejas aircraft.
The RFP for 83 Tejas light combat aircraft has been issued today, setting the ball rolling for finalising the contract for the mega deal, official sources said.
The Defence Acquisition Council, the Defence Ministry’s highest decision-making body on procurement, had in November last year approved purchase of 83 Tejas Mark 1 A by IAF at a cost of Rs 50,025 crore.
The sources said the final deal for the procurement is likely to be inked within the next five months.
They said out of the 83 LCA, 10 will be used for training purposes.
According to official figures, 14 squadrons of the MiG 21, MiG 27 and MiG 29 are due for retirement in the next 10 years which will bring down the fighter squadron strength to 19 by 2027 from the current 33.
The strength may be further reduced to 16 by 2032.
In an interview to PTI, HAL Chairman and Managing Director T. Suvarna Raju had said most of the 42 modifications in Tejas sought by the IAF, including weaponisation of the aircraft, had been carried out.
“Tejas is a four-and-half generation world class fighter jet. There is no doubt about it. We can improve its various parameters. We are proud of Tejas. Every Indian will be proud of it. We will ensure enhancement in its quality and performance,” Raju had said.
There have been views in the IAF that the Tejas aircraft was not enough to maintain its combat readiness and it needed to quickly procure a fleet of foreign single engine fighters to deal with any possible security challenges faced by the country in the backdrop of the dwindling size of its fighter fleet.
The IAF believes that it has to have a wide mix of aircraft to maintain an operational edge over its adversaries.
The HAL CMD had said that the four-and-half generation Tejas would be able to deliver what is expected of it.
The lifespan of the jet would be a minimum of 30 years just like any other frontline combat aircraft, he said.
The combat jets are classified under various generations depending on their avionics, capability and weapons systems.
@Aashish @Abingdonboy @vstol Jockey
 
  • Like
Reactions: TARGET and Aashish

Star Wars

Well-Known member
Dec 1, 2017
484
506
Bangalore
Indian Air Force Issues Request For Proposal To HAL To Induct 83 LCA Tejas Aircraft

by Swarajya Staff - Dec 20 2017, 8:23 pm,


The LCA Tejas (Aeronautical Development Agency)

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has issued the request for proposal (RFP) for the acquisition of 83 Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, official sources said today (20 December). The Ministry of Defence had cleared the proposal to them from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).
Of the 83, 73 will be an upgraded version – Mark-1A – and the remaining 10 will be a twin seat trainer version. HAL will submit its proposal within 90 days. HAL is already in the process of making 40 Tejas jets as per the final operational clearance (FOC) standards set by the IAF. At the current pace, the Mark 1-A will be ready for its first flight by 2019.
In November 2016, the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), chaired by then Minister of Defence Manohar Parrikar had approved procurement of 83 Mark 1-A planes. In December 2015, the IAF indicated the requirement of around 100 MarK 1-A aircraft, for which a formal order is yet to be placed. Manufacturing is expected to take place between 2018 and 2022-23.

There are 123 Tejas jets of two variants that the Defence Ministry is looking to procure. Orders for 40 planes of the base version have already been placed and they are currently under production. Mark 1-A will have 43 upgrades over the base version.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya and TARGET

Bharath

Technical Staff
Dec 1, 2017
791
996
Boston
so that kind of closes the argument of 83 Mk1A aircraft. now the only open question is - are we going to get Mk II at all (AF LCA) or are we going to concentrate on AMCA from 2023 on wards?
I believe with all of Mk 1A goals completed by 2019 - leaves the R&D division of the HAL to pursue MK II or AMCA while outsourcing the production of Mk 1A's major portion will free up HAL to do the only "integration" thats required.
I am still hopeful that LCA MK II will be developed - this will help is bridge the gap between the LCA and the AMCA.
with the way HAL and DRDO are going about, I would rather they take step by step approach and deliver something useful instead of promising the biggest fighter with lowest capabilities.
 

Shashank

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
858
949
Ban galore
Russian Version of LCA News.

India Launches $8 Billion Program to Make Its Own Fighter Jet

India has officially launched a program aimed at creating its own single-engine combat aircraft that will require no technology from abroad.

New Delhi seeks to procure 83 combat aircraft produced by the state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics LTD (HAL) in an attempt to free its air force from dependence on imported technologies, Defense One reports.

According to the report, the airplane, designated LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) Mark-1A, is going to be "truly a fourth-generation fighter," equipped with service-specific Active Electronically Scanned Array radar, or AESA; air-to-air refueling pods; self-protection jammers; and improved avionics and core systems.
The procurement program will cost $8 billion and is currently the largest purchase made under Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's "Make in India" program, which seeks to alleviate India's dependence on imported products.
The announcement comes months after Indian authorities attempted to place an order of 105 LCA Mark 2's, a futuristic aircraft currently under development, which would have costed $15 billion. The procurement is in an uncertain state since, according to military experts, the program lacks clarity and immediate priorities.

"LCA Mark 2 is a far-fetched vision. The service wants improvement on the existing LCA to address all issues of looms, improvement in performance, interchange ability, improved US-made GE 414 [engines], improved avionics and missiles to be fitted on it," a senior Indian Air Force official told Defense News in September.

According to Daljit Singh, a defense analyst and retired Air Force air marshal, the Mark 2 program "was proposed by the Indian Air Force to ensure that the aircraft complies with the majority of air staff requirements. However, that would involve major design changes of the fuselage to accommodate a more powerful engine."

More at : India Launches $8 Billion Program to Make Its Own Fighter Jet
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Guynextdoor