LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
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Mumbai

Frankly this is news to me . When exactly did the Argentines express interest in the Mk1/Mk-1a & why should alternatives for Brit supplied ejection seats , radomes & refuelling probes be infeasible or not economical ?
 

LX1111

Member
May 12, 2021
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china
The PL-15 is the first operational missile of its class, ie, dual thrust motor, AESA seeker etc. And it's being severely underestimated for some reason outside Chinese circles.

Western analysts claim it's capable of 150+ Km, hence an underestimation. And on the other side the Chinese are claiming it's capable of 300-350Km, perhaps an overestimation, perhaps not.

Of course, the Chinese numbers are at an unknown altitude. And western analysts like playing down non-western systems so they throw around numbers that are acceptable to their psyche. But that's at the cost of creating false equivalence with existing western systems.

The only thing we can say for sure is all existing BVR missiles save for Meteor have been outclassed by the PL-15. It's pretty incredible the kind of lead the Chinese have taken. It's no surprise that the Americans were caught sleeping, but even the Japanese are 7 years away from matching/exceeding the PL-15 with the JNAAM. And I'm sure the Chinese are going to drop more such bombs on us over the next few years.
I personally think that PL15 has a range of 150-180KM. A radar developer once told me that when experimenting with PL15, I used J7G to simulate F16. At a distance of 120 kilometers, no matter how maneuvered, J7G would be shot down.
The 300 axiom should be PL21, which is specially used for early warning aircraft and fuel dispenser
 

LX1111

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May 12, 2021
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I don't know if the Chinese next gen technologies are worse, the same or better than Russian tech, but what I know for sure is the J-16 is currently far superior to the Su-35 in terms of avionics build due to the use of next gen technologies whereas the Russians have stuck with the tried and tested, more so because they don't have the money for next gen yet. Combine that with a superior performing BVR missile, then you have something that's truly half a generation ahead.

The Chinese can't buy anything else because they need to deal with UAC as a whole, and not just Sukhoi or Salyut etc. It's funny, the Chinese have always dealt with Sukhoi/Salyut, all their fighter jets use Salyut engines, whereas the Su-35 uses a Saturn engine. The Salyut engine failed to make the cut for the Su-35, the same story repeats for Su-57 as well. So the Russians have basically forced the Chinese into a deal which doesn't benefit them one bit, but benefits the Russians the most as it opens the Su-35 up for exports in a big way amongst smaller countries, which is happening right now. There's also the possibility that the Su-35 contract was a peace gesture for stealing Russian tech for the J-15 and J-16, and not for the older engines alone. But of course they can't make it so obvious. If the Russians play it right, maybe they can get the Chinese to buy a second regiment.

The over-reliance on the Russian AL-31 has come back to bite the Chinese in their backsides, but they didn't have a choice then, however now they have their own engines, which is extremely impressive. If the Chinese claims of having designed a supercruiser are true, then that's a remarkable achievement. There also seems to be a J-10D in the works which uses a Chinese engine. Whereas the J-11B has been using Chinese engines post the LRIP stage. Then of course there's the J-16.
Many people misunderstand the purpose of introducing su35, and they don’t understand the significance of su27 to China’s aviation industry. The introduction, imitation, improvement, and upgrade of the su27 series of fighter jets have a huge role in promoting China’s aviation industry. It promotes China’s military aviation R&D and development. The upgrade of the manufacturing system provides a solid foundation for the future development of the J20. The introduction of the su35 in addition to supplementing the air force’s combat effectiveness vacancies before the J20 and J16 service, the su35 is like an exam answer, and we understand our process of improving the su27 through the Su 35. Successes and shortcomings in
This is more important than simply introducing the 117S engine.
 

AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
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Republic of Wadiya
Many people misunderstand the purpose of introducing su35, and they don’t understand the significance of su27 to China’s aviation industry. The introduction, imitation, improvement, and upgrade of the su27 series of fighter jets have a huge role in promoting China’s aviation industry. It promotes China’s military aviation R&D and development. The upgrade of the manufacturing system provides a solid foundation for the future development of the J20. The introduction of the su35 in addition to supplementing the air force’s combat effectiveness vacancies before the J20 and J16 service, the su35 is like an exam answer, and we understand our process of improving the su27 through the Su 35. Successes and shortcomings in
This is more important than simply introducing the 117S engine.
And here we are still afraid of replacing old Russian subsystems with newly developed local subsystems due to fear of angering Russian OEMs
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,850
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India
Many people misunderstand the purpose of introducing su35, and they don’t understand the significance of su27 to China’s aviation industry. The introduction, imitation, improvement, and upgrade of the su27 series of fighter jets have a huge role in promoting China’s aviation industry. It promotes China’s military aviation R&D and development. The upgrade of the manufacturing system provides a solid foundation for the future development of the J20. The introduction of the su35 in addition to supplementing the air force’s combat effectiveness vacancies before the J20 and J16 service, the su35 is like an exam answer, and we understand our process of improving the su27 through the Su 35. Successes and shortcomings in
This is more important than simply introducing the 117S engine.

The Su-35 is unlikely to help your industry to the scale you are expecting though. At best, all it will help you understand where you are with respect to the Russians.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,850
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India
And here we are still afraid of replacing old Russian subsystems with newly developed local subsystems due to fear of angering Russian OEMs

Not at all. We go by our own laws, where we give preference to the OEM over others. If the OEM fails to deliver, then we look for alternatives. Plenty of subsystems on both MKI and Mig-29 are Indian/non-Russian now. Look at the Brahmos as well, more than 85% is now Indian.

Also, we stick to our contracts because our scientific community doesn't give importance to reverse engineering and this also gives us diplomatic benefits since we are not part of the UNSC.

Had we followed the Chinese method, we would have been much more behind than we are today. The Chinese simply compensated using their money power. If you look back at when they were a $2.8T economy, ie around 2003-04 considering inflation, they were pretty backward then.
 
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randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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I personally think that PL15 has a range of 150-180KM. A radar developer once told me that when experimenting with PL15, I used J7G to simulate F16. At a distance of 120 kilometers, no matter how maneuvered, J7G would be shot down.
The 300 axiom should be PL21, which is specially used for early warning aircraft and fuel dispenser

It depends on the altitude. The PL-15 is far too big to merely match the AIM-120D using dual pulse motors. In my books, it seems to be 200-250Km, possibly closer to the speculated 300Km.
 

LX1111

Member
May 12, 2021
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16
china
It depends on the altitude. The PL-15 is far too big to merely match the AIM-120D using dual pulse motors. In my books, it seems to be 200-250Km, possibly closer to the speculated 300Km.
v2-1e51e61612f9c52cce0574d74a886009_b.jpg

This is the model of SD10A (PL12) and SD30 (pl15), it seems that there is not much difference
 

LX1111

Member
May 12, 2021
43
16
china
It depends on the altitude. The PL-15 is far too big to merely match the AIM-120D using dual pulse motors. In my books, it seems to be 200-250Km, possibly closer to the speculated 300Km.
The most important thing about PL15 is the use of dual-band AESA and a very complex multiple guidance mode, which improves the tracking ability of stealth targets.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Dec 4, 2017
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It depends on the altitude. The PL-15 is far too big to merely match the AIM-120D using dual pulse motors. In my books, it seems to be 200-250Km, possibly closer to the speculated 300Km.

I think PLAAF must fire one PL 15 on Taiwanese fighters , to see and prove
Its range and performance
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
10,850
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India
View attachment 20021
This is the model of SD10A (PL12) and SD30 (pl15), it seems that there is not much difference

Those are just scale models. When it comes to scale models, it's not generally an accurate representation of the actual missile. When they showed off the J-20 with the PL-15, the missile took up almost the entire length of the weapons bay, which means the missile is at least 4m long.

Also what looks like the propulsion system on the model seems much larger on the PL-15. Which means the electronics and warhead section are much smaller. Look at the Derby and Derby ER, the external missile dimensions are the same, but the range difference is 2x.

With no external and dimension changes, the Israelis managed to double range, whereas the PL-15 comes with major design and dimension changes, especially on the propulsion side.

AIM-120D is 3.6m long and manages a range of 160-180Km, whereas PL-15 is 4m long and has much more advanced and compact electronics. The dual thrust motors alone should increase range by 50%, if not 100% with all that extra fuel.
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
924
687
Delhi
View attachment 20021
This is the model of SD10A (PL12) and SD30 (pl15), it seems that there is not much difference
The booster part is larger on the pl15 it's clearly a heavier and wider missile. 150-160km is a realistic prediction IMO. 250-300km is max range. But I doubt it can hit snythinf apart from awacs at that range..