Jammu & Kashmir live updates: GOI remove all provisions of Article 370

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_Anonymous_

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Delimitation process that they envisaged, although a rough draft, was quite promising.
The delimitation process also had a corollary. That of granting those 4-5 lakh Refugees from West Pakistan citizenship. Something that Article 370 prohibited. Incidentally Article 370 was silent on a few thousand refugees from Chinese Turkestan who fled to Kashmir following the CCP take over of China specifically the invasion of Xinjiang / Turkestan. They were granted citizenship on Sheikh Abdullah's request to Nehru who acquisesced.
 

BlackOpsIndia

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a similar gymnastics will be /could be performed by any future union government to settle scores with a troublesome state in the union....

In law making, bad means 'may' sometimes lead to good ends, but bad means 'will' definitely lead to bad ends. To sum up means is just as important as the end.
We will see.
 

_Anonymous_

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While this may be a discussion on Pakistani propaganda, I've just returned from viewing India Today's News at 9 hosted by Who else but Rajdeep Sardesai claiming a scoop on IT's local reporters discovering 2 persons injured in pellet firings in Srinagar's civil hospital.

The local reporter a Shuja ul Haq ( if memory served me right) clearly stated that the parents of a small girl with her eye bandaged as per the visuals , claimed that she was injured due to sling shot by the security personnel on 12 Aug immediately after the dispersal of the crowd gathered at a masjid for the Eid prayers.The move was allegedly unprovoked.

Sardesai immediately cut in with a clip of the Principal Secretary ( Home) of J&K who in a recording a few days earlier ( possibly the 9th Aug ) claiming no security personnel had shot any civilian, wondering if the said secretary was referring to bullets or pellets before getting the ground report from the concerned reporter.

The reporter upon questioning repeated what he said in his report that the said incident occurred on 12th Aug and the injury as claimed by the little girl's parents were from a sling shot. Sardesai winced, balked and changed the topic. I switched off the idiot box.
 
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vstol Jockey

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Thanks for the reply Sir, err.. one more question don't you think it would be wise for us to wait for few years untill we get some key weapon systems like rafale s400 BMD shield ak203 before we go for a final assault? Also by 2022 all the 8 dams will start functioning that we are building on Indus river that will provide us a strategic weapon too.
when we wait for those weapons, Pak will also get more weapons from China. Where and how will you break this sequence?
 

_Anonymous_

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Bro .. did you expect anything better from Rajdeep ?? Influence of @randomradio ;) ?
It is the desperation which comes thru very clearly. They aren't interested in Kashmir or Kashmiri welfare. They're desperate to prove Modi wrong by demonstrating how violence will break out and how this entire move to abrogate Article 370 was an ill conceived move more designed to disenfranchise the Kashmiri muslims in concurrence with Chidambaram's statement.

How then is majoritarianism okay in the valley and by extension the erstwhile state of J&K but to be questioned & condemned in the rest of India?
 
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when we wait for those weapons, Pak will also get more weapons from China. Where and how will you break this sequence?
Surely there economy is getting weaker day by day that is why it is convenient to suppose that this time they can't afford the countermeasures. Plus our defence industrial base is also growing at a rapid pace that is why we could better sustain the future wars whereas Pakistanis would be reliant on cumbersome and expensive foreign imports. Additionally some structural reforms like IBGs and strategic weapon of dams on Indus river will prove to be immensely useful which we can't have now. Your take sir?
 

Arvind

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I have already stated that I welcome the move to remove the special status, however I completely disapprove the Constitutional gymnastics the govt resorted to in order to accomplish it. As a result of this 'gymnastics' govt has set a precedence where a similar gymnastics will be /could be performed by any future union government to settle scores with a troublesome state in the union....

In law making, bad means 'may' sometimes lead to good ends, but bad means 'will' definitely lead to bad ends. To sum up means is just as important as the end.

Theoretically yes but practically not. For which state Indian establishment can rope in hundreds of thousands of armed forces personnel and lock it down without irking the general masses of India?

Unprecedented circumstances sometimes warrant unprecedented solutions. Infact it's good to have an option to deal with restive states with iron fist.
 

S. A. T. A

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How exactly did Article 370 find it's way into the Constitution ? I'm sure you're aware of it. If not, do read on it & let us know your views particularly when compared to the manner in which it was withdrawn.

This is precisely I'm wary of this rushed process to remove the provision (more significantly the creation of the UT)

Nehru used the aura of his political stature to browbeat any opposition to the Article 370, both within the cabinet and the parliament. Had Nehru allowed a dispassionate discussion on the provisions, I'm sure the lacuna in the bill, like not setting a date of lapse for the temporary provision, defining the successor to the constituent assembly, etc would noticed and remedies duly fleshed out.

What I'm afraid is history is being repeated. The Modi aura is preventing us from clearly perceive the danger posed by underhanded method that is being attempted to bring about significant constitutional changes, esp regarding state-center relationship.
 
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vstol Jockey

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Surely there economy is getting weaker day by day that is why it is convenient to suppose that this time they can't afford the countermeasures. Plus our defence industrial base is also growing at a rapid pace that is why we could better sustain the future wars whereas *censored* would be reliant on cumbersome and expensive foreign imports. Additionally some structural reforms like IBGs and strategic weapon of dams on Indus river will prove to be immensely useful which we can't have now. Your take sir?
Pakistan will continue to get weapons for free from China and other countries as it acts their henchman on our western border. Why do you think their economy has been able to run up such a huge debt? Anyother nation would have collapsed long back. The answer is simple. Pakistan is needed to do the dirty job for someone else. In 60 & 70s & 80s it was part of cold war and an ally of USA. After that in 90s it shifted close to China and now finally in their lap.
 

_Anonymous_

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This is precisely I'm wary of this rushed process to remove the provision (more significantly the creation of the UT)

Nehru used the aura of his political stature to browbeat any opposition to the Article 370, both within the cabinet and the parliament. Had Nehru allowed a dispassionate discussion on the provisions, I'm sure the lacuna in the bill, like not setting a date of lapse for the temporary provision, defining the successor to the constituent assembly, etc would noticed and remedies duly fleshed out.

What I'm afraid is history is being repeated. The Modi aura is preventing us from clearly perceive the danger posed by underhanded method that is being attempted to bring about significant constitutional changes, esp regarding state-center relationship.
I think your fears on what impact it may have over the rest of India on terms of center state relationship is exaggerated. What impact it has over Article 371 especially our negotiations with the NSCN over the status of Nagaland ought to be our immediate concern.

You may also want to look at the various attempts by Governments down the years from Nehru onwards to dilute Article 370. If the sole concern of the Kashmiris w.r.t this Article is loss of land to outsiders consequently turning them into a minority and losing their way of life, I think you ought to examine a similar provision that exists for Himachal Pradesh where outsiders are prohibited from buying property there.
 
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Pakistan will continue to get weapons for free from China and other countries as it acts their henchman on our western border. Why do you think their economy has been able to run up such a huge debt? Anyother nation would have collapsed long back. The answer is simple. Pakistan is needed to do the dirty job for someone else. In 60 & 70s & 80s it was part of cold war and an ally of USA. After that in 90s it shifted close to China and now finally in their lap.
Well I too want this war to happen now just wanted to clear some points. Thankyou for your answers. Ummm can you tell me did we buy R77-1 or simple R77 and the version of R 27 and are these missiles have been integrated in our aircrafts?
 

S. A. T. A

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I think your fears on what impact it may have over the rest of India on terms of center state relationship is exaggerated. What impact it has over Article 371 especially our negotiations with the NSCN over the status of Nagaland ought to be our immediate concern.

You may also want to look at the various attempts by Governments down the years from Nehru onwards to dilute Article 370. If the sole concern of the Kashmiris w.r.t this Article is loss of land to outsiders consequently turning them into a minority and losing their way of life, I think you ought to examine a similar provision that exists for Himachal Pradesh where outsiders are prohibited from buying property there.

It may be exaggerated, but in a democracy it serves to be ever vigilant. To quote Jefferson "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance".
 
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jetray

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The problem is in the valley and ignoring the valley will only result in further alienation of the people in the valley from the mainstream and further marginalize our influence in the valley. Right by detaining the mainstream leadership we have created a political vaccum, the separatist front will only be too happy to fill. While the lock down is understandable to maintain law and order, continued detention of mainstream political leaders is inexplicable. We are currently left with no interlocutor in the valleys political space who can speak on our behalf. There is no need to swell the ranks of forces inimical to India, any more than what it already is and that too from our own camp.
There are elements in the valley which are absolutely inimical to India and beyond the approaches of reform. They crossed the red line long time back when pandits were thrown out of the valley. Govt is taking these steps as a last resort, all other methods like peace talks have been tried and failed. Simply put there is no other alternative, being an optimist is ok but we also need to see the writing on the wall.
 
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vstol Jockey

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Well I too want this war to happen now just wanted to clear some points. Thankyou for your answers. Ummm can you tell me did we buy R77-1 or simple R77 and the version of R 27 and are these missiles have been integrated in our aircrafts?
They needed least amount of time for integration with no change in hardware and nearly nil change in software. Plus the newer versions are far more deadly than the previous ones bought about a decade back. If we have another airbattle, you will see the difference.
 
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They needed least amount of time for integration with no change in hardware and nearly nil change in software. Plus the newer versions are far more deadly than the previous ones bought about a decade back. If we have another airbattle, you will see the difference.
Thankyou sir. I know my continuous questioning may be getting annoying for you but please answer just one more question. Have we integrated meteors in mirage and what are we doing about our low numbers of AWACS.
 

Arvind

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Thankyou sir. I know my continuous questioning may be getting annoying for you but please answer just one more question. Have we integrated meteors in mirage and what are we doing about our low numbers of AWACS.

No we haven't. AFAIK we have not received any meteor which is part of Rafale deal.
 
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