_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,189
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Mumbai


To all those born in & after 1991 , pls do read this article. It gives you a good perspective on how we as a nation evolved, rose up & met severe challenges that many worldwide didn't expect us to meet up to or survive.

A cursory look at the nations keeping us company in that list should clarify any doubts. I may also add that a Readers Digest book of 1985 that I chanced upon more than a decade later had an article by The CIA Factbook which listed India along with Yugoslavia as two nations not expected to survive in its current form in the 21st century.

They held pretty much the same view about the former SU since the early 50's given their economic policies but were unsure when would if happen & it's fallout about which they were extremely apprehensive for obvious reasons. Iraq came onto their radar only in 1990 -91 after the 1st Gulf War. That's when the West started actively working on it's various fault lines.

You may also find this interesting & worth a revisit after all the time.

@vstol Jockey ; @Nilgiri ; @Milspec ; @suryakiran ; @Bali78
 
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vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
6,134
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New Delhi


To all those born in & after 1991 , pls do read this article. It gives you a good perspective on how we as a nation evolved, rose up & met severe challenges that many worldwide didn't expect us to meet up to or survive.

A cursory look at the nations keeping us company in that list should clarify any doubts. I may also add that a Readers Digest book of 1985 that I chanced upon more than a decade later had an article by The CIA Factbook which listed India along with Yugoslavia as two nations not expected to survive in its current form in the 21st century.

They held pretty much the same view about the former SU since the early 50's given their economic policies but were unsure when would if happen & it's fallout about which they were extremely apprehensive for obvious reasons. Iraq came onto their radar only in 1990 -91 after the 1st Gulf War. That's when the West started actively working on it's various fault lines.

You may also find this interesting & worth a revisit after all the time.

@vstol Jockey ; @Nilgiri ; @Milspec ; @suryakiran ; @Bali78
Such doomsday predictions for India have been right from 1947 when we became Independent. We all know that all of them have been proven wrong. And as India's GDP grows, India will continue to become stronger.
 

Cole_phelps

Well-Known member
Jun 19, 2019
702
832
India
The whole idea was to make Police open Fire and then it would have created a " Jallianwala Bagh Moment "

Sikhs weren't swinging their swords on Britishers in JWB.

Propaganda aside, every nation knows how much restraint Delhi police showed. Khalistanis tried to do politics over dead bodies. Can Indian sikhs ask Canadian or American ones that can they try to run over cops or block roads of capitals for months for any reason?

Rail roko Al-britannia style


This is what policing looks like, and explained.

 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,189
13,065
Mumbai
Now you will teach me about Sikhi, Sikhism and Sikhs🙃😁! And now a RSS guy make criticism of JATT Sikhs and Sikhi is beyond me. RSS promoted manuvadis and brahmins, which promoted castism, who has all Brahman heads except one high cast Rajput is teaching me about castism in Sikhs (I never know till about the cast background of Akaltakhat jathedar till date, similarly I never know the cast of RSS Head till recently, after the farmer agitation started). SGPC is controlled by SAD Badal faction a close aly of RSS for a long time. I am sure you can enlight us that RSS would have conveyed its reservations regarding plight of non Jatt Sikhs in Punjab and regarding non Jatt Sikh Jathedar!
Depends on what you consider Sikhi. I guess in these times anyone opposing you qualifies as an RSS person. You're in luck for barring the farmers from Punjab, Haryana & western UP ( most if not all of them exploited the MSP to offload their produce in the mandis of Haryana & Punjab) practically the entire farming community is in support of this move. I guess that makes all of them Sanghis or bhakts & since name calling & ad hominems is the name of the game, in their view you'd be a Khalistani.

Frankly, not a great RSS fan here but they do have their positives apart from their negatives weighing more on the former & l see them as a necessary evil in these times. Not that they need me or anyone to defend them, nor would I be interested in it but just to set the record straight the RSS is a private socio cultural organization. Whether they have only Brahmins as their members or as their head, it doesn't really matter as they aren't answerable to anybody in this land except that they conform to the Constitution which they did in an undertaking by Golwalkar to Sardar Patel.

The SGPC on the other hand is a government recognised public trust- a body charged with being the custodian of the shrines of a particular community which happens to be the Sikhs here & answerable to both the people they administer to as well as the government of the day . Perhaps you should be conversant of what the law says before jumping to conclusions.

You don't know the caste of the jathedars of the Akal Takht or the various CMs of the Punjab since it's reorganization since it doesn't suit your agenda. You see if ignorance of a particular fact doesn't harm you or is detrimental to your position when it doesn't affect you, why wouldn't you be ignorant. OTOH every Ramgarhia, Saini, Nirankari, Mazhabi etc is painfully aware of this fact . Hence the various Deras. The Ravidasiyas & Ad Dharmis have gone one step ahead & declared themselves a separate religion - vaqri quam. 😂

For all the venom JuttSikhi had & still does pour on Brahmins ever since the so called Singh Sabha reforms including Bhindranwale who repeatedly called IG dhee di putar to panditain, the same vocabulary resonates today as you very well put it, baniyas from Gujarat. Tomm you may have a similar problem with Rajputs or Ahirs or Gujjars or even fellow Hindu Jats & similar slogans would resonate.

Yet for all the anti caste sentiments expressed by Sikhs & it's Gurus ( & the Gurus were genuinely anti caste, so was the panth it attempted to create & so were the Panj Pyare initiated by Guru Gobind Singh ji, ) exactly, how caste free is JuttSikhi? A video below gives some idea.


As far as the RSS's stance on the rise of Christianity & conversions to their fold from Sikhi this article ought to come as an eye opener. Especially the role of the SAD ( & the Congress too though it's not explicitly mentioned here in this article.

On a personal note, a year back on a working cum business tour lasting 2 weeks in the Punjab after a long long time, I was shocked to note the presence of grand churches in practically every city & town across Punjab. They were even present in some of the most remote villages in the Majha Doab area, the extreme North & of course the Malwa region.

Old friends there confirmed what the article states that it's being done right under the noses of the administration with their connivance. I expect JuttSikhi thinks support for the church here means easy visas to Kaneda or some such convoluted thinking only your lot is capable of coming up .


Excerpts

The report points out that RSS has also found support from "gurdwaras and some members of the SAD-dominated Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC)." RSS leader Ram Gopa,l who heads the organisation’s Dharm Jagran unit, justified their programme and claimed that in some villages "the entire population had converted" to Christianity and that this was a threat to Sikhism.

One SGPC member Kiranjot Kaur, who has helped with these re-conversions agreed with Gopal's views and pointed out that Christianity was a serious threat to Sikhism.

It seems RSS has also made sure that lower castes,who re-convert to Hinduism, are not discriminated against and thus lured by Christianity all over again. Leaders of the outfit in the state claimed that they are training some lower castes to become priests, a privilege reserved for Brahmins.

But this re-conversion tactic has not gone down well with Shiromani Akali Dal (SAD), which is an ally of the BJP, points out the report, as the party "sees Dalit Christians as a vote bank." The report points out that even Chief Minister Prakash Singh Badal assured Christians that they would not allow “forcible conversions” in the city.

It should be noted that where RSS is concerned, its tendency to put Sikhism within the fold of Hinduism has meant that it is not viewed with great liking by 'orthodox Sikhs.' Of course where conversion is concerned, Punjab is not the only state where RSS and it's fringe-groups have claimed success.



Have you heard or read about any post where I mentioned cast? RSS has failed till know in its propaganda against Jatt Sikhs and would fail terribly in future too.
Answered this one. Scroll above. Frankly, the RSS hasn't once opposed the Jutt Sikhs or voiced any misgivings against them. They've never done so when under Bhindranwale's instructions, RSS members & shakhas were deliberately targeted for no other reason save being overt Hindu organizations & in a massive way in the aftermath of the Op BS, IG's assassination & the Delhi pogrom of Sikhs. In spite of bitter provocation by these terrorists the RSS never once took the bait of calling for retaliation against Sikhs or flinched from condemning the Congress pogrom in Delhi & other parts of N India in the aftermath of IG's assassination. Even in the recent last they've held their counsel in the wake of assassinations of high ranking RSS office bearers from the Punjab. You ought to know that more than anybody out here.

You should be aware of that there is very negligible presence of RSS ally Badal controlled SGPC (Jatt Sikh dominated as claimed by you) in farmer agitation.


Excerpts :

SAD’s dominance over SGPC

SAD had won the 1979 SGPC elections in which the hardliner Damdami Taksal and Dal Khlasa also contested unsuccessfully. This was followed by 1984 Operation Blue Star and militancy. The troubled period allowed Gurcharan Singh Tohra to become the longest serving president of SGPC. Tohra served as its chief for 26 years. The next SGPC elections were held in 1996 and it was followed by the formation of SAD government in the state in alliance with Bhartiya Janata Party in 1997.

This also started a new era where the appointment of SGPC president came to be decided by the party high command. The SAD high command allowed Avtar Singh Makkar, who was almost unknown in Akali politics, to become SGPC president in 2005 and he remained on the post for 11 years. Incumbent president Gobind Singh Longowal was also appointed by the party high command despite his limited experience with SGPC. 📣Click to follow Express Explained on Telegram

The present crisis


There have been no SGPC elections for the last nine years and the leadership has failed to act on the report about the 328 missing copies of Guru Granth Sahib, arguably the biggest issue to grip the body in recent times. This is why there have been unprecedented protests outside the SGPC office in Amritsar.


On the other hand, you must be aware of DSGPC (with negligible presence of Jatt Sikhs) is playing a prominent role and has large presence in farmer agitation!
I've remarked before that JuttSikhi has very successfully established the equation JuttSikhi= Sikhi. Therefore every issue in it's favour is automatically deemed as beneficial to Sikhi & every issue damaging to it is obviously something damaging to Sikhi . It's the 1970's & Dharam Yudh movement all over again. Except to your misfortune, there's no Longowal or Zail Singh / Darbara Singh, no IG & most importantly no Bhindranwale.

Its RSS/BJP worked its asses of to make it Sikh vs Hindu, but all in vain and don't worry future will have same outcome.
Yes. 26th Jan was obviously the handiwork of Sanghis / chaddis / bhakts. Do you have any more Santa Banta jokes?

I am culturally Sikh and will pass as Hindu 1000 time out of 1000. I was full of praises for tolerance of major part of Hindu religion. But now I think RSS creating a religious monster i.e. Pakistan on steroids, which is seriously damaging the unity of our country and different Indian communities just to remain in power.
Yawn.


Also, RSS worked hard to create differences between Jatt Sikhs with Non Jatt Sikhs, Sikhs vs Hindus in Punjab, but failed here too. Then tried to create differences between farmers of Punjab and haryana on SYL issue, then Sikh vs Non Sikh farmers, then small vs large farmers, then UP vs Punjab/Haryana, but every move of so called Kautilya failed in front of farmers unity!
Yawn + Yawn

Some issues you've raised were addressed earlier. The other sounds like conspiracy theories of the northern counterpart of Capt Ajith Vadakayil. Who's he? Make google your ally. You may find a kindred soul in him.

Btw the farmer's unity or Jutt landlords unity one was a real killer. You ought to share more such jokes.
Hindu religion is taken over by higher cast Hindus since long, they surviving by creating differences between Different Hindu casts. Majority SC, ST, OBC Hindus are being continuously marginalized by higher cast Hindus to keep hold on Power.
Yawn + Yawn + Yawn

I thought Guru Nanak Dev's teachings would be both irreverent & irrelevant were there no casteism among Hindus. As would a lot of other saints including Basavanna among a multitude of others. Would that be a good thing? Think hard & answer if you must.
But to surprise of everyone marginalized Hindus are awakening to this exploitation of so called higher casts, they are now understanding that they being used & exploited as vote bank till now.
Thanks for quoting what I wrote back to me. I wonder when will you reciprocate the sentiment for the underprivileged & exploited LC Sikhs just as your heart beats for their hindu counterparts.

Now you should smell the coffee, your days are numbered in power. Real Hindus started questioning demanding their fare share in power. Social media is educating them! Tell me, how many lower cast Hindus are their in Ram Janm Bhumi Mandir Shilaniyas Trust except one SC out 12 or 20 members.
I believe the head priest is to be a Dalit.




However, you're missing the wood for the trees here. Whatever the code in the Vedic age, castes & casteism had become an inalienable feature of Hinduism. This bane of Hinduism is what was counted as one of the reasons why natives converted to Abrahamic faiths
& Dharmic ones like Buddhism, Jainism & Sikhi.

What's the point of Sikhi & the other faiths if the converted are to face the same issues they did with their original faith? If any thing events coupled with Constitutional privileges have eroded casteism among the Hindus though there's still a long way to go.

OTOH, Sikhi started out as an anti casteist sect. How do you explain the presence of casteism in it? The fact is at the end of the day the reformist impulse in Hinduism prevailed. Why wasn't something similar observed in Sikhi wrt to the Mazhabis & other down trodden castes there?


You're merely parroting my views to me in the absence of a convincing point or argument. So let me ask you again why hasn't Punjab had a single non Jutt Sikh CM since Zail Singh & not a single Mazhabi Sikh as the Jathedar of the Akal Takht.

Now about agitation losing narrative war in masses, wake up this agitation is expanding in whole nation after initial set backs due of 26/01 concipiracy by govt goons and recovered completely.
You lost me at this point.I'm actually trying very hard to take you seriously & to curb my instincts to troll you.

Its after when BJP forced national channels to completely blackout the protest and ordered to propagate anti protest propaganda. But it had opposite effect, now talk to any villager he will tell you that it was BJP govts doing. Now just wait and watch, Modi-Shah-Ambani-Adani cartel going down.
Wake me up when it does.

Another thing, as far as electoral politics go, Punjab never mattered much in the electoral calculations of the BJP camp. They'd be even less today. Left unsaid is the fact that the reforms & other action to follow stays.
Now I am not going to answer your mental masturbation and mental gymnastics any more. If you want to discuss farmer protests topic any more, then post logically! Your propaganda will not work with me!
I was about to echo you for once . This feeling of superiority among JuttSikhs right from we saved your lot - if Hindus survive today it's coz of us , to taking the Hindus down a peg or two , to relentless attacks on overt symbols or organizations like the RSS or vicious abuses of Brahmins & against various traditions & practises among Hindus has to stop. This is where I differ from the RSS .They'd still prefer mollycoddlling your lot while I prefer taking your lot headlong. It seems Modi is doing exactly that in his own way . These laws would go a long way in addressing socialsocial injustice in Punjab when it happens & this will be remembered as a seminal moment in that history whenever it's written.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,189
13,065
Mumbai

Very Interesting Article theorising into the reason why Modi may have won the 2019 general election at the cost of state elections held around the same time where the BJP performance was sub par.