Indian Police (Special Units): SWAT & QRTs

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
887
413
Sorry a laughable answer + they were not formed for some fat babus or their ego (back then they wouldn't know abt security even if it hits them in their face)

AND you still didn't answer the question !? why the need for the NSG !? ... Ie Operationally (keeping politics out of it)

SPG?? ... are your serious - for CT and HRT roles?? .... Please read up on the role of the SPG and come back!

Dear Sir,

Your instructions received and understood. Perhaps you did not understand, or chose not to understand my reply: there is no need for the NSG.

Your laughter is also noted. I am humbly delighted to have brightened your day.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
887
413
India needs both (and I totally agree with removing large security contingents where they aren't necessary, it's a waste of taxpayer money). But it's a fact that India's police is underarmed, undertrained, underpaid and understaffed. And as a result, they are also very lax when it comes to their jobs and following rules and procedures, as well as notoriously corrupt, which then results in the sort of bad reputation and scorn they receive from common citizens. I am waiting for a Government that shows the will and ability to tackle this gargantuan problem (my best bet is if BJP wins in most states and stays in power at the Center, they might be able to do something).

To the degree of having identification and a database for such information (sort of like the driver's license and voter registration system here in the US), sure I agree with that. I also agree with officially registering your new address with the Government when you relocate (although this is bound to run into unique, India-specific problems, such as the case of people who live in illegal slums). But that alone is not the solution.

India needs a comprehensive rehaul of its police force, and that will also go a long distance towards fixing a lot of problems (and think about it, a bigger police force also means more job openings).

Dear Sir,

A cursory glance through the Dharma Vira Commission Report might enlighten a lot of dark corners. IMHO, there is no need to create a police state in our quest for security; democracies do not work that way. As it is, the BJP government has successfully undermined every institution that it could; giving them access to data with which to feed an already undermined institution such as the police (in its central avatar) is to put a lit match to a fuel dump.

Instead of more Rungroot Jojep Sulaiman type constables, we need better trained, better sensitised community friendly policemen.

We are zigging instead of zagging.

Of course, you are free to burst into laughter like the other learned gentleman.
 

RATHORE

Lion of Rajputana
Banned
Dec 2, 2017
1,654
1,949
USA
Dear Sir,

A cursory glance through the Dharma Vira Commission Report might enlighten a lot of dark corners. IMHO, there is no need to create a police state in our quest for security; democracies do not work that way. As it is, the BJP government has successfully undermined every institution that it could; giving them access to data with which to feed an already undermined institution such as the police (in its central avatar) is to put a lit match to a fuel dump.

Instead of more Rungroot Jojep Sulaiman type constables, we need better trained, better sensitised community friendly policemen.

We are zigging instead of zagging.

Of course, you are free to burst into laughter like the other learned gentleman.

I don't agree with the assertions regarding India becoming a police state or about BJP apparently being the enemy of institutions. The BJP has primarily undermined the institutional rot that had set in, and "Lutyens Media" type groups who had carved a niche for themselves within the system thanks to the patronage of previous, corrupt, left leaning political dispensations.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
887
413
Sorry for the Trouble and Misunderstanding

It was just a wild Guess on my part ; Your writing style was similar to Joe Shearer

Dear Sir, It is intriguing to read that a foreigner has an interest in Indian (or sub-continental) affairs. These days, the Americans have overshot the British. Your friend is probably a specialist in Indian legal matters.
 
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bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
887
413
I don't agree with the assertions regarding India becoming a police state or about BJP apparently being the enemy of institutions. The BJP has primarily undermined the institutional rot that had set in, and "Lutyens Media" type groups who had carved a niche for themselves within the system thanks to the patronage of previous, corrupt, left leaning political dispensations.

Dear Sir,

You may or may not agree, and you may put it in terms of a clique that may or may not exist; that is your opinion, to which each of us is entitled; however, there are reasons to think otherwise. If you wish, I can enumerate them, but do not wish to embarrass you.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
887
413
No he isn't, I talked to Joe on the other place, tried to get him to join. Not sure if he will.

@Hellfire

Dear Sir, Some intriguing details. What is 'the other place' that people are referring to? And who is taking up the time of redoubtable members like the gentleman above?
 

GuardianRED

Call Sign "RED"
Dec 2, 2017
510
405
Dear Sir,

Your instructions received and understood. Perhaps you did not understand, or chose not to understand my reply: there is no need for the NSG.

Your laughter is also noted. I am humbly delighted to have brightened your day.
and again you still haven't answer the question

Ie why the need for the NSG - operationally ! (again keep politics aside)

I laughed because you suggest that the SPG to do CT and HRT roles ... where you still haven't answer this question too - ie what is the role for the SPG?

What you are suggesting is having the FBI and local LE to do away with their HRT and SWAT teams and having the Secret service to do every thing!
 
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bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
887
413
He doesn't know what he's talking about, just likes to type out long, incredibly verbose statements (probably while holding a thesaurus in his hand) to show off an apparent understanding of English so that he can pretend to have intellectual depth. Unfortunately, the quality of his comments quickly debunks that notion. I recommend you don't waste time with this guy, or he'll "Dear Sir," you to death.

Dear Sir,

A hostile person might have defined that as 'wishful thinking'. On a point of personal curiousity, what did you mean by 'an apparent understanding of English'? I agree with you about the quality of my comments, incidentally.
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
887
413
Awwww, did I hurt your feelings Dear Sir? Or did I dent your last vestige of self esteem which seems deeply tied to the desperate need to intentionally speak in an incredibly verbose manner so that you can establish a facade of intelligence and sophistication Dear Sir?

Please feel free to contact a therapist as and when needed Dear Sir. And if you don't have the money Dear Sir. Let me know Dear Sir. I'll pay for it Dear Sir.

Now don't waste my time again, I'm not interested in communicating with you henceforth.

Dear Sir,

I humbly apologise. As @Hellfire will tell you, it is important to recognise one's friends and enemies alike. I will not give you further discomfort.
 
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nair

nair
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
1,824
2,760
Bangalore
Request all to discuss the topic, instead of the poster...... There will be difference of views, and that is the very basic of any forum...... But let us respect each other and focus on topic.....
 
F

Falcon

India needs both (and I totally agree with removing large security contingents where they aren't necessary, it's a waste of taxpayer money). But it's a fact that India's police is underarmed, undertrained, underpaid and understaffed. And as a result, they are also very lax when it comes to their jobs and following rules and procedures, as well as notoriously corrupt, which then results in the sort of bad reputation and scorn they receive from common citizens. I am waiting for a Government that shows the will and ability to tackle this gargantuan problem (my best bet is if BJP wins in most states and stays in power at the Center, they might be able to do something).

To the degree of having identification and a database for such information (sort of like the driver's license and voter registration system here in the US), sure I agree with that. I also agree with officially registering your new address with the Government when you relocate (although this is bound to run into unique, India-specific problems, such as the case of people who live in illegal slums). But that alone is not the solution.

India needs a comprehensive rehaul of its police force, and that will also go a long distance towards fixing a lot of problems (and think about it, a bigger police force also means more job openings).


Sir.

The basic role of the police force is to enforce the rule of law in a civil and non-lethal manner. The day the Indian Police start undertaking their designated roles seriously, there are ample laws to support them in their endeavour.

Biggest problem for any law enforcement agency remains in credibility. The threat of use of power has greater effect as opposed to use of power. A case in example is the formative years of the Syrian conflict. A disproportionate and rampant crackdown created enough fissures and disconnect between government, governance and the country that the exploitation of the same by detrimental powers (to the state) was but a foregone conclusion.

Similarly, Indian scenario demands a greater emphasis in policing, strengthening of LUs of the State and also a synergistic approach in law enforcement with commonality of data and DNA bank as also a nodal agency to act as a coordinator and not as as an administrator amongst various state police forces.

For that, the police needs to be shifted from a state pool to a central all India services pool, something that is not likely.

Additionally, a clear demarcation must exist on the scope of police forces. Example of US has been cited. The increased militarisation of US police forces was felt and is justified on the basis of lethal weapons available to common US citizen. That is not the case in India.

I
 
F

Falcon

Taking into your idea that it is better to have Army units forming CT and HRT roles ... Then Simply Question - Why was the need for the NSG to be formed?

Please answer!

Kind sir.

NSG has two aspects - SRG and SAG. The former is now more of a status symbol save for the SPG which provides cover to the PM and the latter has roles in terms of Anti-terror and anti-hijacking specialisation.

What you have missed by a mile is that the latter is exclusively army. Need I say more?
 

bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
887
413
Kind sir.

NSG has two aspects - SRG and SAG. The former is now more of a status symbol save for the SPG which provides cover to the PM and the latter has roles in terms of Anti-terror and anti-hijacking specialisation.

What you have missed by a mile is that the latter is exclusively army. Need I say more?

This is the basic foundation, that the good gentleman had missed. Thank you, Sir, very kindly.
 

GuardianRED

Call Sign "RED"
Dec 2, 2017
510
405
Kind sir.

NSG has two aspects - SRG and SAG. The former is now more of a status symbol save for the SPG which provides cover to the PM and the latter has roles in terms of Anti-terror and anti-hijacking specialisation.

What you have missed by a mile is that the latter is exclusively army. Need I say more?
What you missed by a mile is the earlier post by @bonobashi who question the need for Local QRT and NSG ...where in his words the Ghatak platoons from local army cantonment and SPG can go it better. Please do read up on earlier post!!

NSG -SAG and SRG .... like Duh!? u think i didn't know that!!?

and as usually @bonobashi fails to answer to why the NSG was formed and Needed!!

Hint: Mandate! and Role!
 
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bonobashi

Well-Known member
Dec 3, 2017
887
413
What you missed by a mile is the earlier post by @bonobashi who question the need for Local QRT and NSG ...where in his words the Ghatak platoons from local army cantonment and SPG can go it better. Please do read up on earlier post!!

NSG -SAG and SRG .... like Duh!? u think i didn't know that!!?

and as usually @bonobashi fails to answer to why the NSG was formed and Needed!!

Hint: Mandate! and Role!

Dear Sir,

That mandate and that role were born out of the wrong analyses and the wrong conclusions. I maintain, as I did, that there is no earthly use for the NSG.

There is nothing in a local QRT that prevents a local Ghatak platoon from matching its time of reaction; there is nothing in it that prevents a local Ghatak team from knowing all about the location and its proximity; there is above all nothing about a QRT that prevents it from decaying in the manner that all State government organisations, entities and bodies decay.