Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

I believe LG Ammo is easier to develop and cheaper than exorbitantly costly M982. It’s jusy another fancy item like rafale and F35.
LG ammo is used by Pakistanis quite frequently at LOC
@safriz

I’m not even sure if planes like JF17 and Mirage V etc are worth shooting with such costly AAMs .

Therefore I have always said that a missile like Akash Mk2 can deliver maximum punch per Rupee. An Akash mk2 like missile with between 1to 2 crore and 40 km + range can be ideal to bring down low cost missile like Mirage V or JF 17 or Chinese J series. MR SAM will be too costly.
We have also done mirror deployment.

Had we had baba kalyani light gun in place, balance would have further tilted in our favor.
 
Terrible State of Indian Artillery

George S. Patton famously said, “I do not have to tell you who won the war. You know, the artillery did.” There is a huge dilemma for the Indian artillery with this sentence. A nation that tries to maintain 3:1 ratio with Pakistan vis-à-vis its conventional firepower is reeling from decades of institutional inaction led obsolescence and some delays due to bizarre project planning and execution. Today as it stand, most of it’s prime artillery force is either decommissioned or in the state of dismay.
Current State
Following is the head to head comparison between towed artillery of India and Pakistan.
1*WxiJgOf8etaJjZ_Cdgasuw.png

India total towed strength on paper stands at 4150 compared to Pakistan’s 3278 which to begin with is a grave issue for a nation trying to maintain 1:3 ratio in conventional firepower against Pakistan. Add to the fact no one has the seen the S23 and D30 guns in action, neither does the Ordinance factory board produce any ammunition in 180mm and 122 mm calibers, that points to the fact these units are either mothballed or out of service. This brings the total strength of Indian towed artillery to 3500 units- almost neck and neck with a potential adversary where we supposedly brandish the term “numerical superiority”.
Heavy Artillery
Pakistan fields couple of dozen of 203mm gun, and POF still manufactures the ammunition as it also possess 203mm Sel Propelled Guns. Whereas Indian heavy guns are out of action. Although this is not big advantage as 155 mm guns can discharge the duties of heavier guns circa WWII.
155mm Towed Artillery
In the modern 155 mm towed howitzer head to head competition, Indian Army falls short of it’s objectives outgunning and outnumbering the opposition.
1*qgw_CXcVoAWQpTKVJOyQ1A.png

India posses a total of 380 155mm guns compared to 394 Guns of Pakistan. This is quite perplexing as India had originally purchased about 410 155 FH77/B guns from Sweden with tech transfer, and only 200 of them survive. This points towards cannibalization of existing guns due to lack of spares which is pure negligence. Today OFB is touting that they are producing Dhanush 155mm guns for the army, a reasonable Explanation is indeed needed for loosing half the fleet of FH77/B over the years, when we haven’t had such terrible luck with the m46. where almost the entire fleet remains intact.
1*zWMzLFuZH60K1wVy-4T6sQ.png

Another reason to worry is the transfer of technology from turkey to Pakistan in building the MKEK Panter, Pakistan is churning out about 30–40 guns every year of this kind, and most likely end up with about 350 units in next couple of year.
Metmorphosis gun has had tube blowouts a couple of time, so most likely it will run for the rest of it’s life as low ring charges to avoid such situations, which will most likely bring down it’s effective range from 39 km to about 25–28. So with the given inventory India does not possess the range or the numerical advantage over it’s Pakistani counterparts.
(On a side note, M46 has been a god-send Russian system for us, much like the Mig 21. It has lived past it’s age and still keeps running like a champ.)
Medium Artillery
When it came to medium artillery, India traditionally maintained heavy superiority against Pakistan with its 130mm and 122 mm cannons. Given Indian Army has decided to pull back all of it’s 122mm guns, Indian medium artillery looks abysmally weak in the comparison to Pakistani medium artillery. India has about 720 M46 130mm medium guns left in service, whereas Pakistan’s 130mm M46 clones and 122 mm variants stand at a staggering 1243 units, almost 500 more medium guns than India.
1*2GpO9PW32B6XqhE5Eq8KqA.png

And this ratio will continue to skew as we eat into long range M46’s and turn them into short range 155mm upgrade. Another aspect t note is Pakistani army’s Type 54 is a 21 Caliber (Length) gun, i.e it’s shorter and highly mobile gun. India on the other hand has chosen not to field any short range, highly mobile medium sized gun which can be used for border escalations.
1*zdjJLEuGclpseQkyeGs8eA.png

Light Artillery
The only area where India posses an edge is in the light artillery with is indigenous 105mm work horses IFG and LFG units. India posses about 2400 field guns compared to 1643 guns comprising of 105 mm, 85mm and quarter pounders that Pakistan fields.
1*su0xfWxBqEHuoU8KN0weuw.png

1*PDEKYBIi9GxgFA6uKTUHTg.png

One of the major advantages of the Indian Field Guns is the barrel length of 37 Caliber which is longer than all of the comparable 105mm Pakistani light Artillery, which gives it a significant range advantage. Also the Light Field Gun is highly mobile and offsets the portability of the 85mm guns of the adversary. This is one area where Indian army truly outguns the opposition in both range, effectiveness and inventory.
Future State
Indian Army seems to have made up it’s mind on consolidating 155 mm in different length-calibers as it mainstay in towed artillery. A 1600 towed gun contract seems to point at the same. Given Pakistans 155mm and Medium gun combined strength will stand at around 1900 guns in next 3–5 years, if Indian army want’s to pitch a 2:1 ratio it will need a combined strength of atleast 4000 guns.
Gap Analysis
As the 155mm inventory strength today stands at a measly 380 units, Indian establishment will still have a shortfall of about 2000 guns if it wants to get to a 1:2 ratio vis-a-vis Pakistan. With consolidation large and medium artillery Indian Army will need substantial efforts in converting most of it’s m46 fleet with a proven barrel solution for the Beas/Metamorphosis Program which can add another 700 odd 155 mm modified guns to the inventory. the 1600 towed artillery system will need a revamp or even an introduction of another system along side the one chosen to get similar advantages as we have gained in local production of IFG and LFG guns. Given that India doesn’t struggle in the Light Artillery, upgrade programs on 105mm LGF, along with catapult and kalyani Garuda ultralight guns can turn the Light Artillery into more efficient unit.
Conclusion
Indian Artillery is in extremely poor state, and the red tape with acquisition of artillery system has put the lifes of our soldiers to risk. Given that half of the medium artillery is out of commission, and prime front line FH77/B fleet has been cannibalized to half it’s size, it is of utmost importance to fast track both the development and the acquisition Processes for the towed artillery. Success story of the 105mm light Artillery has already set the precedence for Indian Army to follow local production of artillery system to be replicated in the 155mm category.

Written by @Milspec

There need to be an evaluation of decession making process. What if we shorten procurement time without wasting a long time on testing. It should be evaluated weather such a Long testing and evaluation time results into any fruitful outcome or that lengthy process harms Indian forces' inventory by delaying each and every procurement. A systematic statistical study will reveal weather this sort of procedures are fruitful aur not.
 
I have been in Canada for less than 2 years and before that I was in India itself. As far as economic compulsion of Indian government goes; here is what India government and state governments are doing.

Building massive statues costing several hundreds of million dollars. Remember that Patel Statue? Upcoming Shivaji Statue? This could easily run near a billion dollars. Meanwhile our artillery suffers. For a 10 times bigger economy, we don't even have TWICE the artillery pieces of Pakistan.

A billion dollar would have been quite useful in purchasing quite a bit of artillery pieces and ammunition.

State govts are heading those statue projects. They don't care about India's artillery problems.
 
Didn't you guys buy some Italian guided munitions for your mortars??
Its expensive and unwanted.
I don't think Pakistan made any such purchase.
It was only reported by Indian media back in 2018.
The most "Fancy" thing in field artillery we got are the Base bleed rounds which is Just an add on gas cartridge to an existing 155mm shell.
General Kayani made some significant decisions about Artillery. Most important was to phase put all other calibre and make 155mm the standard.
It was in his era that base bleed factory was set up at POF Wah.
 
Leave Bars, likes of OFB have been sitting on Bofors blueprints since 1980s and have not even bothered to produce that artillery piece. Arty is one of the weak foot of Indian Army and Indian government manufactures are sitting on the blueprint of an inducted arty without doing anything.

View attachment 16947
We are again making the same mistake with artillery. K9 has ordered only in 100 numbers, GOI is not giving further orders. The production facilities & technical know how gonna waste now.
 
Terrible State of Indian Artillery

George S. Patton famously said, “I do not have to tell you who won the war. You know, the artillery did.” There is a huge dilemma for the Indian artillery with this sentence. A nation that tries to maintain 3:1 ratio with Pakistan vis-à-vis its conventional firepower is reeling from decades of institutional inaction led obsolescence and some delays due to bizarre project planning and execution. Today as it stand, most of it’s prime artillery force is either decommissioned or in the state of dismay.
Current State
Following is the head to head comparison between towed artillery of India and Pakistan.
1*WxiJgOf8etaJjZ_Cdgasuw.png

India total towed strength on paper stands at 4150 compared to Pakistan’s 3278 which to begin with is a grave issue for a nation trying to maintain 1:3 ratio in conventional firepower against Pakistan. Add to the fact no one has the seen the S23 and D30 guns in action, neither does the Ordinance factory board produce any ammunition in 180mm and 122 mm calibers, that points to the fact these units are either mothballed or out of service. This brings the total strength of Indian towed artillery to 3500 units- almost neck and neck with a potential adversary where we supposedly brandish the term “numerical superiority”.
Heavy Artillery
Pakistan fields couple of dozen of 203mm gun, and POF still manufactures the ammunition as it also possess 203mm Sel Propelled Guns. Whereas Indian heavy guns are out of action. Although this is not big advantage as 155 mm guns can discharge the duties of heavier guns circa WWII.
155mm Towed Artillery
In the modern 155 mm towed howitzer head to head competition, Indian Army falls short of it’s objectives outgunning and outnumbering the opposition.
1*qgw_CXcVoAWQpTKVJOyQ1A.png

India posses a total of 380 155mm guns compared to 394 Guns of Pakistan. This is quite perplexing as India had originally purchased about 410 155 FH77/B guns from Sweden with tech transfer, and only 200 of them survive. This points towards cannibalization of existing guns due to lack of spares which is pure negligence. Today OFB is touting that they are producing Dhanush 155mm guns for the army, a reasonable Explanation is indeed needed for loosing half the fleet of FH77/B over the years, when we haven’t had such terrible luck with the m46. where almost the entire fleet remains intact.
1*zWMzLFuZH60K1wVy-4T6sQ.png

Another reason to worry is the transfer of technology from turkey to Pakistan in building the MKEK Panter, Pakistan is churning out about 30–40 guns every year of this kind, and most likely end up with about 350 units in next couple of year.
Metmorphosis gun has had tube blowouts a couple of time, so most likely it will run for the rest of it’s life as low ring charges to avoid such situations, which will most likely bring down it’s effective range from 39 km to about 25–28. So with the given inventory India does not possess the range or the numerical advantage over it’s Pakistani counterparts.
(On a side note, M46 has been a god-send Russian system for us, much like the Mig 21. It has lived past it’s age and still keeps running like a champ.)
Medium Artillery
When it came to medium artillery, India traditionally maintained heavy superiority against Pakistan with its 130mm and 122 mm cannons. Given Indian Army has decided to pull back all of it’s 122mm guns, Indian medium artillery looks abysmally weak in the comparison to Pakistani medium artillery. India has about 720 M46 130mm medium guns left in service, whereas Pakistan’s 130mm M46 clones and 122 mm variants stand at a staggering 1243 units, almost 500 more medium guns than India.
1*2GpO9PW32B6XqhE5Eq8KqA.png

And this ratio will continue to skew as we eat into long range M46’s and turn them into short range 155mm upgrade. Another aspect t note is Pakistani army’s Type 54 is a 21 Caliber (Length) gun, i.e it’s shorter and highly mobile gun. India on the other hand has chosen not to field any short range, highly mobile medium sized gun which can be used for border escalations.
1*zdjJLEuGclpseQkyeGs8eA.png

Light Artillery
The only area where India posses an edge is in the light artillery with is indigenous 105mm work horses IFG and LFG units. India posses about 2400 field guns compared to 1643 guns comprising of 105 mm, 85mm and quarter pounders that Pakistan fields.
1*su0xfWxBqEHuoU8KN0weuw.png

1*PDEKYBIi9GxgFA6uKTUHTg.png

One of the major advantages of the Indian Field Guns is the barrel length of 37 Caliber which is longer than all of the comparable 105mm Pakistani light Artillery, which gives it a significant range advantage. Also the Light Field Gun is highly mobile and offsets the portability of the 85mm guns of the adversary. This is one area where Indian army truly outguns the opposition in both range, effectiveness and inventory.
Future State
Indian Army seems to have made up it’s mind on consolidating 155 mm in different length-calibers as it mainstay in towed artillery. A 1600 towed gun contract seems to point at the same. Given Pakistans 155mm and Medium gun combined strength will stand at around 1900 guns in next 3–5 years, if Indian army want’s to pitch a 2:1 ratio it will need a combined strength of atleast 4000 guns.
Gap Analysis
As the 155mm inventory strength today stands at a measly 380 units, Indian establishment will still have a shortfall of about 2000 guns if it wants to get to a 1:2 ratio vis-a-vis Pakistan. With consolidation large and medium artillery Indian Army will need substantial efforts in converting most of it’s m46 fleet with a proven barrel solution for the Beas/Metamorphosis Program which can add another 700 odd 155 mm modified guns to the inventory. the 1600 towed artillery system will need a revamp or even an introduction of another system along side the one chosen to get similar advantages as we have gained in local production of IFG and LFG guns. Given that India doesn’t struggle in the Light Artillery, upgrade programs on 105mm LGF, along with catapult and kalyani Garuda ultralight guns can turn the Light Artillery into more efficient unit.
Conclusion
Indian Artillery is in extremely poor state, and the red tape with acquisition of artillery system has put the lifes of our soldiers to risk. Given that half of the medium artillery is out of commission, and prime front line FH77/B fleet has been cannibalized to half it’s size, it is of utmost importance to fast track both the development and the acquisition Processes for the towed artillery. Success story of the 105mm light Artillery has already set the precedence for Indian Army to follow local production of artillery system to be replicated in the 155mm category.

Written by @Milspec
Why we are not giving more orders for K9? It believed to be one of the best Tracked artillery piece, mere 100 is not at all justified.
 
We are again making the same mistake with artillery. K9 has ordered only in 100 numbers, GOI is not giving further orders. The production facilities & technical know how gonna waste now.
Indeed. We have money for building statues of all sorts but not for arty.
 
Bharat Forge artillery gun in final trials before sale to Indian Army

One of four artillery guns developed by Bharat Forge is learnt to have reached the final stage of testing with the Indian Army.

During a recent analyst call after the announcement of the Pune-based company’s June quarter financial results, a top official said that all four gun platforms developed by it are in various stages of trials.

“We have gone through four sets of trials for the first gun and three sets of trials for the second gun. Once the last phase of trials is over we are ready for the sale process to begin,” said Amit Kalyani, Deputy Managing Director, Bharat Forge.

1597900869649.png

Reducing import dependence

Bharat Forge is set to benefit hugely from the reform initiative kick-started by the Ministry of Defence wherein restrictions have been imposed on import of 101 weapons and military platforms. The initiative, announced on August 9, includes artillery guns.

The towed artillery gun (155mm x 52 Calibre), which is part of the import embargo, has been developed by Bharat Forge. Called Bharat 52 and classified as an Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS), it is the first gun built by the Kalyani Group.

Weighing 15 tonnes, Bharat 52 has a firing range of more than 48 km and has a self-propelled ground speed of 20 km per hour. It can fire six rounds in 30 seconds.

ATAGS is considered to be one of the most advanced field artillery systems in the world but India is yet to induct them. In 2016 India ordered 145 howitzers (also an artillery gun) from the US for $750 million. The 155mm x 39 calibre ultra-light howitzers have a range of 24-39 km, which is much lower than the Bharat 52 ATAGS.

With the private sector being allowed to take part in defence production, Indian companies have been keen participants. In 2018, Mahindra Defence tied up with US-based BAE Systems to manufacture M777 howitzers.

Ashok Leyland is engaged in making Field Artillery Tractors, which are also in the 101 restricted items.

Fully local

“All the products that we are making are 100 percent local — they are 100 percent designed, engineered and developed locally. Three artillery guns are in advanced stages of testing. One is in the final stage of testing — it has gone through all the tests; it is the user test which is now going on this month,” Kalyani added.

The Indian Army is reportedly looking to procure about 150 ATAGS. Depending on the add-ons and the level of technology, each ATAGS can be priced up to Rs 15 crore, said Kalyani.

“The products that we have focussed on, all of them are meant for domestic manufacturing. And in certain products such as artillery guns, it is very clear that there is nobody as competitive as us either in technology or on an overall basis, so we are looking forward to the conclusion of our final trials,” he added.

Three-horizon strategy
1597900859653.png

Bharat Forge is following what it calls a three-horizon strategy. Horizon One has products such as artillery guns, some armoured vehicles, and some speciality vehicles. Horizon Two also has specialty vehicles. Horizon Three has electronics and high-end technology.

“Now, based on the announcements, we will deepen our capability within these product segments and add strength in areas that we need. But I do not think we are going to go into newer areas like building ships” said Kalyani.

Bharat Forge is also looking for markets outside India for its military hardware. But, with riders. “Selling defence items to a responsible nation like India is easy. Now, there are many countries that buy weapons where we do not know what they do with it. India has never been an aggressor anywhere, so I want to sell to places where it is safe to sell and where it is advisable to sell.” said Kalyani.

Bharat Forge artillery gun in final trials before sale to Indian Army
First rockets produced by private sector successfully test fired
1597900933009.png


In a major boost for Make in India, the first ever rockets fully manufactured by the private sector have been successfully test fired by the army, signalling that single source dependency on Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) will soon be a thing of the past.

The Pinaka rockets were tested at a firing range in Pokharan on Wednesday and achieved the desired results by accurately hitting targets. The rockets have been manufactured by the private sector after a technology transfer agreement with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

Sources said that six Pinaka rockets were test fired as part of the final developmental trials. The rockets have been manufactured by Economic Explosives Ltd (EEL) and are the first munition of its kind made by the private sector in India. They are also a success story for DRDO that has been engaging with the private sector to transfer manufacturing technology for home developed systems.

1597900944835.png

In the past, munitions of this class have either been imported or have been manufactured by the public sector, with repeated complaints of failure by the armed forces. As part of the Make in India drive and push for the private sector in defence manufacturing, the Pinaka technology was transferred five years ago, with a decision taken to split further orders evenly with OFB. The army has a large requirement for rockets of this class, which is pegged at over 1,000 units annually. The Pinaka is a home developed multi barrel rocket launcher system that is already in service with the Indian Army. An order for two additional Pinaka regiments has been under process since 2017, which will be made by L&T and Tata Aerospace and Defence for an estimated Rs 4,500 cr.

The armed forces have been looking at creating alternate sources for munitions to reduce dependency on OFB that has had a mixed track record. Industry estimates peg that privately manufactured munitions of different variety would cost 20-30% cheaper than the OFB fixed pricing.

DRDO has also successfully tested an extended range guided Pinaka rocket that can hit targets at a distance of 75 km, a significant boost from the current range of 40 km.

First rockets produced by private sector successfully test fired
 
It is wrong to compare M777 range with a 52 calibre gun.

And with Dhanush 52 also in works , it's gonna be a really tough sell for Bharat 52 to make cut. It will come down to per unit cost.

ATAGS is still some time away.