Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Silly article with old news.


The only thing of importance is here:
“I don’t think ATAGS is the alternative for urgent operational requirements,” says Lt General P. Ravi Shankar, former DG, artillery, who was involved in the design and development of both indigenous guns. “Why is a combat-proven gun system like the Dhanush not being operationalised despite production orders being given over a year ago? The programme needs hard decisions. If the Dhanush has a problem, it needs to be fixed. Call the original Bofors designers if need be,” he says.
 

Hydra

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Silly article with old news.


The only thing of importance is here:
“I don’t think ATAGS is the alternative for urgent operational requirements,” says Lt General P. Ravi Shankar, former DG, artillery, who was involved in the design and development of both indigenous guns. “Why is a combat-proven gun system like the Dhanush not being operationalised despite production orders being given over a year ago? The programme needs hard decisions. If the Dhanush has a problem, it needs to be fixed. Call the original Bofors designers if need be,” he says.
Its pity that fan boy cannot accept the fact that most of the indigenous products are either failure or ridiculously delayed.
Its sad that people still want to entertain mod & research lab again and again when our artillery needs urgent modernisation.
Funny thing is that indians & Indian defense forums are the only such elite group in world who ridiculing its own armed forces for pursuing induction of top end weapons. Can you imagine/find a pakistani calling its military corrupt for purchasing weapons from abroad from a reputed OEM when their in-house platform is not ready or shrouded with failures? No? Can u find any one other than indians who questions their own military for conducting field trials on new weapons? Answer is no.
 
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jetray

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Can you imagine/find a pakistani calling its military corrupt for
sheesh you lost the argument there. There are no holy cows in India not even from the current ruling party. Very fact you are able to provide your opinion is only bcos it is a democracy, just dont cut the branch you are standing on.
 
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randomradio

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Its pity that fan boy cannot accept the fact that most of the indigenous products are either failure or ridiculously delayed.
Its sad that people still want to entertain mod & research lab again and again when our artillery needs urgent modernisation.
Funny thing is that indians & Indian defense forums are the only such elite group in world who ridiculing its own armed forces for pursuing induction of top end weapons. Can you imagine/find a pakistani calling its military corrupt for purchasing weapons from abroad from a reputed OEM when their in-house platform is not ready or shrouded with failures? No? Can u find any one other than indians who questions their own military for conducting field trials on new weapons? Answer is no.

Anything that's being developed has a gestation period and the people on this forum are merely underestimating the gestation period.

There is a need to understand the issues pragmatically rather than have blind faith. Especially so when only dealing with the words of the seller and ignoring the words of the army. This is very important right now considering the slew of anti-army articles that have been cropping up over the last few years.

People actually do not understand that the DRDO actually has a lot of power. And if ATHOS is inducted, it's because DRDO allowed it to happen. It's the same reason why DRDO did not allow the import of short range SAMs for the army. And it appears they have vetoed the IN's SRSAM requirement for the Kamorta as well. DRDO actually has a say in whatever the forces are importing as long as DRDO has a project running in parallel. So, always, if DRDO has an ongoing project and the forces have bought something from ourside, it's because DRDO allowed it to happen. The same reason why even the Spike deal died.

The domestic lobby has always been more powerful than the import lobby.

Only emergency financial powers allowed the forces to ignore DRDO's veto to a certain extent, which has helped plug major holes in our inventory up to a limited capacity. Without it, we would have been really worse off right now. I am actually hoping that after the theaterisation process is complete, the CDS gets 10% of the capital budget for such emergency purchases. Having the capability is more important than its point of origin.
 
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Milspec

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I remember and have already addressed it.

Some things are needed beforehand. Pouring money into its desperately won't get you results.
Some things can be inducted even during one. Pouring enough money into it solves the problem.

It takes 2-3 years to fully train a pilot, then half a lifetime to actually get good. Most gunners take a month or two to be qualified. Not equal problems.
Not really though right,

the narrative you presented was quite simple, : So what there is delays in Arty projects and procurements, there is no war either, right?
All these khayali pulao of SOKO will sell a bunch of their reserves is straight of of kuku land. The only countries that give India emergence procurement stuff remain russia and israel.
 

Hydra

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there is no war either, right?
No war? Our 60k+ soldiers are facing chinese in ladakh. Chinese still holding sime of our areas? If you sees we are not in a state if war now, technically you may be right. But in regality we are.
 

Milspec

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No war? Our 60k+ soldiers are facing chinese in ladakh. Chinese still holding sime of our areas? If you sees we are not in a state if war now, technically you may be right. But in regality we are.
context fail. Read again in its entirety.
 
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randomradio

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Not really though right,

the narrative you presented was quite simple, : So what there is delays in Arty projects and procurements, there is no war either, right?
All these khayali pulao of SOKO will sell a bunch of their reserves is straight of of kuku land. The only countries that give India emergence procurement stuff remain russia and israel.

Nah, while I support indigenous programs, they take their own sweet time. So we gotta let them take that time. In the meantime, we need to bolster our forces with quick inductions from outside that's enough to fight a limited war.

There needs to be a balance between minimum capability and indigenous capability. Majority of the military needs indigenous equipment, but when it comes to minimum capability we need to get it regardless of origin. As of 2017, 145 M777s, 100 K9s, 114 Dhanush and 400 ATHOS would have given us the minimum capability required for both fronts.

As of 2022, only the first 2 imports will be achieved. When I made that comment, it was with the expectation that the 400 guns contract will go through and that we will have all the 114 Dhanush guns along with a third to half the ATHOS by 2022.

I'm a very strong proponent of inducting minimum capabilities for urgent operational requirements without worrying about the source. 400 ATHOS is part of that. Especially so when it's cheaper than all indigenous options.

People forget that the alternative for ATHOS is not ATAGS or Bharat 52, it's Dhanush.

“I don’t think ATAGS is the alternative for urgent operational requirements,” says Lt General P. Ravi Shankar, former DG, artillery, who was involved in the design and development of both indigenous guns.

300 52 cal guns (15 regiments) were supposed to follow the initial lot of 114 (6 regiments), but not even 1 regiment has been delivered. OFB's promise of timely delivery is as reliable as the sun rising in the west.

Promises, promises. Excuses, excuses.
“The first regiment of 18 guns will be in place by March 2020. We will get another 36 guns by March 2021 and another 40 by March 2022. The entire order for 114 guns will be completed by 2022,” an Army source said.

Basically what you complained about was not the source of the guns. So, on that account we are on the same page. What we differed on was the scale of the orders placed given the size of our military. The scale will come in through ATAGS and MGS, everything else is just about having minimum capability, which is meant to not have scale. But we are already failing on that front.

As for Korea, I doubt it's gonna be difficult to get access. Many K9s are kept in reserve/storage, waiting for a war that's unlikely to happen over the next 5 years.
 
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randomradio

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That was not your statement. High altitude trials are done. The remaining will be done this year itself according to plan.

That doesn't make sense. The plains trials need to finish before the army takes it to high altitude.

There are different kinds of trials.

Even your article says the same:
Confirmatory desert trials of the...
...validation trials at high altitude areas...


It's obvious that they are talking about different things.

Industry sources said that the most significant achievement during the second phase of PSQR Winter Trials was moving the guns to the Northern-most point of operational area (Lukrep) in the Plateau areas of North Sikkim.

It's a different set of trials.
 

Tatvamasi

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Jan 5, 2018
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That doesn't make sense. The plains trials need to finish before the army takes it to high altitude.

There are different kinds of trials.

Even your article says the same:
Confirmatory desert trials of the...
...validation trials at high altitude areas...


It's obvious that they are talking about different things.

Industry sources said that the most significant achievement during the second phase of PSQR Winter Trials was moving the guns to the Northern-most point of operational area (Lukrep) in the Plateau areas of North Sikkim.

It's a different set of trials.
This point being Preliminary Specifications Qualitative Requirements (PSQR) trials were done at Sikkim. On the basis of which they will order LSP.

Your statement was that no high altitude trials were done. in fact, only trial on plains is pending which is ongoing.

Vested interest circulating fake news to support the import of Israeli stuff. what else.

The-gun-battle-inside-South-Block-Defence-News-Issue-Date-Jun-28-2021.png
 
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Chain Smoker

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This point being Preliminary Specifications Qualitative Requirements (PSQR) trials were done at Sikkim. On the basis of which they will order LSP.

Your statement was that no high altitude trials were done. in fact, only trial on plains is pending which is ongoing.

Vested interest circulating fake news to support the import of Israeli stuff. what else.

View attachment 20019
He is a dalal just look at his posts on pak/fa thread how desperately he shills for that crap.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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This point being Preliminary Specifications Qualitative Requirements (PSQR) trials were done at Sikkim. On the basis of which they will order LSP.

Your statement was that no high altitude trials were done. in fact, only trial on plains is pending which is ongoing.

Vested interest circulating fake news to support the import of Israeli stuff. what else.

View attachment 20019

I believe army trials are conducted based on SQRs, not PSQRs.
 

suryakiran

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Dec 1, 2017
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Yeah, but I don't think getting a faster reload will help a lot since even the T-90s will need manual reloads after battle.

But if we assume 3 K10s per regiment, then we could be talking about just 15. It could easily slip under media coverage.

If you can fine something, then great, but I think you would be wasting time. I'm sure the IA would prefer one more regiment of K9s over the K10.

The K9 itself doesn't have an autoloader. One is in development.

K 10 was not part of the procurement. Checked with someone in the know.
 
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