I understand national pride, I have it myself and the F-15 getting slapped is a good story, Even though it didn't happen before or since with 4th gen
There was a push to cancel the F-22, which succeeded, How these exercises work is that the US increases pressure through the exercise as skills improve, Were they caught off guard, from the last exercise? Possibly,,
The story is,,,The fact that the USAF made a big point of releasing and amplifying it, is what is out off the ordinary for them and I can't think of another example, but you are welcome to show me
As I said, the US, UK and Australia doesn't release results, I have also not seen India release results, At the last Australian Pitch Black, I only saw that Singapore release any results, That of their F-15 getting slapped by F-35, Deja vu
These are training exercises, not a dick measuring
Among the best, is different to saying the best,
You felt the need to say, For sure? We imported exchange pilots/instructor from the UK, US and others, We have exchange pilots/instructors and have sent ours overseas, Including to the US, who became an instructor on the F-22, It's not uncommon
So the UK is having an exchange programme with India, it can only be for the betterment of both nations
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I've never questioned the skills, and in exercises both sides have old hands and new pilots obtaining skills
It's an exchange and India pays the wages of 2 pilots/instructors for 3 years on the BAE Hawk,
Skills are learned and shared by both sides, For 2 to slot straight in, there may have been a shortage? I hope it is extended and other pilots/instructors rotate through
I give it no more or less weight, than Australian pilots flying and instructing on the F-22, It's the same thing, different platforms
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Based on news reports, the RAF can barely spare any pilots for overseas training at the moment. It is busy borrowing foriegn instructors for its own training needs.
Besides, an entire generation of Indian pilots have been trained on the Hawk Mk132 already. Why on earth would we need Brit exchange pilots anymore?
That may well be true
That isn't how it works, The UK exchange pilot/instructor would learn the way India instructs and instructs that way and fit into the team, The same as your instructors would train in the UK way, It's the way exchanges work You can't have people doing their own thing
The only narrative is that the Americans deliberately lost(another cope by the Americans).. There's no national pride. The same story is given when the French Rafale took out an f-22 in a joint exercise. Saying the f-22 pilots were amateurs instead of being caught off-guard. The same cope is given when the swedes take out the Americans SSN's in naval exercise. The Americans love to cope through various stories.I understand national pride, I have it myself and the F-15 getting slapped is a good story, Even though it didn't happen before or since with 4th gen
There was a push to cancel the F-22, which succeeded, How these exercises work is that the US increases pressure through the exercise as skills improve, Were they caught off guard, from the last exercise? Possibly,,
The story is,,,The fact that the USAF made a big point of releasing and amplifying it, is what is out off the ordinary for them and I can't think of another example, but you are welcome to show me
As I said, the US, UK and Australia doesn't release results, I have also not seen India release results, At the last Australian Pitch Black, I only saw that Singapore release any results, That of their F-15 getting slapped by F-35, Deja vu
These are training exercises, not a dick measuring
The humiliation of losing to a mig 21 was so much (considering the Americans built the f-15 in response to the much faster and capable mig 25) that they had to make elaborate stories of using the event to justify the f-22 when in fact the f-22 was in development since the early 80's around the same timeline as the rafale and typhoons. Same reasoning comes for losing in Vietnam. (Oh, we just got bored. When in fact a million South Vietnamese had already died along with 60000 American soldiers)
As well as the swedes, the Aussies sub had done the same, it's the reason they leased a diesel sub, But again in exercises they turn things off and remove defensive rings, it's not easy when they systems are in place
Wow another nonsense story, The Rafale never took out a F-22,
but anything can happen in exercises, I know a super Hornet growler Took out a F-22 and an Aussie F-111 took out a F-16
This French pilot gives a good account, even with the French bias. The Rafale never got a gun kill.
He repeats numerous times. IT'S GUNS ONLY. (The F-22 takes the defensive and Rafale the aggressive position.)
1:50 Ate says the F-22 reverses its turn making it easy for the Rafale. which fires an IR , which cannot be claimed as it is guns only. (In actual fact, I think the F-22 was maneuvering to wash off speed to let the Rafale come within range for the dogfight.)
4:00 R calls Fox 2. (That really excited the fanboys) ..It's a practice shot, Ate said he called it out of habit and doesn't count as it is guns only.
5:00 Ate says he switches to guns.
6:00 Ate says about HMS and HOBS, The f-22 and Rafale doesn't ...(but just about everything else does.)
6:40 Ate says Rafale doesn't have the nose authority to follow the F-22. the f-22 can move.
9:00 Ate says the Rafale is at 80kts and below the 100kts minimum. :mrgreen: ( the Rafale stalled out and was sitting there like a duck.)
11:40 Ate says the F-22 outperforms the Rafale and closes the door. ( Of course it does.)
12:20 Ate says: "Not enough energy for the Rafale, missing a few kts"..... (The Rafale can't regain energy quickly. The F-22 most certainly can and is one of the few planes that can.)
12:40 The F-22 stops the fight and retreats. The Rafale is below the stall speed at 80 kts ( again. :mrgreen: the thing is a slug.)
14:00 Rafale continues and picks up speed, has a good position on the F-22, the Rafale does not trigger. (The F-22 has already called the fight and is just flying straight. :roll: )
17:30 Ate, repeat that the F-22 called the fight at 12:40 and why the F-22 did not maneuver.
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Why are you lying about this? It is not an exchange program !! RAF is going to use Indian AirForce instructors due to pilot shortage, there is no exchange program here:
IAF's flying instructors to work as trainers in UK's Royal Air Force, announces PM Modi
India will send Air Force flying instructors to train personnel in the UKs Royal Air Force, under a military training cooperation agreement, Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced. Speaking alongside UK PM Keir Starmer, Modi highlighted the partnerships focus on trust, talent, and technology.
Did you read your link? Do you need me to simplify the sentences, this is not a criticism, I would need assistance with HindiWhy are you lying about this? It is not an exchange program !! RAF is going to use Indian AirForce instructors due to pilot shortage, there is no exchange program here:
IAF's flying instructors to work as trainers in UK's Royal Air Force, announces PM Modi
India will send Air Force flying instructors to train personnel in the UKs Royal Air Force, under a military training cooperation agreement, Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced. Speaking alongside UK PM Keir Starmer, Modi highlighted the partnerships focus on trust, talent, and technology.economictimes.indiatimes.com
"The move is part of an agreement that India and the UK reached on cooperation in military training."
"India's dynamism and the UK's expertise combine to create a unique synergy. Our partnership is trustworthy, talent- and technology-driven,"
This is the link i replied to
In reversal of colonial times, IAF instructors to train UK’s RAF fighter pilots - The Times of India
The Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
This is a 3 year exchange they will be trained for a year in how the UK train, then the remaining 2 years training UK pilots
"It is understood that their salaries will be paid by India, while the UK ministry of defence will provide accommodation."
"“The start date remains to be confirmed; however it will not be before Oct 2026. UK familiarisation and training may take up to a year or less, depending on experience.”
THe mig 21 could never take out an f-15 in a proper aerial fight but it did take out in the exercise because it was a wvr situation. The rafale won in the environment again. It basically means in a wvr situation the f-22 can be taken by the rafale. A gun kill is even more embarrassing considering the f-22 is a 2d thrust vectoring jet while rafale is canard delta.
The Rafale didn't get guns on the F-22, You have a respected French pilot telling you this
Watch the video again, It was a 1 vs 1, guns vs guns dogfight, if it was BVR missiles, the Rafale would never have seen the f-22 or knew where it was, but as you said Anything can happen in exercises WVR
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You have a pilot on this forum, it would be nice if he came in, He would have been in exercises and know how they work, The US starts slow and builds pressure during the exercise,
OK lets assume that the USAF didn't deliberately get bad results, in that particular sortie of the exercise and it was as the USAF said, The F-15C wasn't suitable with poor radar, unable to use the AIM-120, unable to be effective, Surprise tactics from India, they were unable to counter, We will leave aside it was 3:1 and WVR with a mix of SU and mig and If there was a second sortie, I'm sure in exercises, it wasn't the first time India used this combination, or went up against the Mig
They released the results in a bid to support more F-22 to replace the F-15, You will note that it wasn't India who released the results
Is there another example where the US released results of training exercises?
"The Cope India exercise also seemingly shocked some in Congress and the Pentagon who used the event to renew the call for modernizing the U.S. fighter force with stealthy F/A-22s and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.
The reasons for the drubbing have gone largely unexplained and been misunderstood, according to those based here with the 3rd Wing who participated. Two major factors stand out: None of the six 3rd Wing F-15Cs was equipped with the newest long-range, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. These Raytheon APG-63(V)2 radars were designed to find small and stealthy targets. At India's request, the U.S. agreed to mock combat at 3-to-1 odds "
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I can't think of the Indian pilot's name here, but his posts make sense, If someone could tag him?
I think the main take away is that the USAF spoke to congress and got their point across, for the F-22, To no avail in the end and the F-22 buy was reduced
"The Cope India exercise also seemingly shocked some in Congress and the Pentagon who used the event to renew the call for modernizing the U.S. fighter force with stealthy F/A-22s and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters."
I think the main take away is that the USAF spoke to congress and got their point across, for the F-22, To no avail in the end and the F-22 buy was reduced
"The Cope India exercise also seemingly shocked some in Congress and the Pentagon who used the event to renew the call for modernizing the U.S. fighter force with stealthy F/A-22s and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters."
Thanks, but I'll believe a French pilot who said the Rafale didn't get a guns lock on the F-22, over you,
While Pakistanis move on to ramp up production of Raad II ALCMs replacing the older Raad I units for their JF17 fleet and unveiling an export variant Taimoor ALCM, India is busy shouting Brahmos at every forum, news channel and on the sides shelling out millions for an European 1990s turbojet powered ALCM.
Why the Rafale Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft is India’s fastest route to air power superiority
The IAF already operates 36 Rafales, and the Indian Navy plans to induct 26 Rafale M aircraft, making further Rafale acquisition particularly attractive. Additional Rafales would bring substantial operational, commercial and logistical benefits through commonality with existing fleets
indianexpress.com