Hello Everyone , Would Su 34 Be A Good replacement for JAGUARS
@vstol Jockey
@randomradio
@Ashwin
@Rajput Lion
@Shan
@vstol Jockey
@randomradio
@Ashwin
@Rajput Lion
@Shan
No. We need to replace our Jaguars with Rafale on a one-on-one basis. Su-34 has completely failed in Ukraine while Rafale has proved its mettle in the latest conflict. The difference is so large that it isn't even close.
Only jet we need from Russia is Su-57(in a customized form). Rest we need to procure their bombers like Tu-160M2 and PAK-DA. Fighters other than Su-57 are simply waste of time for us.
The replacement for jaguar is LCA Mk2.
I do not think that when it comes to 4.5 gen aircrafts India needs to look beyond Tejas MK2 and Rafale at this moment in time. Even in the RUMINT sphere, there are no signals that the MoD has any soft spot for this platform. It is a good aircraft, there are no doubts about that. However, SU-30 MKI has played its role to the hilt as a bomb truck. I do not see any need to go out of the way to initiate a RFP for this platform. It's performance as has been rightfully pointed out was decent initially and then proceeded to become underwhelming later in Ukraine (as it ramped up its air defence system). If you are in dire need of a bomber, buy a proper bomber.
The only reason we are retaining and modernisation our Jaguars is their low flying capabilities
Infact with their old engines , their payload is maximum 1.5 tonnes of weapons and one Drop tank
They need to go ASAP. Rafale can do low flying manned missions adequately. It is not its USP, I know. However, considering the pros and cons, I would rather have them retire quickly.
Rafale.
Su30
Tejas( initial low pass before vertical climb)
Almost all Modern multirole fighter jets, are more than capable of terrain hugging low level flying.
There no "unique" capability left in jaguar anymore.
Their continuing usage is out of desperation.
we shouldnt import anymore, rather wait for 2030 and start mass producing mk2 and retire the jags first, then mig29 then mirage 2000
As per @vstol Jockey, Jaguars did quite well by flying extremely low only to pop-out to deliver Rampage and then dive down to get out of danger in the latest Ops. So maybe in future we may need such kind of fighter-bomber. Rafale is a perfect replacement in my book. Let's see whether GOI agrees or not!
Every other modern fighter jet can do that too.
You can do the same using tejas, su30, Mirage 2000, rafale, mig29's.
I would say it again.......It’s true that a ramjet missile can sustain powered flight longer and theoretically retain more thrust at the endgame, which improves NEZ.........But the R-37M’s design is not simply about peak NEZ at 70 to 100 km like Meteor or Gandiva.......it’s about extending the engagement envelope far beyond what those can reach........At 250 to 300 km, no missile delivers the same G-limited endgame performance you see at 50 km, that’s just physics.........But R-37M still delivers enough terminal energy to force evasive maneuvers or kill, thanks to its extremely high initial speed and lofted trajectory......,Claiming it “lacks kill performance at long range” ignores the fact that it has scored confirmed kills at long distances in combat something neither PL‑15 nor Meteor nor Gandiva have demonstrated to date.
Second .......on lofted profiles and “all missiles use them.”.........Of course every modern BVR missile employs some degree of lofting when possible but not all lofted trajectories are equal..........R-37M was explicitly designed for high-altitude, low-drag cruising and steep terminal descent, leveraging its huge motor and Mach 6+ burnout to maximize both range and endgame kinematics.........Gandiva and Meteor, flying at lower initial Mach and lower altitude for much of their flight, simply do not sustain as much kinetic energy at extreme distances........R-37M’s ability to remain in thin air longer and dive steeply is central to why it retains such high endgame speed, even if its G-limit is lower than a smaller AAM........Saying “all missiles loft” is true, but the magnitude of advantage with R‑37M is distinct and operationally proven.
Third on NEZ numbers and endgame.......NEZ estimates you quote are speculative at best. .........Open-source analysis suggests R‑37M’s NEZ against fighters is at least comparable to Meteor and PL‑15 within ~100 km, while still being effective far beyond that and its NEZ against large, high-value targets is unmatched..........Gandiva’s claimed NEZ of 80 to 120 km against fighters remains unproven, and even if it achieves that on paper........it doesn’t invalidate the R‑37M’s role as a long-range deterrent and HVA killer.........It’s designed to threaten AWACS, tankers, and distracted fighters at standoff ranges which it already has done.
you overstate the AESA vs. monopulse issue...........Yes, AESA brings clear advantages in flexibility, jamming resistance, and discrimination no one disputes that....,,..But it’s wrong to say a large monopulse seeker is “not effective” at long range.......At 200 to 300 km, the limiting factors are RCS, clutter, and target maneuvers, not just seeker type...........a large-aperture, high-power monopulse radar has already proven adequate for the R‑37M’s intended targets and it has done so in real combat..,.........AESA would certainly enhance future variants, but dismissing the current missile outright because of its seeker ignores its operational performance.
Your point about needing to switch targets mid-flight and handle stealth jets is valid but that’s a future requirement, not a reason to discard a currently effective weapon. In its current role, the R‑37M is a cost‑effective, operationally available capability that buys time while indigenous AESA equipped missiles like Gandiva mature.
Lastly on “winning wars.”
The R‑37M is not designed to single‑handedly “win wars”.....no single missile is........Its value lies in complementing medium‑range AAMs and denying airspace to high‑value enemy assets at standoff ranges, forcing adversaries to adapt and fight defensively.........Against JF‑17s, J‑10Cs, and even PLAAF support assets, it remains a serious threat........ It’s not meant to replace RVV‑AE or R‑27, but to augment the inventory with a proven, long‑reach capability.........In short, Gandiva and future AESA-equipped, ramjet-powered missiles are promising, but unproven........R‑37M exists, works, and delivers capability today which are combat‑tested, long‑reach, high‑speed kills that no other AAM in service has demonstrated yet......... Writing it off as just “a big missile that slows down” underestimates both its design advantages and its proven operational value.
No. The only suitable replacements are LCA Mk2, Rafale, and AMCA.
Actually, I don't know what we are discussing.
If you are looking at an operationally available missile, R-37M is available. That's about its only advantage over Gandiva. So it functions well as a stopgap until Gandiva shows up. But that's about it. And that only applies if we can buy it immediately and put it to use over the next 1-2 years. Of course there is room for it, I'm not disputing it.
Long reach, while R-37M has an impressive paper range, it will still fall below Gandiva's range anyway. For example, at 250 km, Gandiva will perform way better than a missile that can only coast. That's just basic physics.
And its main disadvantage is it won't kill the J-20. Pretty much any pilot using 5th gen avionics will laugh at the idea of getting shot down by this missile at extreme ranges, hence the short NEZ. Pretty much any AAM can shoot it down too. Both ASRAAM and MICA have anti-missile capabilities.
It's unclear if the IAF has shown interest in it, all we see are Russian-sponsored articles.
PS: Gandiva's SFDR was developed with Russia's help, pretty much Brahmos style. I don't see us becoming that dependent on Russian supplies in this area.
Decoy system for Rafale: India looks to expedite deliveries of X Guard for IAF fighter jets; here’s how it works - Times of India
India Business News: India is expediting the acquisition of Rafael's X Guard decoy system to bolster the Rafale fighter jets' missile defense capabilities, crucial for ope
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Feels like a paid article. The title seems to suggest IAF is fitting X-Guard towed decoys across its fighter fleet. But on further reading you find that only the Rafale is mentioned.
The mfgr Rafael seems to be on a marketing blitz.
This time it is clear. Rafale performed all the precision strike During SINDOOR OPERATION thanks to SPECTRA since X-GUARDs have not been delivered by Rafael.
Though once fired, why would it be unable to take down fighter targets? Genuinely curious.
No, it means that if a person screwed you over a sale of a Tata Nano, you would still be suspicious of them even if the model they're trying to sell you this time is a Mahindra Scorpio.