Indian AESA Radar Developments

Gautam

Moderator
Feb 16, 2019
12,725
10,045
Tripura, NE, India
L&T has been for the last few years poaching former employees of DPSUs like BEL & former LDRE scientists, engineers etc. Remember the fire control radar that L&T unveiled some time back. Compare that L&T radar's design with BEL's Lynx U2 FCR. L&T also made a radar that was similar in design to the ISRO's PCMC radar.

This radar on shown in the video seems to be a mix of the ARUDHRA MPR & the ADTCR . The hydraulic outriggers & the rotating mount seem to be similar to the ARUDHRA but the size is similar to the ADTCR.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
15,596
11,330
India
L&T has been for the last few years poaching former employees of DPSUs like BEL & former LDRE scientists, engineers etc. Remember the fire control radar that L&T unveiled some time back. Compare that L&T radar's design with BEL's Lynx U2 FCR. L&T also made a radar that was similar in design to the ISRO's PCMC radar.

This radar on shown in the video seems to be a mix of the ARUDHRA MPR & the ADTCR . The hydraulic outriggers & the rotating mount seem to be similar to the ARUDHRA but the size is similar to the ADTCR.

BEL and L&T have actually been cooperating in radars since the early 2000s.
 

Gautam

Moderator
Feb 16, 2019
12,725
10,045
Tripura, NE, India
BEL and L&T have actually been cooperating in radars since the early 2000s.
Sure. They have been doing component manufacturing, sub-assembly & assembly level work for decades. That has given them the infra that was needed to manufacture radars. But there is still a gap in know how & know why to go from manufacturing to design.

You need some experienced radar designers to get into radar design work. The manpower of the DRDO labs & DPSUs were always available to them for poaching. It is the recent push towards export that has given them the comfort to go into product design. Hence the need for experienced radar designers.

I think all medium to large privately owned Indian defence companies will do their own product development eventually. L&T, TATA, Mahindra et. al. just have the financial firepower to make that transition now. Soon we will see VEM, Solar group, Data Patterns etc. reducing reliance on ToTs from DRDO & getting into their own product design in a big way.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
15,596
11,330
India
Sure. They have been doing component manufacturing, sub-assembly & assembly level work for decades. That has given them the infra that was needed to manufacture radars. But there is still a gap in know how & know why to go from manufacturing to design.

You need some experienced radar designers to get into radar design work. The manpower of the DRDO labs & DPSUs were always available to them for poaching. It is the recent push towards export that has given them the comfort to go into product design. Hence the need for experienced radar designers.

I think all medium to large privately owned Indian defence companies will do their own product development eventually. L&T, TATA, Mahindra et. al. just have the financial firepower to make that transition now. Soon we will see VEM, Solar group, Data Patterns etc. reducing reliance on ToTs from DRDO & getting into their own product design in a big way.

Yeah. With the exception of new and exotic tech, I think the private sector has the money to make it happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gautam

Gautam

Moderator
Feb 16, 2019
12,725
10,045
Tripura, NE, India
A comparison between the UTTAM Mk1 vs. Mk2 AESA radars going by the info we have so far :

No. of TRMs: ~740 vs. ~1000
Type of antenna: Pincer microstrip patch antenna vs. Tapered Slot Array/Vivaldi Antenna
Semi-conductor: GaAs vs. GaN HEMT
Range: >100 km vs. >160 km for a target with 1 sq. m. RCS
Operating frequency: X band for both
Modes of operation: Same for both
Manufacturer: BEL vs. BEL/AMPL

The Mk2 will outperform the Mk1 in every metric while being dimensionally smaller than the Mk1. It will also outperform the Elta EL/M-2032. Photos we have of the UTTAM Mk2. from documents so far:
1640884783571.png

1640884793360.png

1640884805737.png

1640884818965.png
 

AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
2,490
1,833
Republic of Wadiya
A comparison between the UTTAM Mk1 vs. Mk2 AESA radars going by the info we have so far :

No. of TRMs: ~740 vs. ~1000
Type of antenna: Pincer microstrip patch antenna vs. Tapered Slot Array/Vivaldi Antenna
Semi-conductor: GaAs vs. GaN HEMT
Range: >100 km vs. >160 km for a target with 1 sq. m. RCS
Operating frequency: X band for both
Modes of operation: Same for both
Manufacturer: BEL vs. BEL/AMPL

The Mk2 will outperform the Mk1 in every metric while being dimensionally smaller than the Mk1. It will also outperform the Elta EL/M-2032. Photos we have of the UTTAM Mk2. from documents so far:
View attachment 22317
View attachment 22318
View attachment 22319
View attachment 22320
So Uttam Mk II has moved far beyond what can be called @lcafanboy (rumor)levels

@Gautam so MKIs will get this during upcomming MLUs ? Seems like a No brainer to me as long as Russians are not offering their Su 57 AESA to us.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: SammyBoi and Gautam

Gautam

Moderator
Feb 16, 2019
12,725
10,045
Tripura, NE, India
@Gautam so MKIs will get this during upcomming MLUs ? Seems like a No brainer to me as long as Russians are not offering their Su 57 AESA to us.
Subject to whether the Russians agree with replacing the Su-30's Bars radar with the UTTAM Mk2. I doubt they would let go of it very easily. Although given the humongous size of the MKI's radome we can fit in a much larger radar with 1500+ TRMs. The MKI produces enough electricity to support something like that. Do we want to go with this version of the UTTAM ? That is also a question.

We should develop an even larger version of the radar to be used on say the MKIs, Mig-29Ks, TEDBF & of course the AMCA. If we begin development right now we can only scale up the UTTAM Mk2's tech. Mk2's tech is very modern but if we wait a couple of years there maybe we will complete the development of a few more advanced radar tech currently under R&D.

The most notable work ongoing right now are in semi-conductors & UWB antennas. Our work on GaN HEMTs have branched into development of Al-GaN HEMTs & some other niche areas. SSPL & GAETEC are spearheading the HEMT R&D work while LDRE is pushing the UWB antenna work. If we can take this to work then we can make radars quite a bit more more efficient in terms of space & energy. It would also give the radars the ability to work in multiple bands. All this will be undoubtedly helped by the fact that the SCL fab is being upgraded.

These technologies would also help our other radars & seekers. But its too early to tell if & when the R&D will fructify. The Mk2 hasn't even been fabricated yet. Let's see what comes up.
 

AbRaj

Senior member
Dec 6, 2017
2,490
1,833
Republic of Wadiya
Subject to whether the Russians agree with replacing the Su-30's Bars radar with the UTTAM Mk2. I doubt they would let go of it very easily. Although given the humongous size of the MKI's radome we can fit in a much larger radar with 1500+ TRMs. The MKI produces enough electricity to support something like that. Do we want to go with this version of the UTTAM ? That is also a question.
As per @randomradio and one or two other fellas, we dont need to entertain russians for anything related to MKIs.
We should develop an even larger version of the radar to be used on say the MKIs, Mig-29Ks, TEDBF & of course the AMCA. If we begin development right now we can only scale up the UTTAM Mk2's tech. Mk2's tech is very modern but if we wait a couple of years there maybe we will complete the development of a few more advanced radar tech currently under R&D.
BTW so you are talking about doing a Uttam Pro Max XL plus ?
The most notable work ongoing right now are in semi-conductors & UWB antennas. Our work on GaN HEMTs have branched into development of Al-GaN HEMTs & some other niche areas. SSPL & GAETEC are spearheading the HEMT R&D work while LDRE is pushing the UWB antenna work. If we can take this to work then we can make radars quite a bit more more efficient in terms of space & energy. It would also give the radars the ability to work in multiple bands. All this will be undoubtedly helped by the fact that the SCL fab is being upgraded.

These technologies would also help our other radars & seekers. But its too early to tell if & when the R&D will fructify. The Mk2 hasn't even been fabricated yet. Let's see what comes up.
Govt needs to give more autonomy( regarding funds etc) to these labs working on Radars. Setting up a commercial division is also a good option.
 

Gautam

Moderator
Feb 16, 2019
12,725
10,045
Tripura, NE, India
As per @randomradio and one or two other fellas, we dont need to entertain russians for anything related to MKIs.
We may not need to but for geo-political reasons we may still want to.
BTW so you are talking about doing a Uttam Pro Max XL plus ?
:ROFLMAO:
Govt needs to give more autonomy( regarding funds etc) to these labs working on Radars.
No amount of autonomy in funds will help you set up or upgrade a semi-conductor foundry without New Delhi loosening the purse strings. The amount of money needed to set up an advanced semi-conductor foundry is 8 to 10 times DRDO's annual R&D budget.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,345
13,279
Mumbai
We may not need to but for geo-political reasons we may still want to.
There are other means thru which we can get them to acquiesce to our demands.

No amount of autonomy in funds will help you set up or upgrade a semi-conductor foundry without New Delhi loosening the purse strings.
Aren't military grade semi conductors of a lower sophistication as compared to the commercial grade ones?

The amount of money needed to set up an advanced semi-conductor foundry is 8 to 10 times DRDO's annual R&D budget.
If that isn't case what exactly is the SCL Chandigarh upgradation of facilities all about. We certainly don't seem to be spending billions of dollars there.