India-US Relations

Hydra said:
www.news18.com

Donald Trump's Lunch Message To Asim Munir Decoded: Align On Iran, Pivot Away From China | Exclusive

Donald Trump has promised Pakistan unprecedented access to American defence technology in return for unconditional military and strategic support against Iran
www.news18.com www.news18.com

Donald Trump has promised Pakistan unprecedented access to American defence technology in return for unconditional military and strategic support against Iran​

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Yea totally gonna happen, the Hans will sit back relax and watch this happen and won't do anything at all 100%. Leave that Trump says many things, does quite little in the end. All I see are more problems for Pakistan, they will anger the Hans and the Iranians, and judging from the history of the yanks, once Iran is taken care of they will abandon Pakistan.
redpanda said:
Well we are back to the good old days. America wouldn't wish to let go it's asset/slave state that easily to China. And India is too big to make a slave, and America can't digest an independent ally. Let us see how this goes. I don't think they will give Pakistan 5th gen aircraft. More likely American air defence system & F-21s + upgrades for the already existing F-16s.
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Do you think China will still give them J35 if this tilt to US happens? BTW I can't believe @Hydra is freaking more about PAF potentially getting newer F16s rather than getting J35.
 
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RationalGuy said:
Yea totally gonna happen, the Hans will sit back relax and watch this happen and won't do anything at all 100%. Leave that Trump says many things, does quite little in the end. All I see are more problems for Pakistan, they will anger the Hans and the Iranians, and judging from the history of the yanks, once Iran is taken care of they will abandon Pakistan.

Do you think China will still give them J35 if this tilt to US happens? BTW I can't believe @Hydra is freaking more about PAF potentially getting newer F16s rather than getting J35.
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Yeas, I am more worried about F16 than J35.
 
Hydra said:
Imagine PAF getting Block 70, there is nothing worse can't happen to us.


F16 Blk 70/F21 is not less than Rafale, infact i will call it a better aircraft if they are selling AIM120D along with it.
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It's bad, but not unsolvable. PAF will be able to add 5th gen platforms before India, but even with blk 70 India will definitely be able to out scale them on 4+ gen platforms.

What's more troubling is Pakistan getting access to US intelligence and US diplomatic cover internationally. This is much more impactful tactically and strategically for India.

RationalGuy said:
Do you think China will still give them J35 if this tilt to US happens? BTW I can't believe @Hydra is freaking out from PAF potentially getting newer F16s but not J35.
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I don't see why not? One of the big selling points of the J-35 is that it is exportable. It is not their top of the line J-20 and the PLAAF is also inducting 6th platforms over the next 10 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see many nations in MENA operating legacy western/soviet 4th gen platforms alongside J-35s.
 
Ginvincible said:
It's bad, but not unsolvable. PAF will be able to add 5th gen platforms before India, but even with blk 70 India will definitely be able to out scale them on 4+ gen platforms.

What's more troubling is Pakistan getting access to US intelligence and US diplomatic cover internationally. This is much more impactful tactically and strategically for India.


I don't see why not? One of the big selling points of the J-35 is that it is exportable. It is not their top of the line J-20 and the PLAAF is also inducting 6th platforms over the next 10 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see many nations in MENA operating legacy western/soviet 4th gen platforms alongside J-35s.
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The nightmare is
1) PAF getting F21/f16Blk 70
With AIM 120D or worse AIM260
2)They getting US signal intelligence during conflict
3)Israel getting vetoed by US on selling weapons to India or Israel willingly staying away from India as a goodwill gesture to pak.
 
Hydra said:
The nightmare is
1) PAF getting F21/f16Blk 70
With AIM 120D or worse AIM260
2)They getting US signal intelligence during conflict
3)Israel getting vetoed by US on selling weapons to India or Israel willingly staying away from India as a goodwill gesture to pak.
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Then do tell us how you would navigate this situation. You've stacked a lot of things on top of a single scenario. However, since you are doing such a simulation, I would also like to see what end solution you provide.
 
Shan said:
Then do tell us how you would navigate this situation. You've stacked a lot of things on top of a single scenario. However, since you are doing such a simulation, I would also like to see what end solution you provide.
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We lost the opportunity. The one thing we continuously excelled for centuries. "Asking solution" now is like asking what is the solution to Indira Gandhi after her decision for not taking pok in 1971 war.

We should have support west during Ukraine war, and We shouldn't have pause sindoor till we finish pak for ever.
 
Hydra said:
We lost the opportunity. The one thing we continuously excelled for centuries. "Asking solution" now is like asking what is the solution to Indira Gandhi after her decision for not taking pok in 1971 war.

We should have support west during Ukraine war, and We shouldn't have pause sindoor till we finish pak for ever.
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That's it? That is your revelation? I am asking about how to counter them and you are saying there is none. I am correct in saying that?
 
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Ginvincible said:
It's bad, but not unsolvable. PAF will be able to add 5th gen platforms before India, but even with blk 70 India will definitely be able to out scale them on 4+ gen platforms.

What's more troubling is Pakistan getting access to US intelligence and US diplomatic cover internationally. This is much more impactful tactically and strategically for India.


I don't see why not? One of the big selling points of the J-35 is that it is exportable. It is not their top of the line J-20 and the PLAAF is also inducting 6th platforms over the next 10 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see many nations in MENA operating legacy western/soviet 4th gen platforms alongside J-35s.
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J35 will be used for Chinese navy, even though they will give degraded version for Pakistan if Pakistan tilts to US it's highly unlikely China will give them J35. It's like saying US will give YF23 or that Boeing alternative to F35 to us because they didn't induct it, except here China is actually going to use J35 in the very near future.
 
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Hydra said:
We lost the opportunity. The one thing we continuously excelled for centuries. "Asking solution" now is like asking what is the solution to Indira Gandhi after her decision for not taking pok in 1971 war.

We should have support west during Ukraine war, and We shouldn't have pause sindoor till we finish pak for ever.
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Yes supported West which means complete stop of
A.) Brahmos production
B.) Sukhoi 30 program which still requires critical stuff from Russia
C.) Clandestine support for Arihant class and future SSN
D.) Cheap oil

All for hoping that daddy Sam wouldn't think for himself even then and still go ahead and support Pakistan to confront Iran. Man Hydra I respect you for some of your points but sometimes I think you need to be kept away from any position higher than a clerk at an MNC. You being worried about Pakistan getting a beefed up 1970s platform which can be defeated by Tejas Mk2 rather than them getting LO 5th gen platforms shows your bias and prejudice. Your suggestion of kow towing to the west and hoping Sam won't throw trinkets to Pakistan by seeing our devotion is so utterly flawed and unbelievable idk what to say. Get help.
Hydra said:
Only in your minds
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Sir you are more worried about 1970S F16s which will be target practice for Kusha and S400 compared to LO J35 with PL15? I mean idek what to say anymore 😭
 
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Shan said:
Then do tell us how you would navigate this situation. You've stacked a lot of things on top of a single scenario. However, since you are doing such a simulation, I would also like to see what end solution you provide.
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The situation is if Sam gives F16 Blk 70 to Pakistan which is highly unlikely but more favorable for us as it means China will not give J35 to Pakistan it essentially means Kusha and S400 have more targets to shoot down lol. The idea that an F16 which will essentially be a big red target in the sky poses a bigger threat than a LO 5th gen platform with 200 km BVRMs is an absolutely 🤡 take.
 
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Hydra said:
We lost the opportunity. The one thing we continuously excelled for centuries. "Asking solution" now is like asking what is the solution to Indira Gandhi after her decision for not taking pok in 1971 war.

We should have support west during Ukraine war, and We shouldn't have pause sindoor till we finish pak for ever.
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Any solution aside from dhoti shivering? My friend tell me how would you kite through this situation? I mean it isn't the first time in history that Pakistan might have full US support. Also there was no guarantee of the west going soft on us if we had totally been subservient to them. Look at how west behave in case of the whole greece-turkey case. They would have played we trade with both equally card either way. You are asking India to become a semi-vassal state like Pakistan. US doesn't like anything other than that as an ally.
 
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redpanda said:
Any solution aside from dhoti shivering?
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Its not about dhoti shivering. Reality is with unprecedented US suppoer, if Pakistan gets, within three to five yeras they will attack us.
redpanda said:
I mean it isn't the first time in history that Pakistan might have full US support.
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Back then we had USSR. No they aren't, and the successor Russian weapons are joke now.
 
Hydra said:
Its not about dhoti shivering. Reality is with unprecedented US suppoer, if Pakistan gets, within three to five yeras they will attack us.
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They would have either way. Once they would have gotten those J35. We have to prepare for that scenario regardless of who support them. And your solution of let us be a USA's nightime pal like Pakistan isn't something that we want. And USA want us to be a nightime pal like them. So I don't see we ever being in an actual proper alliance with USA because they have very rigid alliance structure with little to no flexibility, where they want to dictate your geopolitical decisions.
 
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