HAL Indian Multirole Helicopter (IMRH) : Updates & Discussions

Ashwin

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That's a good thing. Anyway, it looks like the IN will simply push forward with the NMRH tender. So HAL can straightaway work on a next gen helicopter for the navy instead.
HAL should give up here and IN should give up on NUH program.

Whatchu talking about? There was a push to combine both requirements, especially from the navy.
There was never a combined program. It was two different airframe design with different weight.
 

randomradio

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HAL should give up here

HAL shouldn't give up. But they should make it an effort towards making new technologies.

and IN should give up on NUH program.

Experts wouldn't agree. HAL fears the NUH due to the end of their monopoly. Hence you will keep seeing articles and suggestions to the contrary.

There was never a combined program. It was two different airframe design with different weight.

That's what ADA decided.
 

Ashwin

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Experts wouldn't agree. HAL fears the NUH due to the end of their monopoly. Hence you will keep seeing articles and suggestions to the contrary
Correct, but Currently HAL narrative is winning. Going against may come with political implications for govt.


That's what ADA decided
Really? ADA decided NLCA is not good enough or Navy ?
 

randomradio

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Correct, but Currently HAL narrative is winning. Going against may come with political implications for govt.

Lol. Narratives don't create requirements. HAL's offer is to offer a helicopter that doesn't even exist. The Russians have to navalise the Ka-226T first.

Really? ADA decided NLCA is not good enough or Navy ?

Saheb ji, should I explain the difference between LCA and AMCA now?
 

Ashwin

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. Narratives don't create requirements. HAL's offer is to offer a helicopter that doesn't even exist. The Russians have to navalise the Ka-226T first.
We are talking about Naval Dhruv and NUH. Which exists.

Saheb ji, should I explain the difference between LCA and AMCA now?
Looks like you keep getting lost in your train of thoughts.
ADA is far more realistic. They simply said the AMCA is not suitable for the navy and a new design has to be made from scratch. So take the simpler TEDBF in the meantime and a naval NGF will follow after that.
^^ this is the topic we have started on.

In place of NLCA we have TEDBF. Which came from the realisation that NLCA is not good enough and airforce requirement won't go along with IN for a next generation deck based fighter. (So no NAMCA)

Just like that, HAL realised Navy helicopter requirement cannot go hand in hand with IA/IAF requirement.

Thus from the start itself they designed two seperate designs shipborne vs high altitude requirements. One 13ton and another 11.5 ton.

Both ADA and HAL is realistic here. ADA got user backing thus TEDBF. HAL is yet to, thus going ahead with 13 ton.
 
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randomradio

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We are talking about Naval Dhruv and NUH. Which exists.

Naval Dhruv is merely the hopes and dreams of HAL.

Looks like you keep getting lost in your train of thoughts.

^^ this is the topic we have started on.

In place of NLCA we have TEDBF. Which came from the realisation that NLCA is not good enough and airforce requirement won't go along with IN for a next generation deck based fighter. (So no NAMCA)

Just like that, HAL realised Navy helicopter requirement cannot go hand in hand with IA/IAF requirement.

Thus from the start itself they designed two seperate designs shipborne vs high altitude requirements. One 13ton and another 11.5 ton.

Both ADA and HAL is realistic here. ADA got user backing thus TEDBF. HAL is yet to, thus going ahead with 13 ton.

HAL simply created a derivative of the IMRH for naval requirements. It wasn't a brand new design.

ADA insisted naval requirements can only be fulfilled by a clean sheet design. Plus they pointed out it can only be done after AMCA is done with.

This is what I have been saying about the naval helicopter as well. HAL first needs to learn making the land-based heli before moving on to a naval one. They can't do it in parallel without first gaining experience on the simpler land-based variant.
 

Ashwin

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Naval Dhruv is merely the hopes and dreams of HAL.
Don't copy paste your statement for HTT-40.

Like always you will have to go back.

HAL simply created a derivative of the IMRH for naval requirements. It wasn't a brand new design.
No they didn't. He clearly says it's "seperate design ready if navy is ready to find"

It's not possible to make ship based design out of a high altitude optimised design. Which we have seen for NALH.

Let me rephrase you, "Naval IMRH is merely the hopes and dreams of some internet forumer"
 
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randomradio

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Don't copy paste your statement for HTT-40.

Like always you will have to go back.

You mean how I claimed HTT-40 will not become operational even in 2021 years ago? Or that the IAF will get the aircraft only in 2022 or 2023?

Hmm, I wonder if what I said was right...

No they didn't. He clearly says it's "seperate design ready if navy is ready to find"

It's not possible to make ship based design out of a high altitude optimised design. Which we have seen for NALH.

Let me rephrase you, "Naval IMRH is merely the hopes and dreams of some internet forumer"

You are talking about what's happening today, I am referring to how it started off long ago. IN didn't get suckered in.
 

_Anonymous_

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We need products, not designs. designing is what we did with LCA. freaking 40 years
What he's trying to convey is it won't be state of the art by the time it comes out. Besides we've already enjoyed greater success with helos as opposed to FA. It was the right time for them to push the envelope if not in design terms then at least in avionics. The IMRH won't be having FBW. How do you like that?
 
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randomradio

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After design ing alh, lch & luh...
& purchase of Apache & Sirkosky IMRH

I think they can try lot more..

The opposite. They need to stick with what they can do because the requirement will become critical within 5 years. If they fail with a new design, then the forces will be forced to import again. HAL can always experiment on the side using demonstrators. That's the point of experimental programs. They are free to make a high speed stealth prototype with coaxial rotors, retractable landing carriage, high speed wings etc. The medium weight successor to the LCH can be something like that.
 

Sathya

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The opposite. They need to stick with what they can do because the requirement will become critical within 5 years. If they fail with a new design, then the forces will be forced to import again. HAL can always experiment on the side using demonstrators. That's the point of experimental programs. They are free to make a high speed stealth prototype with coaxial rotors, retractable landing carriage, high speed wings etc. The medium weight successor to the LCH can be something like that.

We bought mi17 helicopter batch after batch off the shelf right?

Why would it's requirements become critical in 5 years?
 

randomradio

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We bought mi17 helicopter batch after batch off the shelf right?

Why would it's requirements become critical in 5 years?

Our Mi-8 fleet was completely phased out in 2017. We are basically short of such helicopters today.

Also the IA needs medium lift helicopters and their current inventory is zero. So it's already critical, never mind 5 years down the line. It's just that light helis are of greater priority right now and once that's reached a certain threshold in a few years, the need for medium helis will come up.

We are reorganising into integrated brigades. We can't have integrated brigades without an aviation component for each brigade. Each brigade needs light, medium and attack helis.
 
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AbRaj

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What he's trying to convey is it won't be state of the art by the time it comes out. Besides we've already enjoyed greater success with helos as opposed to FA. It was the right time for them to push the envelope if not in design terms then at least in avionics. The IMRH won't be having FBW. How do you like that?
we need Heavy/medium lifters ASAP considering precarious situation we are in right now. Try something innovative will only bog us down
 

Milspec

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You mean how I claimed HTT-40 will not become operational even in 2021 years ago? Or that the IAF will get the aircraft only in 2022 or 2023?
Well you claimed quite a bit on htt40 vs pc7 threads, those moves would put the dear departed MJ to shame. But your PC7 stuff was remarkable.

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