Brexit and Future of UK : Discussions

Britain has been increasing it's strength ever since Brexit happened don't you think? The socialist commie EU was never anthing other than an albatross arund UK's neck.

What? Is it another typical 'Guynextdoor' sarcasm?
 
What? Is it another typical 'Guynextdoor' sarcasm?

what the hell? he is a lunatic with an agenda. You can't deny the facts. As of today David Davies said Britain is getting a 'Canada +++' deal which means there will be no tariffs on goods or services. Turns out their decision to exit is proving itself exceptional everyday.

@BMD did you read that news?
 
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what the hell? he is a lunatic with an agenda. You can't deny the facts. As of today David Davies said Britain is getting a 'Canada +++' deal which means there will be no tariffs on goods or services. Turns out their decision to exit is proving itself exceptional everyday.

@BMD did you read that news?

There's a nuance. David said he was SEEKING a so called "Canada +++" deal,it doesn't mean he's going to get it.

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Meanwhile ;

David Davis scrambles to salvage EU relations after 'damaging trust'

Source
 
@BMD

German minister suggests May not being open with voters about UK paying 'Brexit bill' before trade deal finalised

A German minister has accused Theresa May of not being open with British voters about the fact that the UK will have to pay a “Brexit bill” to the EU before a trade deal is finalised. According to a Spiegel Online report, Michael Roth, the German Europe minister, made the comment at an EU meeting in Brussels.

The Spiegel report is in German, but here is a Google Translate translation of the start of the story, with minor tidying up from me.
"The German government has called on Britain’s prime minister Theresa May to properly report on the results of the previous Brexit negotiations in her homeland. “You have to play and speak the same way as you do in London,” said Michael Roth (SPD) on the sidelines of an EU ministerial meeting in Brussels. He was “somewhat surprised” that what the British government said in Brussels was “a little different” to what was said in London.

Roth hinted that May had given the impression that Britain only had to pay the Brexit final bill to the EU if there was a deal on a trade agreement.

From an EU point of view, however, this does not correspond to the deal that May received at the end of last week in Brussels. It stipulates that the agreements on the final invoice will result in a legally binding withdrawal agreement which is independent of the trade agreement desired by the United Kingdom."

Many Tories insist that the UK should only pay its “Brexit bill”, costing £35bn to £39bn according to May yesterday, only if it gets a free trade deal.

Yesterday May (here) and Davis Davis (here) both insisted that payments were conditional on the UK getting a Brexit deal.

Germany suggests May not open with voters about UK paying 'Brexit bill' before trade deal finalised - Politics live
 
@BMD

German minister suggests May not being open with voters about UK paying 'Brexit bill' before trade deal finalised

A German minister has accused Theresa May of not being open with British voters about the fact that the UK will have to pay a “Brexit bill” to the EU before a trade deal is finalised. According to a Spiegel Online report, Michael Roth, the German Europe minister, made the comment at an EU meeting in Brussels.

The Spiegel report is in German, but here is a Google Translate translation of the start of the story, with minor tidying up from me.
"The German government has called on Britain’s prime minister Theresa May to properly report on the results of the previous Brexit negotiations in her homeland. “You have to play and speak the same way as you do in London,” said Michael Roth (SPD) on the sidelines of an EU ministerial meeting in Brussels. He was “somewhat surprised” that what the British government said in Brussels was “a little different” to what was said in London.

Roth hinted that May had given the impression that Britain only had to pay the Brexit final bill to the EU if there was a deal on a trade agreement.

From an EU point of view, however, this does not correspond to the deal that May received at the end of last week in Brussels. It stipulates that the agreements on the final invoice will result in a legally binding withdrawal agreement which is independent of the trade agreement desired by the United Kingdom."

Many Tories insist that the UK should only pay its “Brexit bill”, costing £35bn to £39bn according to May yesterday, only if it gets a free trade deal.

Yesterday May (here) and Davis Davis (here) both insisted that payments were conditional on the UK getting a Brexit deal.

Germany suggests May not open with voters about UK paying 'Brexit bill' before trade deal finalised - Politics live
It's incorrect though, the amount will be paid over the next 40 years because that's when the actual money was due to be used in EU projects. If it wasn't for these multi-decade projects, we wouldn't owe anything after 2019.

And as has been said already from the very start, nothing is agreed until it's all agreed. No trade deal, no money. Stop trying to save face.
 
It's incorrect though, the amount will be paid over the next 40 years because that's when the actual money was due to be used in EU projects. If it wasn't for these multi-decade projects, we wouldn't owe anything after 2019.

And as has been said already from the very start, nothing is agreed until it's all agreed. No trade deal, no money. Stop trying to save face.

Hum,actually it was agreed that Britain would have to pay the Brexit bill before even an hypothetical trade deal is finalized. However it happens that your PM and the others who represent you tend to have different words depending on the place they are. Makes you think who's really trying to save face.

They are lying to you making you think Britain will only pay its bill if it gets a fair trade deal.
 
Hum,actually it was agreed that Britain would have to pay the Brexit bill before even an hypothetical trade deal is finalized. However it happens that your PM and the others who represent you tend to have different words depending on the place they are. Makes you think who's really trying to save face.

They are lying to you making you think Britain will only pay its bill if it gets a fair trade deal.
Nope, that's idiotic. Like any country could come up with £40bn in 1 year. The money will be paid at the same rate until March 2019 and at a reduced rate thereafter.

How a £50billion Brexit divorce bill will save Britain a fortune

The bill will be paid off at £1billion a year over 40 years, says Daniel Hannan

The agreement to date is only one in principle not legality, such that we can proceed to the next stage, after which everything will be formally signed.

Sorry but you've been lied to. This German idiot fails to understand why the money is even owed. It is for pensions and multi-decade long projects, which drag on indefinitely. So what you're looking at is an amount decaying over a very long period. So unless a trade deal takes 40 years to draw up, he's talking crap.

Some of it is also loans not a payment.

Brexit divorce bill REVEALED: Barnier confirms UK will have to pay £40BILLION - in EUROS

It will also hand over a maximum of £20 billion for 'Reste a Liquider' payments - obligations such as loans to Ukraine and a refugee fund for Turkey which are yet to fall.
 
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@BMD

Do you have any other sources for that '40' years claim or just from that random British MEP ?
Dude, it's obvious if you've even been following negotiation but hey, why argue, let's just wait until March 2019 and then when you have received a £39bn lump sum you'll know I'm right.

The money is for projects, pensions and loans, which require funding over a long period not immediately.
 
Another source, dated yesterday, from the actual negotiator.

'We WON'T PAY!' Davis promises UK will not stump up Brexit bill if no deal is agreed

PUBLISHED: 07:07, Mon, Dec 11, 2017 | UPDATED: 08:24, Mon, Dec 11, 2017

David Davis insisted that Britain could easily refuse to hand over the agreed £39bn exit bill if a trade deal with the Brussels bloc was not secured by the date of departure.

€100bn Brexit bill is ‘legally impossible’ to enforce, European Commission’s own lawyers admit

Brexit bill is ‘legally impossible’ to enforce, European Commission’s own lawyers admit
 
That's exactly what the German minister for Europe pointed out.
Except it's the exact opposite. He's under the impression that the figure is set anyway.

Furthermore:

The EU divorce bill

1. Outstanding budget commitments
The EU Budget operates through a multi-annual spending structure, which means projects are paid for over a period of several years. As a result, EU Budget payments are back-loaded and many will be paid out post-Brexit. For example, a key element of EU spending allocations consists of cohesion fund payments, aimed at raising living standards in the 2004 Accession countries. According to the CER, only 25–30% of the biggest cohesion fund payments will actually have been spent by the time Britain is expected to leave the EU in April 2019.

The current EU Budget period runs from 2014–2020, finishing a year after the UK’s exit date. A key point of legal uncertainty is the status of financial commitments scheduled for 2019 and 2020. The UK has indicated that it only expects to fund its budget commitments up until April 2019. However, the Commission's methodology is clear that the UK should meet the full schedule of obligations up until 2020.

2. EU officials’ pensions
Like the UK civil service pension scheme, the Pension Scheme of European Officials (PESO) is an unfunded scheme and operates on a ‘pay-as-you-go basis’, with costs being covered by the annual EU Budget as they arise. The Commission outlines that the UK should make a payment to cover the costs associated with this scheme, as they appear in the EU's consolidated accounts at the time of the UK's withdrawal. There have been suggestions that the UK could push for this liability to simply cover the costs of UK nationals working for the Commission, lowering the bill due to the under-representation of British officials. The Commission's methodology suggests that the EU would contest such an approach.

3. Contingent liabilities
The EU incurred contingent liabilities while the UK was a member state. These liabilities effectively constitute payments that would be triggered in specific circumstances only, for example, Ukraine defaulting on its EU loan. When the 2015 EU accounts were drawn up, outstanding loans to Hungary, Ireland, Portugal and Ukraine collectively amounted to €49.5 billion. The EU’s latest approach asks the UK to make a lump-sum payment upfront to cover these liabilities, in case they materialise in the future. This increases the upfront divorce bill by €9–12 billion. However, these upfront liability payments would be reimbursed over the coming years, enabling the UK to recover some of this money.

4. Other costs of withdrawal
The Commission’s negotiating mandate also includes the “specific costs related to the withdrawal process”. This would cover the relocation of the two London-based EU agencies after Brexit; the European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency. Other costs include the decommissioning of the Joint Research Centre nuclear sites and funding British teachers seconded to European schools until 2021.

The detail of all the headings that the Commission has put on the table is set out in its working paper “Essential Principles on Financial Settlement”, published on 24 May. Reports from Brussels suggested that the Commission’s original position was toughened up by member states in internal discussions to include, for example, continued support for CAP payments.

Do we get anything in return?
The divorce bill could be offset partly by the UK’s share of EU assets, rebates and budget receipts. Some could be immediate deductions from the bill, while others could be longer-term payments over the next decade or more. Potential issues are:

  • Budget receipts - money that the UK would have got from the EU Budget
  • Rebate credits - repayment of outstanding credits from earlier contributions
  • Asset shares - this is likely to be the most contentious, with arguments about whether the UK is entitled to shares of the value of buildings and a share of the capital of the European Investment Bank (EIB).The Commission's methodology outlines that the UK's paid-in capital to the EIB will be returned, but only after the EIB's loan book is balanced.
Could we walk away without paying a Brexit ‘divorce bill’?
The Lords’ EU Financial Affairs Committee reports that the “strictly legal position of the UK on this issue appears to be strong”. If negotiators fail to agree on a political financial settlement, it could become a legal case in the International Court of Justice or the Permanent Court of Arbitration, both located in The Hague. The result of such a court case would be hard to predict. However there have been suggestions that this international arbitration solution would be preferable to a political settlement.
 
Hum,actually it was agreed that Britain would have to pay the Brexit bill before even an hypothetical trade deal is finalized. However it happens that your PM and the others who represent you tend to have different words depending on the place they are. Makes you think who's really trying to save face.

They are lying to you making you think Britain will only pay its bill if it gets a fair trade deal.

I don't think it's certain Britain will pay brexit bill. They will use strong arm twisting and divide and rule tactics to secure their points.