Blast from the past : EW over Kashmir in Feb 2019

Saaho

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Dec 27, 2019
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28 Feb 2019 PAF played a lot of its hands, it demonstrated superiority of AMRAAM over R-77. But I guess most important and seldom discussed demonstration is electronic warfare during this battle. Even this is not the most disturbing part. Not at all. Being deficient in some aspect is the nature of reality. Your enemy can have hidden strengths and you can have unknown vulnerabilities. The issue is totally different. You see, I have a sinking suspicion that EW vulnerabilities of IAF were not just know by IAF and MoD, they were widely and publically known in many many ..... many circles. To the point that the outcome of engagement was predicted almost 2-3 years in advanced. That too very publically.

Folks this is not the case of an advanced enemy beating an unprepared weak one. This is a case of a relatively strong power being highly ignorant and almost arrogantly stupid or criminally careless. I believe, IAF, IA that day were not just caught pant's down but were rather ... not wearing pants for very long time and possibly have only picked up fig leaves to cover their posteriors, not to mention since there was no political fallout from the event, most likely NO lesson was EVER learnt and only bandaids have been applied.

Let me present you with something that I found rather mind boggling. The revelations start in May 2016, in the 10th China International Defense Electronics Exhibition (CIDEX) 国产作战指挥系统曝光 东风26可随时打击南海_军事频道_凤凰网 . The exhibition had a section on EW with this image :

1711342760666.png


This alone should have raised alarms in south block. This is a very public advertisement of Chinese export of its fixed wing counter communication EW suite, JN1101-F to Pakistan on its 26th airwing called Blinders having old Dassault Aviation 20 planes. I don't know if this was missed or deliberately ignored or just a careless ignorance.

It is rather disturbing that even public blogs and media picked this up and was extensively covered from 2016 all the way to 2018.

Nov 2017
India wants to return goods from Russia! Because of China's small antenna, the Pakistan Air Force is like a tiger.
India's SU30MKI is equipped with a data link working in the VHF/UHF band to achieve system operations and achieve air superiority over Pakistan. However, by adding a knife-shaped antenna, a large fairing and several antennas are added under the belly, JN1101F The airborne communication countermeasure system can completely interfere with the Indian su30MKI communication system, turning it into a "blind man" and losing the support of system operations. Even the old-fashioned J7 is sure to shoot it down in an air battle.


May 2016
Pakistan's electronic warfare aircraft uses China's upgrade to comprehensively suppress Indian Su-30
According to the development of the new generation communication system of the Indian Army. In particular, the new generation Su-30MKI is equipped with a data link working in the VHF/UHF band. Therefore, Pakistan requires its own electronic warfare system to interfere with and suppress the Su-30MKI data link. The Pakistan Air Force has overhauled and overhauled the Falcon 20 electronic warfare aircraft. The upgrade, according to relevant information, was completed from 2004 to 2007, and then returned to Pakistan to install the JN1101F communication countermeasures system. Its appearance features are a knife-shaped antenna added to the nose, a large fairing and several antennas added to the bottom of the belly. After the upgrade The Falcon 20 electronic warfare aircraft has the ability to counter the new generation communication system of the Indian army, especially the VHF/UHF band data link equipped with the Su-30MKI, which can weaken the opponent's combat capabilities and enhance the combat capabilities of the Pakistan Air Force.

Dec 2016
What new aircraft did Pakistan display that made India very unhappy? This will prevent the Su-30 from contacting the ground at all.


It is noteworthy that all of this was floating on internet since 2016!!! And the actual upgrades were done by PAF perhaps earlier. What is this if not a absolute criminal negligence???

This pushed for immediate purchase of Israeli software defined radios in 2019. So someone knew how to fix the issue and procurement of ECM was not that hard.

The bigger question is Who the *censored* dropped the ball for all these years??????????

@vstol Jockey
@nair
@Ashwin
@randomradio
@screambowl
 
Last edited:
28 Feb 2019 PAF played a lot of its hands, it demonstrated superiority of AMRAAM over R-77. But I guess most important and seldom discussed demonstration is electronic warfare during this battle. Even this is not the most disturbing part. Not at all. Being deficient in some aspect is the nature of reality. Your enemy can have hidden strengths and you can have unknown vulnerabilities. The issue is totally different. You see, I have a sinking suspicion that EW vulnerabilities of IAF were not just know by IAF and MoD, they were widely and publically known in many many ..... many circles. To the point that the outcome of engagement was predicted almost 2-3 years in advanced. That too very publically.

Folks this is not the case of an advanced enemy beating an unprepared weak one. This is a case of a relatively strong power being highly ignorant and almost arrogantly stupid or criminally careless. I believe, IAF, IA that day were not just caught pant's down but were rather ... not wearing pants for very long time and possibly have only picked up fig leaves to cover their posteriors, not to mention since there was no political fallout from the event, most likely NO lesson was EVER learnt and only bandaids have been applied.

Let me present you with something that I found rather mind boggling. The revelations start in May 2016, in the 10th China International Defense Electronics Exhibition (CIDEX) 国产作战指挥系统曝光 东风26可随时打击南海_军事频道_凤凰网 . The exhibition had a section on EW with this image :

View attachment 32591

This alone should have raised alarms in south block. This is a very public advertisement of Chinese export of its fixed wing counter communication EW suite, JN1101-F to Pakistan on its 26th airwing called Blinders having old Dassault Aviation 20 planes. I don't know if this was missed or deliberately ignored or just a careless ignorance.

It is rather disturbing that even public blogs and media picked this up and was extensively covered from 2016 all the way to 2018.

Nov 2017
India wants to return goods from Russia! Because of China's small antenna, the Pakistan Air Force is like a tiger.



May 2016
Pakistan's electronic warfare aircraft uses China's upgrade to comprehensively suppress Indian Su-30


Dec 2016
What new aircraft did Pakistan display that made India very unhappy? This will prevent the Su-30 from contacting the ground at all.


It is noteworthy that all of this was floating on internet since 2016!!! And the actual upgrades were done by PAF perhaps earlier. What is this if not a absolute criminal negligence???

This pushed for immediate purchase of Israeli software defined radios in 2019. So someone knew how to fix the issue and procurement of ECM was not that hard.

The bigger question is Who the *censored* dropped the ball for all these years??????????

@vstol Jockey
@nair
@Ashwin
@randomradio
@screambowl
When you a government & a pm who concentrate only on public image & shows off this scenario not gonna change.
28 Feb 2019 PAF played a lot of its hands, it demonstrated superiority of AMRAAM over R-77. But I guess most important and seldom discussed demonstration is electronic warfare during this battle. Even this is not the most disturbing part. Not at all. Being deficient in some aspect is the nature of reality. Your enemy can have hidden strengths and you can have unknown vulnerabilities. The issue is totally different. You see, I have a sinking suspicion that EW vulnerabilities of IAF were not just know by IAF and MoD, they were widely and publically known in many many ..... many circles. To the point that the outcome of engagement was predicted almost 2-3 years in advanced. That too very publically.

Folks this is not the case of an advanced enemy beating an unprepared weak one. This is a case of a relatively strong power being highly ignorant and almost arrogantly stupid or criminally careless. I believe, IAF, IA that day were not just caught pant's down but were rather ... not wearing pants for very long time and possibly have only picked up fig leaves to cover their posteriors, not to mention since there was no political fallout from the event, most likely NO lesson was EVER learnt and only bandaids have been applied.

Let me present you with something that I found rather mind boggling. The revelations start in May 2016, in the 10th China International Defense Electronics Exhibition (CIDEX) 国产作战指挥系统曝光 东风26可随时打击南海_军事频道_凤凰网 . The exhibition had a section on EW with this image :

View attachment 32591

This alone should have raised alarms in south block. This is a very public advertisement of Chinese export of its fixed wing counter communication EW suite, JN1101-F to Pakistan on its 26th airwing called Blinders having old Dassault Aviation 20 planes. I don't know if this was missed or deliberately ignored or just a careless ignorance.

It is rather disturbing that even public blogs and media picked this up and was extensively covered from 2016 all the way to 2018.

Nov 2017
India wants to return goods from Russia! Because of China's small antenna, the Pakistan Air Force is like a tiger.



May 2016
Pakistan's electronic warfare aircraft uses China's upgrade to comprehensively suppress Indian Su-30


Dec 2016
What new aircraft did Pakistan display that made India very unhappy? This will prevent the Su-30 from contacting the ground at all.


It is noteworthy that all of this was floating on internet since 2016!!! And the actual upgrades were done by PAF perhaps earlier. What is this if not a absolute criminal negligence???

This pushed for immediate purchase of Israeli software defined radios in 2019. So someone knew how to fix the issue and procurement of ECM was not that hard.

The bigger question is Who the *censored* dropped the ball for all these years??????????

@vstol Jockey
@nair
@Ashwin
@randomradio
@screambowl
28 Feb 2019 PAF played a lot of its hands, it demonstrated superiority of AMRAAM over R-77. But I guess most important and seldom discussed demonstration is electronic warfare during this battle. Even this is not the most disturbing part. Not at all. Being deficient in some aspect is the nature of reality. Your enemy can have hidden strengths and you can have unknown vulnerabilities. The issue is totally different. You see, I have a sinking suspicion that EW vulnerabilities of IAF were not just know by IAF and MoD, they were widely and publically known in many many ..... many circles. To the point that the outcome of engagement was predicted almost 2-3 years in advanced. That too very publically.

Folks this is not the case of an advanced enemy beating an unprepared weak one. This is a case of a relatively strong power being highly ignorant and almost arrogantly stupid or criminally careless. I believe, IAF, IA that day were not just caught pant's down but were rather ... not wearing pants for very long time and possibly have only picked up fig leaves to cover their posteriors, not to mention since there was no political fallout from the event, most likely NO lesson was EVER learnt and only bandaids have been applied.

Let me present you with something that I found rather mind boggling. The revelations start in May 2016, in the 10th China International Defense Electronics Exhibition (CIDEX) 国产作战指挥系统曝光 东风26可随时打击南海_军事频道_凤凰网 . The exhibition had a section on EW with this image :

View attachment 32591

This alone should have raised alarms in south block. This is a very public advertisement of Chinese export of its fixed wing counter communication EW suite, JN1101-F to Pakistan on its 26th airwing called Blinders having old Dassault Aviation 20 planes. I don't know if this was missed or deliberately ignored or just a careless ignorance.

It is rather disturbing that even public blogs and media picked this up and was extensively covered from 2016 all the way to 2018.

Nov 2017
India wants to return goods from Russia! Because of China's small antenna, the Pakistan Air Force is like a tiger.



May 2016
Pakistan's electronic warfare aircraft uses China's upgrade to comprehensively suppress Indian Su-30


Dec 2016
What new aircraft did Pakistan display that made India very unhappy? This will prevent the Su-30 from contacting the ground at all.


It is noteworthy that all of this was floating on internet since 2016!!! And the actual upgrades were done by PAF perhaps earlier. What is this if not a absolute criminal negligence???

This pushed for immediate purchase of Israeli software defined radios in 2019. So someone knew how to fix the issue and procurement of ECM was not that hard.

The bigger question is Who the *censored* dropped the ball for all these years??????????

@vstol Jockey
@nair
@Ashwin
@randomradio
@screambowl
I said many times in past, I will say again and again. IAFvwas not sanction follow on phalcon AWACS so far over cost issues. Mean time a special pvt jet of similar cost was procured for vvip transportation. Same thing is applied ti istar, elinet platforms too, not sanctioned from government.
 
When you a government & a pm who concentrate only on public image & shows off this scenario not gonna change.
I don't think any PM or RM have even enough neurons to understand the nitty gritty of EW or anything military related. These things are run by babus or specialists in south block.
I said many times in past, I will say again and again. IAFvwas not sanction follow on phalcon AWACS so far over cost issues. Mean time a special pvt jet of similar cost was procured for vvip transportation. Same thing is applied ti istar, elinet platforms too, not sanctioned from government.
This is not even AWACS things. This is much simpler and way less costly comm thing. They needed comms equipment more resistant to jamming. And they had the perfect partner for it : Israel. These are not even expensive.

 
Some people accept P o r k i propaganda as gospel it seems🙄
This is not propaganda. There are tell tale signs of our EW vunlerability. IAF decided to procure BNet Software Defined Radio communication equipments immediately through emergency purchase just after Feb 2019. In April 2019, India issued an emergency procurement of BNet Software defined radio communication equipments for IAF. This is well documented in israeli and indian sources that weakness of communication was the reason why Abhinandan vartman did not bug out of precarious situation. Remember, he would have been dead and is very very lucky to be alive.
 
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I don't think any PM or RM have even enough neurons to understand the nitty gritty of EW or anything military related. These things are run by babus or specialists in south block.
Don't expect much from a man on EW " who thinks Clouds will help aircraft to evade radar detection".
 
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Don't expect much from a man on EW " who thinks Clouds will help aircraft to evade radar detection".
Honestly, its not his job to know every darned thing. Not at all. Its the job of his underlings. Someone in South Block should have been working on it. If he has to be a electronics engineer, a software expert, a politicians, a sociologist, and educator then India is done for. We just blame him because he is visible. Infact it is his job to be visible. Politics or rather democractic politics is a popularity contest for ugly people.
 
Honestly, its not his job to know every darned thing. Not at all. Its the job of his underlings. Someone in South Block should have been working on it. If he has to be a electronics engineer, a software expert, a politicians, a sociologist, and educator then India is done for. We just blame him because he is visible. Infact it is his job to be visible. Politics or rather democractic politics is a popularity contest for ugly people.
If you are ignorant this much ,he will not able to appoint competent enough people under him.
 
Here is more:

ARC achieves major milestone in first purchase order: Rafael Places $30 Million Order to ARC​


Rafael Advanced Systems Ltd (Israel) actually entered in a partnership with Astra Microwave to form a JV in Bengaluru back in 2013. Apparently even they knew that there will be a need to buy secure comms equipment in Indian military even as early as 2013.

What is more telling is that on 19th Feb 2019, IAF gave a contract to buy BNet SDRs for 30 million dollars. Someone SURELY woke up in south block while plan to attack Pakistan's Balakot terror camp was being formulated. Only too little too late. Sure as hell there was unease in IAF and south block about this vulnerability which is why they rushed to place an order on 19th Feb 2019 Just days before the attack. They knew if they had to face PAF EW planes, they are in soup!

What is criminally negligent is that from 2013 till 2019 they were sleeping on it!
If you are ignorant this much ,he will not able to appoint competent enough people under him.
Let me ask you, how many engineers are aware of interaction of radio waves with clouds? Some DO interact and are disrrupted. Weather radars are a thing after all.

He DOES NOT even have a background in engineering or science! And besides, there are already people who can vett for technical abilities.
 
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Here is more:

ARC achieves major milestone in first purchase order: Rafael Places $30 Million Order to ARC​


Rafael Advanced Systems Ltd (Israel) actually entered in a partnership with Astra Microwave to form a JV in Bengaluru back in 2013. Apparently even they knew that there will be a need to buy secure comms equipment in Indian military even as early as 2013.

What is more telling is that on 19th Feb 2019, IAF gave a contract to buy BNet SDRs for 30 million dollars. Someone SURELY woke up in south block while plan to attack Pakistan's Balakot terror camp was being formulated. Only too little too late. Sure as hell there was unease in IAF and south block about this vulnerability which is why they rushed to place an order on 19th Feb 2019 Just days before the attack. They knew if they had to face PAF EW planes, they are in soup!

What is criminally negligent is that from 2013 till 2019 they were sleeping on it!

Let me ask you, how many engineers are aware of interaction of radio waves with clouds? Some DO interact and are disrrupted. Weather radars are a thing after all.

He DOES NOT even have a background in engineering or science! And besides, there are already people who can vett for technical abilities.
AK Antony in saffron dhoti is what parker & Rajnath. That is "incompetent".
 
My understanding is: this is a cluster *censored* by south block! They sat on this for 6 years or so. And this was not even expensive. 30 million dollars worth of radios! This must be a joke!

@vstol Jockey Any opinion?
AK Antony in saffron dhoti is what parker & Rajnath. That is "incompetent".
I highly doubt that ANY politician can do this for babus. Sure Babus can be shafted after the fact. But this is really a failure of Indian deep state.
 
I highly doubt that ANY politician can do this for babus. Sure Babus can be shafted after the fact. But this is really a failure of Indian deep state.

I highly doubt that ANY politician can do this for babus. Sure Babus can be shafted after the fact. But this is really a failure of Indian deep state.
Tell this to grave yard of George Fernandez
 
B-Net was planned before Swift Retreat. Integration of R-77-1 and Derby-ER was planned before it as well.

We may have had some shortcomings during that time but I would trade F-16 with Mig-21 every single time.

2 MKIs stopping whole PAF F-16 fleet is nothing short of miracle and display of incredible skill. MKIs on offence would be flying 50k feet+ and then even normal R-77 would have decent range. At 15000 feet MKIs were always at a disadvantage against 30k feet+ flying F-16s with AIM-120C5 combo.
 
B-Net was planned before Swift Retreat. Integration of R-77-1 and Derby-ER was planned before it as well.

We may have had some shortcomings during that time but I would trade F-16 with Mig-21 every single time.

2 MKIs stopping whole PAF F-16 fleet is nothing short of miracle and display of incredible skill. MKIs on offence would be flying 50k feet+ and then even normal R-77 would have decent range. At 15000 feet MKIs were always at a disadvantage against 30k feet+ flying F-16s with AIM-120C5 combo.
I would rather not be caught pants down or not wearing pants at all when I am going for a war. The issue was known and was in public domain for way too long.
 
I would rather not be caught pants down or not wearing pants at all when I am going for a war. The issue was known and was in public domain for way too long.
IAF was for waiting for Rafale + Meteor combo as panacea and in process almost overlooked MKI's upgrade process. Thankfully Swift Retreat opened IAF's eyes towards full MKI air to air capabilities and now just within the next few years MKI will once edge out our Rafale to become our number 1 air to air fighter with all the upgrades.
 
My understanding is: this is a cluster *censored* by south block! They sat on this for 6 years or so. And this was not even expensive. 30 million dollars worth of radios! This must be a joke!

@vstol Jockey Any opinion?

I highly doubt that ANY politician can do this for babus. Sure Babus can be shafted after the fact. But this is really a failure of Indian deep state.
Our communications were jammed only to some extent. But the jamming done by us was far more effective than what PAF did.
 
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28 Feb 2019 PAF played a lot of its hands, it demonstrated superiority of AMRAAM over R-77. But I guess most important and seldom discussed demonstration is electronic warfare during this battle. Even this is not the most disturbing part. Not at all. Being deficient in some aspect is the nature of reality. Your enemy can have hidden strengths and you can have unknown vulnerabilities. The issue is totally different. You see, I have a sinking suspicion that EW vulnerabilities of IAF were not just know by IAF and MoD, they were widely and publically known in many many ..... many circles. To the point that the outcome of engagement was predicted almost 2-3 years in advanced. That too very publically.

Folks this is not the case of an advanced enemy beating an unprepared weak one. This is a case of a relatively strong power being highly ignorant and almost arrogantly stupid or criminally careless. I believe, IAF, IA that day were not just caught pant's down but were rather ... not wearing pants for very long time and possibly have only picked up fig leaves to cover their posteriors, not to mention since there was no political fallout from the event, most likely NO lesson was EVER learnt and only bandaids have been applied.

Let me present you with something that I found rather mind boggling. The revelations start in May 2016, in the 10th China International Defense Electronics Exhibition (CIDEX) 国产作战指挥系统曝光 东风26可随时打击南海_军事频道_凤凰网 . The exhibition had a section on EW with this image :

View attachment 32591

This alone should have raised alarms in south block. This is a very public advertisement of Chinese export of its fixed wing counter communication EW suite, JN1101-F to Pakistan on its 26th airwing called Blinders having old Dassault Aviation 20 planes. I don't know if this was missed or deliberately ignored or just a careless ignorance.

It is rather disturbing that even public blogs and media picked this up and was extensively covered from 2016 all the way to 2018.

Nov 2017
India wants to return goods from Russia! Because of China's small antenna, the Pakistan Air Force is like a tiger.



May 2016
Pakistan's electronic warfare aircraft uses China's upgrade to comprehensively suppress Indian Su-30


Dec 2016
What new aircraft did Pakistan display that made India very unhappy? This will prevent the Su-30 from contacting the ground at all.


It is noteworthy that all of this was floating on internet since 2016!!! And the actual upgrades were done by PAF perhaps earlier. What is this if not a absolute criminal negligence???

This pushed for immediate purchase of Israeli software defined radios in 2019. So someone knew how to fix the issue and procurement of ECM was not that hard.

The bigger question is Who the *censored* dropped the ball for all these years??????????

@vstol Jockey
@nair
@Ashwin
@randomradio
@screambowl

Um... The SDR we bought from Israel was a tender we initiated in 2013. And we signed the contract a few days before the IAF's Balakot attack.
 
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This is not propaganda. There are tell tale signs of our EW vunlerability. IAF decided to procure BNet Software Defined Radio communication equipments immediately through emergency purchase just after Feb 2019. In April 2019, India issued an emergency procurement of BNet Software defined radio communication equipments for IAF. This is well documented in israeli and indian sources that weakness of communication was the reason why Abhinandan vartman did not bug out of precarious situation. Remember, he would have been dead and is very very lucky to be alive.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is planning to deploy an advanced communications network, the MOD has invited several international companies to participate in an international tender to offer software defined radio based communications for the networks’ airborne and ground based segments. Initial testing are expected to commence in February 2013. The companies competing in this program are IAI and RAFAEL from Israel, the US company Rockwell Collins and Rhode & Schwartz of Germany.
According to RAFAEL, the system they are offering is based on a new family of SDR systems developed by the company in recent years, that have been recently selected by the Brazilian and Columbian Air Forces for airborne networking applications. RAFAEL began the development of BNet as a ground based network, adapting the system for airborne and air-ground applications. RAFAEL plans to transfer considerable elements of the system development and production to India, enabling local partners to share a major part of the program in the current phase and also benefit from its future spinoffs.

According to RAFAEL, the efficiency of BNet as an adaptable network means that the airborne communications could provide in the future the basis for advanced terrestrial communications, supporting land-based applications as well.

At a ceremony earlier today (February 20, 2019) at the 2019 Aero India defense exhibition in Bengaluru, India, Rafael Advanced Defense Systems CEO, Major General (ret.) Yoav Har-Even, presented Chief Operations Officer of ASTRA RAFAEL COMSYS PVT LTD (ARC), Brigadier Ravi Hariharan with a $30 million purchase order for the manufacture, test-before-integration, and lifecycle support management for a complete set of the BNet Software Defined Radio system for the Indian Air Force. This order is the first contract for ARC, the joint venture between Rafael and India’s Astra Microwave Products Ltd.

Balakot attack date: Feb 26th, 2019.
 
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Most probably IAF thought that they will be able to manage without any new EW capabilities. But I would say what ever happened that day was a blessing in disguise. They atleast know now that for China the capabilities have to be enhanced to much higher level.