I don't wish a truck would run over you but I wouldn't care too much if it did.Alas, your wish will remain unfulfilled for a very long period of time even if you start praying for it.
Astra Series Air to Air Missiles
- Thread starter Fatalis
- Start date
There's no love lost for HAL in this forum. Probably hold a party if it gets privatised / free from babudom
As I said just before we begun our Ops against P o rks, the Chinis did give them the real PL-15s(from initial batches) rather than the export E variant. But what is downright laughable is that for a missile as advance as PL-15 with dual-pulse motor and AESA RF seeker, they didn't implement the 'self-destruct' mode in it! So we found multiple units almost intact, lol.
We most definitely will decipher all their secrets(be it ECCM, RF seeker or high-density energy rich propellant) and improve our Astra-2 accordingly along with dialling the ECM of all our fighter jets and ADS. @South block
We most definitely will decipher all their secrets(be it ECCM, RF seeker or high-density energy rich propellant) and improve our Astra-2 accordingly along with dialling the ECM of all our fighter jets and ADS. @South block
As always, a great video by Shiv and Vishnu regarding the A2A missile. We should go with the R37 in small numbers to keep the edge over the enemy's BVR missile. As I said earlier, the loop of development and test and order will kill the product before it's available for IAF. Now Astra Mk1 is outranged, and maybe Astra Mk2 will also be. We need to catch up fast, and not tomorrow but today. Also, a good multispectral jammer for our fighter...
The Sky sting will have an easier time getting inducted. Russia is still engaged in Ukraine and will not be willing to part with its stock. If anyone has doubts, please have a look at the weapon systems that find themselves stalled due to the years of war.
If India has to take the imported route for the BVR, RADS can partner with a domestic partner quicker.
Pakistan will fire 120 D and Pl15,16 in the next fight. I believe we should 1st intitate discussions with Russia regarding the acquisition of a few R-37 missiles to maintain an edge over our adversaries. I hope the IAF and MOD are aligned in their understanding of the current situation. The primary benefit of the R-37 is that it won't face integration delays like the Sky Sting missile might, as it is already compatible with the Russian Su-30 and Su-35. While Sky Sting is a good missile for the LCA, but it may take some time for integration.
Sky sting integration on LCA mk1a, logically will take the same time as R37's integration with SU30MKI.
LCA mk1a is usingbIsraeli radar as of now.
Not everything is about range seeker capability and other things also matters. In that regards Astra Mk2 matches PL15 and will not be "outdated". Especially against Pak Astra Mk2 is more than enough. What must be the focus now is making ground radars/sensors fully integrated with AWACS to provide additional tracking updates to BVRM while in flight. Which I think is already in place. Now we just need Astra Mk2 asap.
The MKI already carries Israeli weapons. You can check this for yourself - Rampage being the latest addition. I do not foresee any problems arising with its integration. However, if anyone has information to the contrary please do share it.
Let's not forget that SkySting proposal is more akin to a co-development similar to that of the Barak-8/MRSAM.
We all know how long it took for both parties to develop the MRSAM and deliver it to the three services.
The Skysting was only unveiled in 2023 and is unlikely to have completed development because if it indeed was ready, the Israeli Air Force would be the first one to adopt it into service.
The best approach right now would be a off the shelf procurement of few hundred R-37M and procurement of 300-400 Astra Mk2 since that missile has been in LSP since 2023 and is at an advanced stage of maturity since it's essentially an enlarged Astra Mk1 with a dual pulse rocket motor.
The 200km range Astra Mk2-ER can come in later once it completes it's development cycle.
I agree with your arguments. However, I find the earlier part seems difficult to accomplish. I do not know the inventory levels of the Russians. I am more than inclined to believe that Russia cannot deliver the missile in the hundreds considering their situation. Astra both Mk1 and Mk2 need to be sped up. I agree on the Sky Sting bit. Again I do not know at what stage the missile itself happens to be in (it is not available in public). I have linked an article below that states that RADF has stated that it can integrate the missile with the MKI and Tejas as soon as it receives a nod.
Initial flight trials were successfully completed in 2024, and RAFAEL now considers the missile ready for low-risk integration on compatible fighter platforms.
Furthermore, the system is being offered for co-development and joint production under India’s “Make in India” and “Atmanirbhar Bharat” initiatives, potentially involving deep technology transfer and localized manufacturing.
For the Tejas Mk1A, the Sky Sting represents a quantum leap in combat capability, extending its engagement envelope from approximately 80–100 km (Derby-ER) to a staggering 250 km.
Such integration could elevate Tejas patrols into genuine high-value target interceptors, particularly in Himalayan and Ladakh sectors, where reaction times are short and standoff ranges dictate survival.
For the Su-30MKI, the missile’s integration offers strategic depth. The platform’s powerful radar systems, paired with Israeli-origin electronic warfare suites, can exploit the Sky Sting’s beyond-horizon launch capability, allowing the aircraft to engage enemy fighters or AWACS well before detection.
India Eyes RAFAEL’s 250 km “Sky Sting” Missile as Indo-Israeli Defence Alliance Strengthens Amid China-Pakistan Air Threats - Defence Security Asia
Israel’s RAFAEL offers India the 250 km Sky Sting BVRAAM — a 6th-generation hypersonic missile to counter China and Pakistan’s PL-15 and AMRAAM threats.
defencesecurityasia.com
Integration of any weapons is possible with MKI, but air-to-air missiles are quite complex and time-consuming in terms of integration. To be accurate, we need multiple tests to validate and add software patches to our fire control radar/mission computer to get the best result, and this is already done for R37 and SU30SM/SU35. R37 will not be the main course; this is just a starter. ASTRA MkII/MkIII will be your main course item.
Bvr missile needs radar's source code to get integrate. On mki sky sting integration will not be that much easy.
@Rajput Lion What's the low down with R37? What is the integration timeline (including all the bells and whistles) that can be expected for R37-MKI ?
I understand that bit. However, what kind of lag are you are expecting viz-a-viz system integration? R37 is also something that will be subject to geopolitical pressure and Russia's own ability to ensure supply.
Note - Vishnu Som says "PL-15 has an expected range of 250kms".
According to the video, the PL-15 missile has a range of 250 km (or "250 km plus") as described explicitly at several points, including at 2:01 and 3:16 in the transcript.
According to the video, the PL-15 missile has a range of 250 km (or "250 km plus") as described explicitly at several points, including at 2:01 and 3:16 in the transcript.
My message to both you and Hellfire - ISE stated that Meteor and Indian Weapon Systems would be integrated (as stated by DA). What happened here?
I'll tell you about the data that is available. Vishnu Som says the French are not keen on integrating French weapons (BVRs) with Israeli radars. The Meteor has never had a firing trial here in India (as per OSINT). Indian weapons have not been seen during any exercise on board an IAF Rafale.
While rest of your post is informative, this 
IAF bought fancy planes worth 8 or 9 billion euros in 2015 & their fancy meteors are nowhere to be seen. The fact that people can't even admit this problem should tell you all you need to know. Apart from their AWACS that got hit by beautifully timed/strategised brahmos hit, there is no proof of any other plane being destroyed.
Basically, you got owned in air to air aspect, while they owned in air to ground & ground to air aspects of the conflict.
sounds like whining. Sour grapes. They have their tactics, that yielded results for them despite their resource constraints.
IAF bought fancy planes worth 8 or 9 billion euros in 2015 & their fancy meteors are nowhere to be seen. The fact that people can't even admit this problem should tell you all you need to know. Apart from their AWACS that got hit by beautifully timed/strategised brahmos hit, there is no proof of any other plane being destroyed.
Basically, you got owned in air to air aspect, while they owned in air to ground & ground to air aspects of the conflict.