I will be performing pooja for the forum and for this thread. Bless up. May all you rascals have a good Diwali. Pooja will save us all as it always has. May my IFF always work and may my RWR not fail me again.
Astra Series Air to Air Missiles
- Thread starter Fatalis
- Start date
I will be performing pooja for the forum and for this thread. Bless up. May all you rascals have a good Diwali. Pooja will save us all as it always has. May my IFF always work and may my RWR not fail me again.
Israeli radar means Tejas won’t have Meteor missile
The contracts signed were for two major avionics systems that will determine the combat capability of an improved Tejas fighter, called the Tejas Mark 1A. One was for the ELM-2052 “active electronically scanned array” (AESA) radar, developed by IAI subsidiary, Elta. The other was for Elta’s “electronic warfare” (EW) system.
Equipping the Tejas Mark 1A with Elta’s ELM-2052 radar will ensure the fighter never carries the world-beating Meteor “beyond visual range” (BVR) air-to-air missile. MBDA, the European consortium that builds the Meteor, has repeatedly told the IAF that it would only fit that missile onto a fighter with a European airborne radar. Choosing an Elta AESA radar for the Tejas Mark 1A, therefore, rules out the Meteor and, with it, any hope that the IAF will buy the Mark 1A in significant numbers.
Ajai Shukla states exactly what was stated by Vishnu Som. Vishnu used nuanced and diplomatic language. Never has any point to the contrary been stated in the quote or the video.
I am having to put this in for those clowns parading around trying to have an ahaaa moment. Do not come for me. It was used an example and it was indeed a mistake to assume that all will take it as such and not cling onto it. I hope you can read and write English at a high school level and follow a coherent thought process when you engage others (including me).
"Now, why both were missing. Non of us had asked why brahmos was missing in 2016 post uri avenge & balakot strike. You think that Brahmose was not in active duty? Its jurisdiction of the force on what to use and what note."
This is something that definitely could have been discussed. If there are older members who had this take please point it out or share it on the relevant thread. @Defc0n, me, @redpanda, @FalconSlayers have discussed why certain land based assets (such as SRBMs) were not used during the May conflict.
This is something that definitely could have been discussed. If there are older members who had this take please point it out or share it on the relevant thread. @Defc0n, me, @redpanda, @FalconSlayers have discussed why certain land based assets (such as SRBMs) were not used during the May conflict.
For a brief moment during the engagement on 7th of May, the PAF had superior situational awareness, something which they fully exploited to their advantage and likely got 1 maybe more Rafales and a few other jets shot down. Even the IAF admits this.While rest of your post is informative, this
sounds like whining. Sour grapes. They have their tactics, that yielded results for them despite their resource constraints.
IAF bought fancy planes worth 8 or 9 billion euros in 2015 & their fancy meteors are nowhere to be seen. The fact that people can't even admit this problem should tell you all you need to know. Apart from their AWACS that got hit by beautifully timed/strategised brahmos hit, there is no proof of any other plane being destroyed.
Basically, you got owned in air to air aspect, while they owned in air to ground & ground to air aspects of the conflict.
Be rest assured in the next conflict, even the air to air war will be very different. The IAF will have learnt it's lessons.
Well that aged like milk cuz IAF now wants almost 200 Tejas Mk1A. The key squabbling here is why there was no Meteor, whether to use Meteor, whether to buy Sky Sting, whether to buy R37M. All of this need to be settled by inducting Astra Mk2 and Gandiva. They need to push for the deployment of Astra Mk2 ASAP, because it will be a true game changer for the Indian BVRM capability. I understand that BVRM development is complex, our journey started in 1989 and now Astra Mk1 only achieved production in 2024 almost 40 years later! But we need to speed up our indigenous development. We need to do the same for our own AESA radars because so long as we use Israeli/Russian/French radars we will always be going from one vendor to another like clowns for BVRs and other weapons and spend crore of money and years of effort to integrate different missle systems for different radars.Israeli radar means Tejas won’t have Meteor missile
www.ajaishukla.com
The contracts signed were for two major avionics systems that will determine the combat capability of an improved Tejas fighter, called the Tejas Mark 1A. One was for the ELM-2052 “active electronically scanned array” (AESA) radar, developed by IAI subsidiary, Elta. The other was for Elta’s “electronic warfare” (EW) system.
Equipping the Tejas Mark 1A with Elta’s ELM-2052 radar will ensure the fighter never carries the world-beating Meteor “beyond visual range” (BVR) air-to-air missile. MBDA, the European consortium that builds the Meteor, has repeatedly told the IAF that it would only fit that missile onto a fighter with a European airborne radar. Choosing an Elta AESA radar for the Tejas Mark 1A, therefore, rules out the Meteor and, with it, any hope that the IAF will buy the Mark 1A in significant numbers.
Ajai Shukla states exactly what was stated by Vishnu Som. Vishnu used nuanced and diplomatic language. Never has any point to the contrary been stated in the quote or the video.
I am having to put this in for those clowns parading around trying to have an ahaaa moment. Do not come for me. It was used an example and it was indeed a mistake to assume that all will take it as such and not cling onto it. I hope you can read and write English at a high school level and follow a coherent thought process when you engage others (including me).
Once Uttam, Virupaksha come online along with Gandiva and Astra Mk2 hopefully in the next 4-5 years this entire clown show will come to an end forever and we can integrate whatever we want to. That fact that it has taken THIS long for us and we haven't even integrated our own radar for LCA shows the sad state of the Indian aerospace industry. Baba Kalyani says we are process driven not product driven and this circus is the result of that.
Yep, that's right. No matter how much insults are hurled at the Indian MIC, it has to come up with its own solutions.
Bharat Karnad articles on MBDA and the Rafale are controversial. However, he says that we as buyers have failed our forces when we could not get the French, whom we were dealing with, and MBDA (French are stake holders) to give a nod on integrating the Meteor to the Tejas. They stalled and gave every excuse feasible. He butchered the govt. when it comes to the MBDA dealings. He also says the same things - Apna system nahi, then problems galore.
Search Results for “MBDA” – Security Wise
Bharat Karnad - India's Foremost Conservative Strategist
bharatkarnad.com
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Since we've all the necessary source codes of BARS, integrating any missile is possible with MKI. R-37M was already tested by MKI post Balakot in 2019 itself, though IAF didn't order it at that time. Since R-37M is fully mature missile, integration timeline would be below 6 months, IMO.
PS: We should grab Israeli offer of "Sky Sting" with both hands. A 250kms triple-pulse missile is like a Goldmine waiting for us. Though, since the missile isn't fully developed or mature yet, so integration timelime could be longer. Another problem is the Russians themselves who went crazy last time when IAF wanted to integrate i-Derby ER(though we still did it covertly
), as they don't want BVR sales going to Israel. Let's see what we choose.
No imports. Only Astra Mk2 in large numbers and eventually Gandiva. Seriously R37M will only be truly effective against large aircraft for which anyways we have S400!!! And if we sign deal when will we actually get it considering Russia Ukraine war? When will this *censored*ing clownshow of going to every tom dick and harry for imports of even missiles end? We're literally gasping for silver bullets at this rate ffs. Taking stuff from the jews or Russia wont cut it now, we need our own system asap.
Upgrading strike capability: India tests 800-km BrahMos - The Times of India
The Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Doesn't it makes more sense to order 200 Astra Mk2 with 160 km range right now, while keep on working on extending it's range? Why stop production till it's range is extended till 200km?Upgrading strike capability: India tests 800-km BrahMos - The Times of India
The Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.
This is like the ATGM development all over again. The current MPATGM is better than Milan 2Ts, but BDL is still producing Milan 2T, while we are trying to improve the MPATGM.
Me thinks they will do exactly that. Order some Mk2s RN to meet IAFs immediate BVRM requirment and then eventually order and produce the 200 km version en masse. Hopefully it doesn't take more than 2 years for them to increase the range by 40 km. Or perhaps they will start the range increase program right now and produce the 200 km version from 2027 itself to meet the 700 order.
According to news articles the test for 200km varient are supposed start in 6 months
Parallelly, DRDO is increasing the beyond visual range (BVR) of Astra Mark-2 missiles to over 200km from the earlier 160km, while is inducting over 280 Astra Mark-1 missiles with 100km range.Upgrading strike capability: India tests 800-km BrahMos - The Times of India
The Times of India brings the Latest & Top Breaking News on Politics and Current Affairs in India & around the World, Cricket, Sports, Business, Bollywood News and Entertainment, Science, Technology, Health & Fitness news & opinions from leading columnists.
“Along with trajectory shaping, the propulsion system is being upgraded to generate more thrust and burn for a longer time. If the trials are successful, Astra Mark-2 production can begin in six months. Otherwise, it will take a longer,” another source said.
IAF has already finalised the plan to induct an initial 700 Astra Mark-2 missiles for its Sukhoi-30MKI and Tejas jets. There is also an Astra Mark-3 on the way, with solid-fuel ducted ramjet (SFDR) propulsion to increase the range to 350kmm but it will take three years to become operational. The all-weather day and night capable Astra series of missiles are crucial because they will eventually replace the expensive Russian, French and Israeli BVR air-to-air missiles (BVRAAMs) that are imported to arm IAF fighters.
1. Looks like, Astra MK-1 won't be inducted in numbers and 200 + 48 is final total number.
2. Astra MK-2 + Gandhiva will become the main weapon for Su-30 MKI and Tejas Mk-1A.
3. Meteor will be the main weapon for Rafale. Not sure if we are planning to arm them with Astra MK-2 and Gandhiva.
4. Mirage 2000 will only carry Mica and Mig-29 will have only Russian missiles.
2. Astra MK-2 + Gandhiva will become the main weapon for Su-30 MKI and Tejas Mk-1A.
3. Meteor will be the main weapon for Rafale. Not sure if we are planning to arm them with Astra MK-2 and Gandhiva.
4. Mirage 2000 will only carry Mica and Mig-29 will have only Russian missiles.
IAF will never learn any lessons
Institutional Outlook is fuçked beyond repair. Same thing was said in '19 as well.
They'll keep chasing silver bullets worth 10s of billions while
will counter that with subsidised 
weapons. With just 2 billion they() outranged your 9 billion € worth of silver bullets.Lage raho baaki sab iss bakchodi mein, keep drip feeding domestic R&D and keep subjugating your weapon purchases to foreign policy. Why do you think modi wants more rafales??
Is it because rafales are such good planes??It's to smoothen India-EU FTA. similarly why is the submarine deal with Germany being persuaded despite both contenders failing to meet qualification requirements?? You can be sure some deal with italy will be worked out in the background as well to smoothen the pathway as these 3 are the largest economies in EU. Especially in the presence of 50% US tariffs, the urgency has increased suddenly. If Trump increases the scope of tariffs to include pharmaceuticals then Modi will throw even more money on Europeans to buy their subpar weapons.
IAF doesn't exist to defend India's skies. That's secondary. Primarily, they are a zoo where Modi will park whatever subpar toy he buys(shoves down their throats) based on foreign policy whims. If tomorrow Modi wants to improve relations with China, then Modi will shove J10 in IAF's throat & his toadies will justify it.
Forget aerial supremacy for next decade atleast. Topi ji doesn't believe in domestic R&D (as seen by decrease in yearly spending on R&D) & till he is in power this won't change.
Seems to me you are praising Modi..IAF will never learn any lessons
Institutional Outlook is fuçked beyond repair. Same thing was said in '19 as well.
They'll keep chasing silver bullets worth 10s of billions while
Lage raho baaki sab iss bakchodi mein, keep drip feeding domestic R&D and keep subjugating your weapon purchases to foreign policy. Why do you think modi wants more rafales??
It's to smoothen India-EU FTA. similarly why is the submarine deal with Germany being persuaded despite both contenders failing to meet qualification requirements?? You can be sure some deal with italy will be worked out in the background as well to smoothen the pathway as these 3 are the largest economies in EU. Especially in the presence of 50% US tariffs, the urgency has increased suddenly. If Trump increases the scope of tariffs to include pharmaceuticals then Modi will throw even more money on Europeans to buy their subpar weapons.
IAF doesn't exist to defend India's skies. That's secondary. Primarily, they are a zoo where Modi will park whatever subpar toy he buys(shoves down their throats) based on foreign policy whims. If tomorrow Modi wants to improve relations with China, then Modi will shove J10 in IAF's throat & his toadies will justify it.
Forget aerial supremacy for next decade atleast. Topi ji doesn't believe in domestic R&D (as seen by decrease in yearly spending on R&D) & till he is in power this won't change.
Foreign weapons purchase anyways going to drain forex, atleast he is building alternatives for our economic survival.
Don't know specifics , but R&D seems to be doing better compared to past ..
Because I couldn't remember any domestic successful programs of past.
Lot of private sector involvement has started..
ASTRA MK2 production to start Next year
The process of R&D gets refined over time as your understanding of and acclimatisation to technology improves.
1. I still feel that a decent number of Astra Mk1 should be bought. The simple reason again being that once the conflict has started, you will seldom be firing missiles beyond what your IFF can effectively function. And that's pretty much the 30-80km range in an airspace with multiple aircrafts, aewcs and layered SAM activities.
3. It's very essential to get Indian mission computers on Rafale if we want it to be effective in any conflict. Without that I would rather have a Su57 in IAF colors than the most advanced Rafale.
4. The Mig29s dont have a very long service life left.
If it was 2015 I would have said yes, go ahead and upadate the Mirage and Mig29 with more Indian weapons, but it's 2025 now, and 2030 will see start of Mig29 retirement. Doesn't really make sense now.
That's why all the work on Mig29s is actually being done on Navy's fleet, where we can get 15 more years easily.