Astra Series Air to Air Missiles

[Rajput Lion]

1. I still feel that a decent number of Astra Mk1 should be bought. The simple reason again being that once the conflict has started, you will seldom be firing missiles beyond what your IFF can effectively function. And that's pretty much the 30-80km range in an airspace with multiple aircrafts, aewcs and layered SAM activities.

3. It's very essential to get Indian mission computers on Rafale if we want it to be effective in any conflict. Without that I would rather have a Su57 in IAF colors than the most advanced Rafale.

4. The Mig29s dont have a very long service life left.

If it was 2015 I would have said yes, go ahead and upadate the Mirage and Mig29 with more Indian weapons, but it's 2025 now, and 2030 will see start of Mig29 retirement. Doesn't really make sense now.

That's why all the work on Mig29s is actually being done on Navy's fleet, where we can get 15 more years easily.

Astra MK1 ain't going anywhere. While it is well known that Astra MK2 will be the primary BVR for IAF's manned jets, but for UCAVs and CCAs like CATS Warrior etc. Astra MK1 is the perfect weapon of choice. So it will remain in production for a long time.

 

[babablacksheep]

Astra MK1 ain't going anywhere. While it is well known that Astra MK2 will be the primary BVR for IAF's manned jets, but for UCAVs and CCAs like CATS Warrior etc. Astra MK1 is the perfect weapon of choice.

Astra mk1 should be succeeded by the new kind of close combat missiles that are being developed.

I.e. insane maneuverability and g forces handling capabilities of wvr missiles with range of bvr missiles(80-100km)

 

[Ashwin]

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

Seems to me you are praising Modi..
Foreign weapons purchase anyways going to drain forex, atleast he is building alternatives for our economic survival.

Don't know specifics , but R&D seems to be doing better compared to past ..
Because I couldn't remember any domestic successful programs of past.
Lot of private sector involvement has started..

Reading comprehension issues....
Modi is pouring money into foreign weapons all the while India's R&D budget as % of GDP is reducing. He's not achieving either of the goals you mentioned - handicapping India's warfighting capability & draining forex at the same time. The net result of which was visible in May as supa dupa rafale got shot down.
Modi poured money into american MIC now he's facing 50% tariffs

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/10/17/india-trump-tariffs-modi-manufacturing

Incredible results of these policies. keep subjugating military procurement to foreign policy & the next time trump sneezes, half your navy becomes immobile.

Don't know specifics , but R&D seems to be doing better compared to past ..

That's the problem here, people will comment on any topic while admitting they don't know the specifics. You FEEL better, incredible.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/R-D-expenditure-as-a-percentage-of-GDP-in-India-Source-Compiled-by-the-author_fig1_370073229

India’s R&D needs a boost

India’s R&D expenditure is among the highest globally but when it comes to share of GDP it has been falling and is among the lowest. Cumulative global R&D spends have been growing and inching towards $2.5 trillion.

www.thehindubusinessline.com

The only reason topi ji gets votes is because pappu is the alternative, the day a better candidate appears, topi ji will be kicked off like a football.

 

[Speedster1]

You'd have thought that open system architecture mission computers on 4.5G jets allowed weapons integration without the need for source code. Clearly that's not the case.

Heck, there were reports a couple of years back that IAF Rafales would be fitted with the Russian-origin Kh-31ARM/AShM.

Btw, I wonder why the IAF/MoD didn't ask MBDA to produce Meteor locally with either BDL (by augmenting the ASRAAM line) or Kalyani. That would've left no wriggle room for MBDA. (economic/industrial leverage)

We could have even co-developed an India-specific Meteor variant on the lines of the UK-Japan JNAAM.

 

[Shan]

You'd have thought that open system architecture mission computers on 4.5G jets allowed weapons integration without the need for source code. Clearly that's not the case.

Heck, there were reports a couple of years back that IAF Rafales would be fitted with the Russian-origin Kh-31ARM/AShM.

Btw, I wonder why the IAF/MoD didn't ask MBDA to produce Meteor locally with either BDL (by augmenting the ASRAAM line) or Kalyani. That would've left no wriggle room for MBDA. (economic/industrial leverage)

We could have even co-developed an India-specific Meteor variant on the lines of the UK-Japan JNAAM.

Rafale would give the French long term ties with the IAF and MoD, the MoD babus just let any leverage or opportunities go when it came to IAF Aircraft X-Meteor. Karnad especially claims the frivolity with which Tejas in particular was sidelined by MBDA (who were present along with DA), disheartened him a lot.

MBDA cites complications in security and 'approval' as the primary reason for dismissal. Karnad believes the babus could have broken through due to the size of the order(s), and the guarantee that IAF would/could turn to them for more. Lo and behold, the IN has already ordered 26 aircrafts. Now, there is a follow on order that is likely to go through for the IAF. The same thing was implied for MBDA, we can be long term customers of the Meteor as it is the best that MBDA was offering.

It is an opportunity to earn money, Speedster. They explicitly stated buy a radar that is compatible (European) otherwise we cannot integrate Meteor. The data link is also a problem for MBDA (another issue raised during meetings). Every add-on and integration needs a little something. We have been taken to the cleaners quite a lot. It's just that it is not out in public and comes out much later only when there are leaks.

Could the Meteor have been integrated with the Tejas; Maybe or maybe not. We never really tried and look at the decisions post Rafale deal - IAF/MoD watched as HAL went about their business. Astra series and the Tejas line up should have been a national level priority.

 

[Speedster1]

They explicitly stated buy a radar that is compatible (European) otherwise we cannot integrate Meteor. The data link is also a problem for MBDA (another issue raised during meetings).

MBDA cites complications in security and 'approval' as the primary reason for dismissal. Karnad believes the babus could have broken through due to the size of the order(s), and the guarantee that IAF would/could turn to them for more. Lo and behold, the IN has already ordered 26 aircrafts

MBDA apparently had no such reservations integrating Meteor on the KF-21 which reportedly has a hybrid SoKo Israeli radar (Hanhwa antenna + Elta 2052 backend). Same approach we took for the MMR on Tejas Mk1.

Like any PSU, HAL picks suppliers based on L1 bids via open tenders. They couldn't care less about operational issues. That is the domain of the IAF.

I suspect our initial orders for Meteor were miniscule (<300) because of the high cost per unit. Can't remember the exact number I'd read on the SIPRI website.

MBDA could perhaps have been persuaded with a larger initial order + license production deal.

 

[babablacksheep]

I still feel that a decent number of Astra Mk1 should be bought. The simple reason again being that once the conflict has started, you will seldom be firing missiles beyond what your IFF can effectively function. And that's pretty much the 30-80km range in an airspace with multiple aircrafts, aewcs and layered SAM activities.

Only Partially true.


"IFF" can function on the other side of the world depending on what you're looking with and at. The level of confidence necessary to engage a target is a command level decision, you don't need perfect IFF and in the real world you're never gonna get that. No idea where that range number came from but generally if you can detect somebody with a modern ESA you can interrogate them.


And for one the engaging aircraft doesn't even have to be you doing the interrogating, just like detection and finding a targeting solution you can have individual donors that correlate data with each other. IFF is not just transponders and interrogators either, you can have a mid to high confidence ident just with ELINT/SIGINT.
NCTR alone allows you to go beyond the range of your average interrogator
whether that signal is prone to getting intercepted tho is case by case.



so if an airforce has the capability to engage at higher ranges regularly they will do that.

It also depends on how capable the enemy assests in the area are.

 

[RationalGuy]

IAF will never learn any lessons
Institutional Outlook is fuçked beyond repair. Same thing was said in '19 as well.

They'll keep chasing silver bullets worth 10s of billions while will counter that with subsidised weapons. With just 2 billion they() outranged your 9 billion € worth of silver bullets.

Lage raho baaki sab iss bakchodi mein, keep drip feeding domestic R&D and keep subjugating your weapon purchases to foreign policy. Why do you think modi wants more rafales?? Is it because rafales are such good planes??

It's to smoothen India-EU FTA. similarly why is the submarine deal with Germany being persuaded despite both contenders failing to meet qualification requirements?? You can be sure some deal with italy will be worked out in the background as well to smoothen the pathway as these 3 are the largest economies in EU. Especially in the presence of 50% US tariffs, the urgency has increased suddenly. If Trump increases the scope of tariffs to include pharmaceuticals then Modi will throw even more money on Europeans to buy their subpar weapons.

IAF doesn't exist to defend India's skies. That's secondary. Primarily, they are a zoo where Modi will park whatever subpar toy he buys(shoves down their throats) based on foreign policy whims. If tomorrow Modi wants to improve relations with China, then Modi will shove J10 in IAF's throat & his toadies will justify it.

Forget aerial supremacy for next decade atleast. Topi ji doesn't believe in domestic R&D (as seen by decrease in yearly spending on R&D) & till he is in power this won't change.

You're a typical example of just how delusionaly cynical an over emotional Indian can get. Zero rational analysis of events facts and likely trajectories. A quality which perhaps plauges many babus who are in charge of decision making ironically.

To call a weapon system supbar because it did not perform as intended in a single complex operation is just so silly. Perhaps the F35 is supbar considering it crashed multiple times.

1. I still feel that a decent number of Astra Mk1 should be bought. The simple reason again being that once the conflict has started, you will seldom be firing missiles beyond what your IFF can effectively function. And that's pretty much the 30-80km range in an airspace with multiple aircrafts, aewcs and layered SAM activities.

3. It's very essential to get Indian mission computers on Rafale if we want it to be effective in any conflict. Without that I would rather have a Su57 in IAF colors than the most advanced Rafale.

4. The Mig29s dont have a very long service life left.

If it was 2015 I would have said yes, go ahead and upadate the Mirage and Mig29 with more Indian weapons, but it's 2025 now, and 2030 will see start of Mig29 retirement. Doesn't really make sense now.

That's why all the work on Mig29s is actually being done on Navy's fleet, where we can get 15 more years easily.

Astra Mk1 and R77 should be our airborne air defence against low flying cruise missiles. Make Netra AWACS detect low flying terrain hugging cruise missiles and then guide Astra Mk1 and R77s fired from Tejas Mk1 to intercept the cruise missiles. Reserve the other missiles for WVR and BVR engagements against enemy aircraft. That way, our cruise missile defence capabilities get a major boost.

 

[marich01]

For a brief moment during the engagement on 7th of May, the PAF had superior situational awareness, something which they fully exploited to their advantage and likely got 1 maybe more Rafales and a few other jets shot down. Even the IAF admits this.

Be rest assured in the next conflict, even the air to air war will be very different. The IAF will have learnt it's lessons.

Without knowing exactly what constraints the IAF was working under due to demand by the PM and the political leadership group, we can not analyse what happened or not in a definitive way. In fact we do not yet have any concrete information or numbers. Everything is speculation and at the end of the day if speculation is taken at face value you come away with a situation of garbage input generating garbage output.

We have heard multiple times that there was no condition attached by the Govt side, and yet after the first day terror camp strike, every press release and media report had this message that only terror camps were struck. No military asset was struck or harmed. You simply can not have both these constraints as true at the same time on the first night incidents. Either IAF were prevented from striking back right away on that night, or they were allowed to return fire (natural logic) which would defy the strict govt order of no hitting on pak mil asset.

For me, I think weapon choice played a part along with non return of fire. If you use AASM Hammer or spice [hammer specifically because new batch available and very suitable for the job], you have to get a bit close. Secondly, if the jets were instructed to ground target hitting only it would not be fitted with Meteor like long range aam weapon, just the dogfight MICA like aam for self protection because the mission is to bomb a ground target.

We also do not know status of Pak Ad grid that night, but given the sead op that followed later 2 days and neutralisation of one specific enemy AD near Lahore (?) it meant that AD unit definitely engaged our pack aka jet shot down likely from ground Ad, not random Pl15 launched from deep inside pak.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

You're a typical example of just how delusionaly cynical an over emotional Indian can get. Zero rational analysis of events facts and likely trajectories. A quality which perhaps plauges many babus who are in charge of decision making ironically.

To call a weapon system supbar because it did not perform as intended in a single complex operation is just so silly. Perhaps the F35 is supbar considering it crashed multiple times.

Astra Mk1 and R77 should be our airborne air defence against low flying cruise missiles. Make Netra AWACS detect low flying terrain hugging cruise missiles and then guide Astra Mk1 and R77s fired from Tejas Mk1 to intercept the cruise missiles. Reserve the other missiles for WVR and BVR engagements against enemy aircraft. That way, our cruise missile defence capabilities get a major boost.

oooooh.......a butt-hurt rafale fanboy. Did I hurt your fee-fees by insulting Rafales????
Are we still having these discussions over whether rafales are good or bad in the month of october '25?? Incredible!!! These guys went all silent when their $300 mil+ messiah got smacked out the air by a $70 mil J10.

A guy accusing others of being overly emotional cant compute the rational conclusion to be taken when a $300mil+ gold plated Rafale was smacked out of the sky by a $70 mil chinese tin can. Let me spell it out for you, the differences in survivability of 2 non-stealth 4th gen a/c is marginal. Now you can burn however much money you want on these a/c, they will not give you superiority.

Internet is an amazing place!!! A person calling himself "RationalGuy" cant understand the basic priciple - war is not won through uber expensive wonder-weapons. Its won by good enough weapons in good enough quantities. Tactics & logistics are more important. This was the whole discussion in may. Indranil made the same point. Where the fuk were you then??? I'm not regurgitating that whole discussion again. You can go through my acc to see the points I made then.

Zero rational analysis of events facts and likely trajectories. A quality which perhaps plauges many babus who are in charge of decision making ironically.

You can see the single digit braincells of Rafale fanboys trying to connect completely different things. Not sure from where babus came into the discussion, but carry on!!!

To call a weapon system supbar because it did not perform as intended in a single complex operation is just so silly. Perhaps the F35 is supbar considering it crashed multiple times.

Incredible!!!! Just incredible!!!
The basic problem with rafale is its non-stealth airframe. The main argument against rafales is that it doesn't make sense to buy such an uber expensive non-stealth a/c in 2025. I'm not sure how rafales will rectify this in their next combat operation??? Will it grow extra engines/hardpoints/wings to justify its $300 mil+ price tag. Will they shed their skin like snakes & magically have stealth shaping next time around????

And to compare Rafales to F-35s is just incredible. F-35s are cheaper than Rafales & their stealth shaping gives them considerable advantage over other 4.5 gen a/c. This is the reason despite all of F-35s failings, they justify their price tag, rafales not so much. The irony of a rafale fanboy not understanding this difference is just incredible. Just tone deaf to the max.

Anyways, its diwali. eh.....no point in regurgitating same discussion again & again with rafale fanboys. I used to wonder why pakistanis would get so jubilant over Rafale narrative. These are not indian a/c, I dont understand why any indian would care about rafales. But i guess RationalGuy is type of audience that rafale narrative is meant for. Rafale ko apna devta bana liya hai.So, they get butt-hurt when someone insults rafales. I have been trashing Rafales from atleast 2022. They dont justify their price tag. Whining over it wont change that.

 

[Shan]

MBDA apparently had no such reservations integrating Meteor on the KF-21 which reportedly has a hybrid SoKo Israeli radar (Hanhwa antenna + Elta 2052 backend). Same approach we took for the MMR on Tejas Mk1.

Like any PSU, HAL picks suppliers based on L1 bids via open tenders. They couldn't care less about operational issues. That is the domain of the IAF.

I suspect our initial orders for Meteor were miniscule (<300) because of the high cost per unit. Can't remember the exact number I'd read on the SIPRI website.

MBDA could perhaps have been persuaded with a larger initial order + license production deal.

I was unaware of SoKo negotiations. Hanwha is ruthlessly pragmatic and tries to do everything possible to ensure their product is a success and on time (KAI is also 5x better that any DPSU here). So, I am not surprised that they were able to get a deal done.

The order quantity could very well explain what happened during those rounds of visits and meetings. MEA - let's not forget the attitude of those babus who run it. The less said about MoD folks, the better it will be. However, never forget the EU tends to remind you that we also have product X that is better than product Y. We can penalise you for not going for our products (why let go of such naive people when they are already here). Look at the hit pieces that were run against Rafale and Su-30 MKI. There are many which originated in Europe. DA is a European manufacturer, yet the negative PR it faces from the continent is brutal. MBDA itself is highly bureaucratic (you can watch documentaries that show how 'absurdity' of European bureaucracy ends up causing far reaching effects). A few jilted European babus can cause more damage that you can imagine.

The rest is all speculations. I have let the matter go. I had a tiff earlier due to the very same reasons as many do not understand the extent to which certain policy changes are needed.

 

[redpanda]

oooooh.......a butt-hurt rafale fanboy. Did I hurt your fee-fees by insulting Rafales????
Are we still having these discussions over whether rafales are good or bad in the month of october '25?? Incredible!!! These guys went all silent when their $300 mil+ messiah got smacked out the air by a $70 mil J10.

A guy accusing others of being overly emotional cant compute the rational conclusion to be taken when a $300mil+ gold plated Rafale was smacked out of the sky by a $70 mil chinese tin can. Let me spell it out for you, the differences in survivability of 2 non-stealth 4th gen a/c is marginal. Now you can burn however much money you want on these a/c, they will not give you superiority.

Internet is an amazing place!!! A person calling himself "RationalGuy" cant understand the basic priciple - war is not won through uber expensive wonder-weapons. Its won by good enough weapons in good enough quantities. Tactics & logistics are more important. This was the whole discussion in may. Indranil made the same point. Where the fuk were you then??? I'm not regurgitating that whole discussion again. You can go through my acc to see the points I made then.


You can see the single digit braincells of Rafale fanboys trying to connect completely different things. Not sure from where babus came into the discussion, but carry on!!!


Incredible!!!! Just incredible!!!
The basic problem with rafale is its non-stealth airframe. The main argument against rafales is that it doesn't make sense to buy such an uber expensive non-stealth a/c in 2025. I'm not sure how rafales will rectify this in their next combat operation??? Will it grow extra engines/hardpoints/wings to justify its $300 mil+ price tag. Will they shed their skin like snakes & magically have stealth shaping next time around????

And to compare Rafales to F-35s is just incredible. F-35s are cheaper than Rafales & their stealth shaping gives them considerable advantage over other 4.5 gen a/c. This is the reason despite all of F-35s failings, they justify their price tag, rafales not so much. The irony of a rafale fanboy not understanding this difference is just incredible. Just tone deaf to the max.

Anyways, its diwali. eh.....no point in regurgitating same discussion again & again with rafale fanboys. I used to wonder why pakistanis would get so jubilant over Rafale narrative. These are not indian a/c, I dont understand why any indian would care about rafales. But i guess RationalGuy is type of audience that rafale narrative is meant for. Rafale ko apna devta bana liya hai.So, they get butt-hurt when someone insults rafales. I have been trashing Rafales from atleast 2022. They dont justify their price tag. Whining over it wont change that.

Genius where is the proof that a 70 million $ J10 shot down Rafale? Spamming rofl emotes doesn't make you smart.

 

[Speedster1]

The order quantity could very well explain what happened during those rounds of visits and meetings. MEA - let's not forget the attitude of those babus who run it. The less said about MoD folks, the better it will be. However, never forget the EU tends to remind you that we also have product X that is better than product Y. We can penalise you for not going for our products.

I looked up the SoKo deal for Meteors since my previous post. Turns out they've ordered a grand total of 100 missiles for KF-21! (perhaps they plan to order more, including for their F-35s, in due course)

But it's not that we lack leverage either. India is an existing customer for ASRAAM and MBDA has a JV with L&T which could've easily taken up license production of Meteor, if MoD had asked for it.

 

[GASOLINE_ON_FIRE]

Without knowing exactly what constraints the IAF was working under due to demand by the PM and the political leadership group, we can not analyse what happened or not in a definitive way. In fact we do not yet have any concrete information or numbers. Everything is speculation and at the end of the day if speculation is taken at face value you come away with a situation of garbage input generating garbage output.

We have heard multiple times that there was no condition attached by the Govt side, and yet after the first day terror camp strike, every press release and media report had this message that only terror camps were struck. No military asset was struck or harmed. You simply can not have both these constraints as true at the same time on the first night incidents. Either IAF were prevented from striking back right away on that night, or they were allowed to return fire (natural logic) which would defy the strict govt order of no hitting on pak mil asset.

For me, I think weapon choice played a part along with non return of fire. If you use AASM Hammer or spice [hammer specifically because new batch available and very suitable for the job], you have to get a bit close. Secondly, if the jets were instructed to ground target hitting only it would not be fitted with Meteor like long range aam weapon, just the dogfight MICA like aam for self protection because the mission is to bomb a ground target.

We also do not know status of Pak Ad grid that night, but given the sead op that followed later 2 days and neutralisation of one specific enemy AD near Lahore (?) it meant that AD unit definitely engaged our pack aka jet shot down likely from ground Ad, not random Pl15 launched from deep inside pak.

Without knowing exactly what constraints the IAF was working under due to demand by the PM and the political leadership group, we can not analyse what happened or not in a definitive way

I guess we are just going to ignore this!!!

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-air-force-chief-ap-singh-on-indias-success-of-operation-sindoor-clear-political-will-no-restrictions-9055014

We have heard multiple times that there was no condition attached by the Govt side, and yet after the first day terror camp strike, every press release and media report had this message that only terror camps were struck. No military asset was struck or harmed. You simply can not have both these constraints as true at the same time on the first night incidents. Either IAF were prevented from striking back right away on that night, or they were allowed to return fire (natural logic) which would defy the strict govt order of no hitting on pak mil asset.

Well...the inference is that not attacking Pak mil assets was the prerogative of the IAF planners. Modi stepped back & let the people do their job. You cound see how that went. Sharif then ran with the narrative as Modi was nowhere to be seen. With how pedestrian the press conferences were, you can see these are not very bright people.

In fact we do not yet have any concrete information or numbers

Yeah....people do!!! No one wants to say it openly. I know more about this topic but it would be retarded of me to spill it out on an open forum. It will not only create problems for me but also for the people from whom I get these small nuggets of info from.

जिस पायलट का राफेल गिरा था उसका नाम मुझे बताया गया था अगस्त में। जिस इंसान ने ये मुझे बताया वो राफेल पायलट का बैच मेट था। इससे ज्यादा नहीं बोलना चाहता मैं।
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You can asses how delusional the thinking at the top is when they think they can initiate a war according to their will & also end it at their will. But thats not how reality works. You can start a conflict but it never goes or ends how you want it to. Thats why wars are a gamble. Nothing productive comes out of it unless you are talking about big geographic/geopolitical changes. India & Pakistan are both sub-$3000 pci countries. both are nuclear. There is nothing to be gained by conflict here. Topi ji went into the conflict with hubris. Then lost the narrative. I dont think topi ji will ever publically reveal the losses. agar 56 inch ka seena hota toh losses may main hi reveal kar deta.

 

[Shan]

But it's not that we lack leverage either. India is an existing customer for ASRAAM and MBDA has a JV with L&T which could've easily taken up license production of Meteor, if MoD had asked for it.

Hmmm...there are two possibilities that I can think of on the fly, Speedster. Both of them are not pleasant. Let's leave this to the imagination of the wise folks here. Let's celebrate Diwali and get moving along. Gautam is posting some good things on other threads, I am just hitting like and letting dopamine wash over.

 

[Speedster1]

Hmmm...there are two possibilities that I can think of on the fly, Speedster. Both of them are not pleasant. Let's leave this to the imagination of the wise folks here. Let's celebrate Diwali and get moving along. Gautam is posting some good things on other threads, I am just hitting like and letting dopamine wash over.

Agree, let's not derail this thread any further.

 

[Subgradewalker]

Hmmm...there are two possibilities that I can think of on the fly, Speedster. Both of them are not pleasant. Let's leave this to the imagination of the wise folks here. Let's celebrate Diwali and get moving along. Gautam is posting some good things on other threads, I am just hitting like and letting dopamine wash over.

Happy diwali bro.. i bursted firecracker after 4-5 years.. to dedicate it to the uneducated with educated tag folks

 

[RationalGuy]

oooooh.......a butt-hurt rafale fanboy. Did I hurt your fee-fees by insulting Rafales????
Are we still having these discussions over whether rafales are good or bad in the month of october '25?? Incredible!!! These guys went all silent when their $300 mil+ messiah got smacked out the air by a $70 mil J10.

A guy accusing others of being overly emotional cant compute the rational conclusion to be taken when a $300mil+ gold plated Rafale was smacked out of the sky by a $70 mil chinese tin can. Let me spell it out for you, the differences in survivability of 2 non-stealth 4th gen a/c is marginal. Now you can burn however much money you want on these a/c, they will not give you superiority.

Internet is an amazing place!!! A person calling himself "RationalGuy" cant understand the basic priciple - war is not won through uber expensive wonder-weapons. Its won by good enough weapons in good enough quantities. Tactics & logistics are more important. This was the whole discussion in may. Indranil made the same point. Where the fuk were you then??? I'm not regurgitating that whole discussion again. You can go through my acc to see the points I made then.


You can see the single digit braincells of Rafale fanboys trying to connect completely different things. Not sure from where babus came into the discussion, but carry on!!!


Incredible!!!! Just incredible!!!
The basic problem with rafale is its non-stealth airframe. The main argument against rafales is that it doesn't make sense to buy such an uber expensive non-stealth a/c in 2025. I'm not sure how rafales will rectify this in their next combat operation??? Will it grow extra engines/hardpoints/wings to justify its $300 mil+ price tag. Will they shed their skin like snakes & magically have stealth shaping next time around????

And to compare Rafales to F-35s is just incredible. F-35s are cheaper than Rafales & their stealth shaping gives them considerable advantage over other 4.5 gen a/c. This is the reason despite all of F-35s failings, they justify their price tag, rafales not so much. The irony of a rafale fanboy not understanding this difference is just incredible. Just tone deaf to the max.

Anyways, its diwali. eh.....no point in regurgitating same discussion again & again with rafale fanboys. I used to wonder why pakistanis would get so jubilant over Rafale narrative. These are not indian a/c, I dont understand why any indian would care about rafales. But i guess RationalGuy is type of audience that rafale narrative is meant for. Rafale ko apna devta bana liya hai.So, they get butt-hurt when someone insults rafales. I have been trashing Rafales from atleast 2022. They dont justify their price tag. Whining over it wont change that.

Must feel bad having 2 assholes, the second one being you're nasty little mouth with spews out a shits worth of word salad like this which no one cares to read.

I don't give a rats *censored* about Rafale except for the fact that it is part of the IAF and its downing has to with what the situation was in the air at the time. If it were up to me, we would've told the French to *censored* off and would've rather had Tejas Mk2 armed with Astra Mk2 ERs facing the PAF. But unfortunately the GOI would rather spend billions to buy foreign aircraft rather than muster the guts to reform HAL DRDO and spend the same money on indigenous platforms. It is what it is.

Rafale has superior EW and radar than Su 30 MKI, yet it was shot down. This perhaps says more about the state of the ISR during 7th of May rather than the aircraft itself. The sole reason why Indians give 2 f*cks about the Rafale is because it's a weapon fielded by the IAF and flown by Indian airmen and airwomen. It's not some random *censored*ing jet in some third country's air force. If you had 2 braincells instead of a dog shit filled ape sized garbage can of a brain, perhaps you would realize this fact.

Hmmm...there are two possibilities that I can think of on the fly, Speedster. Both of them are not pleasant. Let's leave this to the imagination of the wise folks here. Let's celebrate Diwali and get moving along. Gautam is posting some good things on other threads, I am just hitting like and letting dopamine wash over.

What are those possibilities?

Genius where is the proof that a 70 million $ J10 shot down Rafale? Spamming rofl emotes doesn't make you smart.

PL15 likely shot down a Rafale whether it was fired from JF17 or J10C is uncertain.

 

[Hydra]

Must feel bad having 2 assholes, the second one being you're nasty little mouth with spews out a shits worth of word salad like this which no one cares to read.

I don't give a rats *censored* about Rafale except for the fact that it is part of the IAF and its downing has to with what the situation was in the air at the time. If it were up to me, we would've told the French to *censored* off and would've rather had Tejas Mk2 armed with Astra Mk2 ERs facing the PAF. But unfortunately the GOI would rather spend billions to buy foreign aircraft rather than muster the guts to reform HAL DRDO and spend the same money on indigenous platforms. It is what it is.

Rafale has superior EW and radar than Su 30 MKI, yet it was shot down. This perhaps says more about the state of the ISR during 7th of May rather than the aircraft itself. The sole reason why Indians give 2 f*cks about the Rafale is because it's a weapon fielded by the IAF and flown by Indian airmen and airwomen. It's not some random *censored*ing jet in some third country's air force. If you had 2 braincells instead of a dog shit filled ape sized garbage can of a brain, perhaps you would realize this fact.

What are those possibilities?

PL15 likely shot down a Rafale whether it was fired from JF17 or J10C is uncertain.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1920076308282769452