Arjun Main Battle Tank (Mk-1 & Mk-2)

Saaho

Senior member
Dec 27, 2019
1,547
1,158
Canada
If some. One wants to know what ofb is doing, go through the indian field gun. 105 mm howitzer, a ww2 British design. Ofb didn't improve anything on it, it still weighs more than 3.5 tonnes. 50+ year old design. With new procurement policy, our military gonna suffer a lot, they will firced to induct crappy items from ofb.
Atmanirbhar for Atmahatya.

HAL, OFB etc are same as what BSNL is in telecom service space or what ITI is in telecom production space.
 
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Hydra

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May 19, 2020
1,317
625
Mumbai
Atmanirbhar for Atmahatya.

HAL, OFB etc are same as what BSNL is in telecom service space or what ITI is in telecom production space.
I will not keep ofb along with HAL & BSNL. HAL & BSNL are public sector companies, they are doing hundred times better than ofb in all areas. Ofb is not even ready to accept the failure in quality aspects,they sticks with funda of user messed up the products, I don't think HAL will ever do that.
Again, I do agree that atma nirbhan may ent up as athmahathya for our national security.
 

raghu1974

Member
Nov 19, 2020
117
90
Phoenix, AZ USA
I will not keep ofb along with HAL & BSNL. HAL & BSNL are public sector companies, they are doing hundred times better than ofb in all areas. Ofb is not even ready to accept the failure in quality aspects,they sticks with funda of user messed up the products, I don't think HAL will ever do that.
Again, I do agree that atma nirbhan may ent up as athmahathya for our national security.
If OFB doesn't mend its ways, then Indian government should freeze all fresh hiring in OFB. Govt should give orders for ammunition to private players (even if it were to be of small quantities) and ask OFB to compete and earn its business or loose out. Announce VRS to anyone who is 50 years or older across OFB and decrease the overall dependency of OFB. Slowly and steadily, India should move away from these Public sector enterprises and all of them needs to be privatized.
 
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AbRaj

Well-Known member
Dec 6, 2017
1,171
922
Republic of Wadiya
I will not keep ofb along with HAL & BSNL. HAL & BSNL are public sector companies, they are doing hundred times better than ofb in all areas. Ofb is not even ready to accept the failure in quality aspects,they sticks with funda of user messed up the products, I don't think HAL will ever do that.
Again, I do agree that atma nirbhan may ent up as athmahathya for our national security.
Its Kolkata Culture. Just listen to Momota begum as an example
 

raghu1974

Member
Nov 19, 2020
117
90
Phoenix, AZ USA
This endless game needs to end somewhere and it better be now. Army has to either accept it or just reject it and move on. If they reject it, then there is a need for a White Paper to be written and published so that such crimes are not committed again. Indian Army's endless lookout for Unicorn in every domestically designed / manufactured defense equipment has to stop. IA should be told that their wheeling and dealing on Russian Tanks stops here.

There should and will be a product life cycle and every iteration of the product should have enhancements with a guarantee that all older tranches can be upgraded to the final version of the product that was agreed upon. This will help Army and Government in many ways. Army will get a steady stream of weapon systems and need not go for emergency (jacked up prices) purchases. The government will also be able to manage its finances well and be able to afford the systems the forces need.

India is at the verge of attaining self reliance in most of the fields, if not all. Unless the Government, DRDO and Armed forces are in this journey together, we will still be dependent on Imports for decades to come.
 
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jetray

Well-Known member
Mar 15, 2018
1,102
795
India
This endless game needs to end somewhere and it better be now. Army has to either accept it or just reject it and move on. If they reject it, then there is a need for a White Paper to be written and published so that such crimes are not committed again. Indian Army's endless lookout for Unicorn in every domestically designed / manufactured defense equipment has to stop. IA should be told that their wheeling and dealing on Russian Tanks stops here.

There should and will be a product life cycle and every iteration of the product should have enhancements with a guarantee that all older tranches can be upgraded to the final version of the product that was agreed upon. This will help Army and Government in many ways. Army will get a steady stream of weapon systems and need not go for emergency (jacked up prices) purchases. The government will also be able to manage its finances well and be able to afford the systems the forces need.

India is at the verge of attaining self reliance in most of the fields, if not all. Unless the Government, DRDO and Armed forces are in this journey together, we will still be dependent on Imports for decades to come.
DRDO and Indian army are made for each other, its like bringing two south poles of a magnet together. If army does not come around with realistic rfp's then they should simply avoid them and try to market the product outside the country to recoup the costs. The amount we spend on importing foreign stuff can be well spent on salaries and pension of personnel.
 
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AbRaj

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Dec 6, 2017
1,171
922
Republic of Wadiya
DRDO and Indian army are made for each other, its like bringing two south poles of a magnet together. If army does not come around with realistic rfp's then they should simply avoid them and try to market the product outside the country to recoup the costs. The amount we spend on importing foreign stuff can be well spent on salaries and pension of personnel.
Yeah, countries are literally dying to buy ofb ammo like barrel busting shells and oil spraying INSAS. Assholes buy CBU/SKDs from AL and Tata, paste their own logo and sell to army at 2.5 X the price, Army spend when purchases directly from OEMs.
 

jetray

Well-Known member
Mar 15, 2018
1,102
795
India
Yeah, countries are literally dying to buy ofb ammo like barrel busting shells and oil spraying INSAS. Assholes buy CBU/SKDs from AL and Tata, paste their own logo and sell to army at 2.5 X the price, Army spend when purchases directly from OEMs.
Its not just OFB which manufactures such faulty stuff, even ammo imported from russia during kargil war had same issue. Frankly we do not need DRDO or OFB working on low tech stuff like dumb artillery ammo or guns which private sector can do that. We should ask them to export goods simply bcos they cannot pull their shenanigans of pressure tactics on other countries to buy their goods. The strikes and lockouts game cannot be played against them. Either they sell or perish.
 

AbRaj

Well-Known member
Dec 6, 2017
1,171
922
Republic of Wadiya
Its not just OFB which manufactures such faulty stuff, even ammo imported from russia during kargil war had same issue. Frankly we do not need DRDO or OFB working on low tech stuff like dumb artillery ammo or guns which private sector can do that. We should ask them to export goods simply bcos they cannot pull their shenanigans of pressure tactics on other countries to buy their goods. The strikes and lockouts game cannot be played against them. Either they sell or perish.
Problem is there are hundreds of competent Companies out there waiting to grab every opportunity. why should anybody want to buy Indian crap at inflated prices when very good stuff are available either domestically or in International market.

Indian Armed Forces the only Captive buyers of these OFB leeches and they are sucking blood of them. just check prices of clothing supplied by OFB to the IA. even a fuking plastic mug is priced at 129 Rs. can you believe that.
 
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Ashwin

Agent_47
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
4,389
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Bangalore

Army to move Defence Ministry for 118 Arjun Mk-1A tanks

It has 14 major upgrades over the Mk1 variant

After delays, the process for procurement of 118 indigenous Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun Mk-1A has commenced, according to an Army source. The cost as obtained from the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF), Avadi, is ₹8,956.59 crore.
“The file is currently with the Deputy Chief of Army Staff and will be shortly sent to Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) to put up the case. The case is planned to be fielded before the Defence Procurement Board (DPB) and the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) in January 2021,” the source said. Issues with Arjun Mk1 ammunition, spares and repairs had also been resolved and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) had set up an Arjun hub in Jaisalmer for spares and support, the source stated.
Stating that the Arjun Mk-1A would be without missile firing capability and would be incorporated as and when the development was complete, the source said that at the Arjun hub in Jaisalmer, 248 rotables had been deposited.
The Arjun Mk-1A has 14 major upgrades over the Mk1 variant, which were formulated and approved in October 2018. Subsequently, limited user validation trials were carried out on all the upgrades. Seven meetings were held involving various stakeholders to resolve all issues with respect to Arjun Mk-1A between October 2019 and July 2020. Following this, the Statement of Case with comments from all stakeholders was forwarded to the Deputy Chief of Army Staff — Capability Development and Sustenance, it has been learnt.

Tackling obsolescence

The Army has inducted two regiments of Arjun Mk1 between 2005 and 2010. Electronics would get obsolescent over 10-15 years and they needed to be constantly replaced, a defence official said. To address this, DRDO is working on obsolescence management of Arjun MBT and indigenisation of various assemblies and sub-assemblies, including Commander’s Panoramic Sight (CPS) and Gunner’s Main Sight (GMS) that are under indigenous development.
The indigenous CPS underwent successful trials earlier this month at the Pokhran field firing range and it was also demonstrated to the Deputy Chief of Army. There would be some summer trials, the official said. The indigenous GMS was expected to be integrated by March 2021 and then go for summer trials, the official said.
Once the indigenous CPS and advanced GMS were incorporated, the indigenous content of MBT Arjun Mk-1A would increase from 41% to 54.3% during production, two officials independently stated.
On the process and timeline of the project, the official explained that once DAC approved the case, the Army would place indent with the HVF, Avadi. “That is also expected to happen before March 31, 2021. HVF will then build the first five tanks in 30 months which are called ‘First of Production Model’,” the official stated.
These five tanks will be put through General Service Quality Requirement (GSQR) evaluation by the Army and will accord Bulk Production Clearance (BPC) if found satisfactory. Once BPC was given, production would be done as per an agreed schedule, the official said.
Observing that if subsequently more numbers were ordered beyond 118, it would immensely benefit the domestic industry and the ‘Make in India’ effort, the official added that the indigenisation content could also progressively go to 70% with more numbers.

Missile firing trials

The advanced GMS of the Arjun Mk-1A had built-in laser target designator and the tank was customised for missile firing, a second official said. The missile is under development at the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), Pune, and trials are under way. Missile firing is under way at the ARDE. “A few more trials are required,” the official stated.
To incorporate this capability on the existing Arjun Mk1 tanks, the DRDO had developed an external laser target designator, which could be retrofitted on the Mk1s in service, the official added.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
13,516
9,577
Mumbai

Army to move Defence Ministry for 118 Arjun Mk-1A tanks

It has 14 major upgrades over the Mk1 variant

After delays, the process for procurement of 118 indigenous Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun Mk-1A has commenced, according to an Army source. The cost as obtained from the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF), Avadi, is ₹8,956.59 crore.
“The file is currently with the Deputy Chief of Army Staff and will be shortly sent to Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) to put up the case. The case is planned to be fielded before the Defence Procurement Board (DPB) and the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) in January 2021,” the source said. Issues with Arjun Mk1 ammunition, spares and repairs had also been resolved and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) had set up an Arjun hub in Jaisalmer for spares and support, the source stated.
Stating that the Arjun Mk-1A would be without missile firing capability and would be incorporated as and when the development was complete, the source said that at the Arjun hub in Jaisalmer, 248 rotables had been deposited.
The Arjun Mk-1A has 14 major upgrades over the Mk1 variant, which were formulated and approved in October 2018. Subsequently, limited user validation trials were carried out on all the upgrades. Seven meetings were held involving various stakeholders to resolve all issues with respect to Arjun Mk-1A between October 2019 and July 2020. Following this, the Statement of Case with comments from all stakeholders was forwarded to the Deputy Chief of Army Staff — Capability Development and Sustenance, it has been learnt.

Tackling obsolescence

The Army has inducted two regiments of Arjun Mk1 between 2005 and 2010. Electronics would get obsolescent over 10-15 years and they needed to be constantly replaced, a defence official said. To address this, DRDO is working on obsolescence management of Arjun MBT and indigenisation of various assemblies and sub-assemblies, including Commander’s Panoramic Sight (CPS) and Gunner’s Main Sight (GMS) that are under indigenous development.
The indigenous CPS underwent successful trials earlier this month at the Pokhran field firing range and it was also demonstrated to the Deputy Chief of Army. There would be some summer trials, the official said. The indigenous GMS was expected to be integrated by March 2021 and then go for summer trials, the official said.
Once the indigenous CPS and advanced GMS were incorporated, the indigenous content of MBT Arjun Mk-1A would increase from 41% to 54.3% during production, two officials independently stated.
On the process and timeline of the project, the official explained that once DAC approved the case, the Army would place indent with the HVF, Avadi. “That is also expected to happen before March 31, 2021. HVF will then build the first five tanks in 30 months which are called ‘First of Production Model’,” the official stated.
These five tanks will be put through General Service Quality Requirement (GSQR) evaluation by the Army and will accord Bulk Production Clearance (BPC) if found satisfactory. Once BPC was given, production would be done as per an agreed schedule, the official said.
Observing that if subsequently more numbers were ordered beyond 118, it would immensely benefit the domestic industry and the ‘Make in India’ effort, the official added that the indigenisation content could also progressively go to 70% with more numbers.

Missile firing trials

The advanced GMS of the Arjun Mk-1A had built-in laser target designator and the tank was customised for missile firing, a second official said. The missile is under development at the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), Pune, and trials are under way. Missile firing is under way at the ARDE. “A few more trials are required,” the official stated.
To incorporate this capability on the existing Arjun Mk1 tanks, the DRDO had developed an external laser target designator, which could be retrofitted on the Mk1s in service, the official added.
5 tanks in 30 months beginning Apr 2021??? This translates to inducting the Mk1a's right thru 2020's. Where's the scope for enhanced orders reaching 500 nos then? By the end of this decade we'd have to tackle the issue of the NGMBT too. Rather we'd have to have a running prototype on the verge of LSP & we'd still be inducting the Mk1a's then.
 

raghu1974

Member
Nov 19, 2020
117
90
Phoenix, AZ USA
5 tanks in 30 months beginning Apr 2021??? This translates to inducting the Mk1a's right thru 2020's. Where's the scope for enhanced orders reaching 500 nos then? By the end of this decade we'd have to tackle the issue of the NGMBT too. Rather we'd have to have a running prototype on the verge of LSP & we'd still be inducting the Mk1a's then.
That is the price you pay when you don't keep the production line idle for more than 5 years. The HVF has to get the production ecosystem back to life before you get the production rate to an acceptable level. Hopefully post 2024, the factory should deliver 24 tanks every year. This works well with the funding constraints we have. As the CDS said, we need to order them in batches and hopefully further refinements are done to the Mk1A, for another order of around 500 tanks in the 2nd half of this decade.
 

zapper

Well-Known member
Oct 10, 2019
353
254
US

Army to move Defence Ministry for 118 Arjun Mk-1A tanks

It has 14 major upgrades over the Mk1 variant

After delays, the process for procurement of 118 indigenous Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun Mk-1A has commenced, according to an Army source. The cost as obtained from the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF), Avadi, is ₹8,956.59 crore.
“The file is currently with the Deputy Chief of Army Staff and will be shortly sent to Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) to put up the case. The case is planned to be fielded before the Defence Procurement Board (DPB) and the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) in January 2021,” the source said. Issues with Arjun Mk1 ammunition, spares and repairs had also been resolved and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) had set up an Arjun hub in Jaisalmer for spares and support, the source stated.
Stating that the Arjun Mk-1A would be without missile firing capability and would be incorporated as and when the development was complete, the source said that at the Arjun hub in Jaisalmer, 248 rotables had been deposited.
The Arjun Mk-1A has 14 major upgrades over the Mk1 variant, which were formulated and approved in October 2018. Subsequently, limited user validation trials were carried out on all the upgrades. Seven meetings were held involving various stakeholders to resolve all issues with respect to Arjun Mk-1A between October 2019 and July 2020. Following this, the Statement of Case with comments from all stakeholders was forwarded to the Deputy Chief of Army Staff — Capability Development and Sustenance, it has been learnt.

Tackling obsolescence

The Army has inducted two regiments of Arjun Mk1 between 2005 and 2010. Electronics would get obsolescent over 10-15 years and they needed to be constantly replaced, a defence official said. To address this, DRDO is working on obsolescence management of Arjun MBT and indigenisation of various assemblies and sub-assemblies, including Commander’s Panoramic Sight (CPS) and Gunner’s Main Sight (GMS) that are under indigenous development.
The indigenous CPS underwent successful trials earlier this month at the Pokhran field firing range and it was also demonstrated to the Deputy Chief of Army. There would be some summer trials, the official said. The indigenous GMS was expected to be integrated by March 2021 and then go for summer trials, the official said.
Once the indigenous CPS and advanced GMS were incorporated, the indigenous content of MBT Arjun Mk-1A would increase from 41% to 54.3% during production, two officials independently stated.
On the process and timeline of the project, the official explained that once DAC approved the case, the Army would place indent with the HVF, Avadi. “That is also expected to happen before March 31, 2021. HVF will then build the first five tanks in 30 months which are called ‘First of Production Model’,” the official stated.
These five tanks will be put through General Service Quality Requirement (GSQR) evaluation by the Army and will accord Bulk Production Clearance (BPC) if found satisfactory. Once BPC was given, production would be done as per an agreed schedule, the official said.
Observing that if subsequently more numbers were ordered beyond 118, it would immensely benefit the domestic industry and the ‘Make in India’ effort, the official added that the indigenisation content could also progressively go to 70% with more numbers.

Missile firing trials

The advanced GMS of the Arjun Mk-1A had built-in laser target designator and the tank was customised for missile firing, a second official said. The missile is under development at the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), Pune, and trials are under way. Missile firing is under way at the ARDE. “A few more trials are required,” the official stated.
To incorporate this capability on the existing Arjun Mk1 tanks, the DRDO had developed an external laser target designator, which could be retrofitted on the Mk1s in service, the official added.
I don't understand why 118 tanks cost over $1bn...it still doesn't make sense if this includes ammo and maintenance contracts