Arjun Main Battle Tank (Mk-1 & Mk-2)

Ashwin

Agent_47
Staff member
Administrator
Nov 30, 2017
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Difference between OFB and pvt player screw giri is that one work for govt other work for dalal's with vested interest.
And what does OFB do? Can you name one OFB made product without foreign or DRDO involvement which is world-class?

Indian PSU's invented the term 'screw giri'.

Where is the R&D ?
Im asking you the same. Decades of monopoly and where is the R&D ? Even today its sitting on orders around $8+ billion. Can't even make a decent assault rifle.

For the Private industry, the sector is only just opening up. Not a single big tender was allotted to them with all the might of OFB unions. Like cockroaches, they live on.

Army won't buy fantasy castle. dalal's can try hard though.
They have to buy crappy and defective items from the OFB. Like the ammunition which kills more indian troops than anyone else in peacetime.

Your habit of dishing out socialist verbatim on every subject is getting old.
 

Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
822
617
Delhi
Difference between OFB and pvt player screw giri is that one work for govt other work for dalal's with vested interest.
i never seen you crying about debt ridden pvt sector which is asking for govt bailout and loan moratorium one day after another. while sitting on huge pile of cash.
What has pvt sector build so far on there own ? Where is the R&D ? There is none period.
Don't go on with alpha defence and tonbo imaging , none of there tech is Indian in origin.
Army won't buy fantasy castle. dalal's can try hard though.
What technology has ofb produced that is indian in origin. They make Russian bmp 2's, Belgian fal's, American 5.56 mm ammo. What has ofb come up with which is original and other countries are dying to get. Technology cannot be created out of thin air. Cannons came into the subcontinent due to the Mughals. Guns were introduced by the portuguese. You cannot produce things yourself until you don't have some amount of foreign input or technology. The thinking you propagate is the reason why India is such a shithole. And stupid people have been eating up this propaganda for the last 70 years. That's why aatmanirbhar bharat will always remain an election slogan nothing else. You have to create an ecosystem then only you can create technology...
 

Nikhil

nik141993
Dec 1, 2017
483
284
India
What about l&t and the k9 thunder deal ?
They delivered the order way before schedule then we have hvf Avadi which couldn't even finish the initial order of t-90s. You expect me to take the PSU's seriously after that.
What about L&T and K 9 ? they got the deal. they did screw giri and they got the money ,some very interesting desh bhakt shareholders also got rich in the process.
I think now they can come up with state of the art technology on there own without govt or foreign help , after all they are such a R&D power house.
So plz stop asking for govt help.
What technology has ofb produced that is indian in origin. They make Russian bmp 2's, Belgian fal's, American 5.56 mm ammo. What has ofb come up with which is original and other countries are dying to get. Technology cannot be created out of thin air. Cannons came into the subcontinent due to the Mughals. Guns were introduced by the portuguese. You cannot produce things yourself until you don't have some amount of foreign input or technology. The thinking you propagate is the reason why India is such a shithole. And stupid people have been eating up this propaganda for the last 70 years. That's why aatmanirbhar bharat will always remain an election slogan nothing else. You have to create an ecosystem then only you can create technology...
if licensing or screw giri is the only criteria, than Contract will and should go to state enterprises.
 
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Lolwa

Well-Known member
Feb 6, 2020
822
617
Delhi
What about L&T and K 9 ? they got the deal. they did screw giri and they got the money ,some very interesting desh bhakt shareholders also got rich in the process.
I think now they can come up with state of the art technology on there own without govt or foreign help , after all they are such a R&D power house.
So plz stop asking for govt help.

if licensing or screw giri is the only criteria, than Contract will and should go to state enterprises.
So that they can delay the order and then protest risking National security. No thank you the armed forces have already suffered enough because of incompetent state enterprises..
 
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suryakiran

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
747
886
Bangalore
The answer is yes. You need a govt issued license to make weapons.
Not really. Let's say you want to do R&D on metallurgy to make the barrel of a gun. You do not need any license for the same. IF, one had done the R&D and got the IPR for the same, you could have offered it to the government, which could then either produce at OFB and pay royalty or issue a license for the same. And please, the private players are way better at handling the government than any of the jokers at OFB.

The arguement is less about production and more about R&D. R&D and intellectual input could have got atleast royalty. But our private companies chose neither.
 

Ankit Kumar

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
2,311
2,103
Bangalore
Just give level playing field so that it's the armed forces which benefit.

Cancel the AK203 MoU/JV, if the Army needs 7.62x39 Assault Rifle , then give everyone a chance including OFB.

And stop messing with modernization/procurement programs of Armed forces so that incompetent hands find employment and pensions.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
9,748
7,382
India
Not really. Let's say you want to do R&D on metallurgy to make the barrel of a gun. You do not need any license for the same. IF, one had done the R&D and got the IPR for the same, you could have offered it to the government, which could then either produce at OFB and pay royalty or issue a license for the same. And please, the private players are way better at handling the government than any of the jokers at OFB.

The arguement is less about production and more about R&D. R&D and intellectual input could have got atleast royalty. But our private companies chose neither.

Yeah, but the metal for the barrel of a gun is not classified as a weapon after all. It needs to be a weapon.

Private players can't get into R&D in the hopes of selling their products to a manufacturer. OFB has a habit of not dealing with private players without wads of cash exchanging hands, which puts the private player at the risk of blacklisting and jail time.

The only real way to get private players in is to give them direct access to the customer. And this process began only afte Modi came to power. And it's still ongoing, so let's see where it takes us. OFB has already started losing business, like the Pinaka rockets.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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Just give level playing field so that it's the armed forces which benefit.

Cancel the AK203 MoU/JV, if the Army needs 7.62x39 Assault Rifle , then give everyone a chance including OFB.

And stop messing with modernization/procurement programs of Armed forces so that incompetent hands find employment and pensions.

The AK-203 was chosen because it was cheap and it's a very good rifle in the first place. Plus the Russians are willing to hand over 100% of the ToT. You won't get a better deal elsewhere. Plus the rifles will be built through a JV, and the Russians will be involved in the quality process.

Anyway, there is a further requirement of over 200,000 rifles that the private sector can build. Then there's another for 350,000 carbines. That's 2 rifle tenders going to the private sector already.
 

Ankit Kumar

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
2,311
2,103
Bangalore
The AK-203 was chosen because it was cheap and it's a very good rifle in the first place. Plus the Russians are willing to hand over 100% of the ToT. You won't get a better deal elsewhere. Plus the rifles will be built through a JV, and the Russians will be involved in the quality process.

Anyway, there is a further requirement of over 200,000 rifles that the private sector can build. Then there's another for 350,000 carbines. That's 2 rifle tenders going to the private sector already.
Cheap? The news is contrary stating inflated costs on the rifles being asked by OFB and that being the primary reason why the deal hasn't been finalized yet.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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Cheap? The news is contrary stating inflated costs on the rifles being asked by OFB and that being the primary reason why the deal hasn't been finalized yet.

It definitely is cheap.

 
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Hydra

Well-Known member
May 19, 2020
1,317
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Mumbai
Kickbacks in nothing but horse s**t. Here's a thing Buddy baba or kaka kalani or adani can claim whatever they want , in the end you have to deliver a product which is totally indian. If screw giri all they can do than sorry contract will go to state or govt enterprise or the main supplier abroad directly.
Two days back IN cancelled the order which given to Reliance Defense, reason is they didn't deliver a single patrol vessel so far. Thats the level of competency we have.

If some. One wants to know what ofb is doing, go through the indian field gun. 105 mm howitzer, a ww2 British design. Ofb didn't improve anything on it, it still weighs more than 3.5 tonnes. 50+ year old design. With new procurement policy, our military gonna suffer a lot, they will firced to induct crappy items from ofb.
 
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Ankit Kumar

Senior member
Nov 30, 2017
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Bangalore
It definitely is cheap.

We bought 72000 SIG716s for around 1000 dollars per gun.

Price anything around that should be acceptable.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
9,748
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But that's only for 72000 rifles, for 720000+ rifles those costs spread out over 10 times larger numbers should be negligible.

Cost of ToT, production and royalty will still be really high.

Also I think the SIG716 already has achieved economies of scale, so the cost won't be very different no matter how many more are made.
 
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suryakiran

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
747
886
Bangalore
Two days back IN cancelled the order which given to Reliance Defense, reason is they didn't deliver a single patrol vessel so far. Thats the level of competency we have.

It will be interesting to read what happened to the turbines. While, the blame is not removed from the private player for his incompetence in finances, it has less to do with the capability of the shipyard per se.