ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

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Fitting Ramjet missiles is a challenge bcoz of their long intakes, it becomes difficult to stagger them.
There is an early render by artist Kuntal Biswas of 2 Astr-3 SFDR /bay, total 4 AAMs, but pic is angled, the bay is short with big gap in between.
View attachment 38970

He has also made multiple CADs of Astr-3 SFDR BUT with different fin & ramjet intake dimensions.

View attachment 38971

The 3rd one is the only one with bottom view so if we resize it with IWB then still it will be a TIGHT UNSAFE fit of 3 staggered AAMs/bay.
And if we consider 3 staggered Meteors (AAM CAD by artist "AkelaFreedom") then although it is 6" shorter but its intakes & fins seem to be wider & overflows out of bay.

View attachment 38972

Editing in MS Paint, Photoshop, etc can produce inaccurate errors.
It is best accurate if the artists themselves produce this kind of images. But most of them don't.

If the Ramjet intake is shortened then 6 Astr-3 SFDR AAMs might fit relatively better. But there could be military safety specs which may or may not allow this.
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We see Akash-1 SAM also has Ramjets which don't extend all the way backwards.
1735380262342.png


The intake fairing in Meteor is long bcoz it houses some electronics, fin actuators. Same could be with Astr-3 SFDR. But if the AAM body can be adjusted then it can favor AMCA.
1735380272810.jpeg
 
News channels & elsewhere people are talking abot MRFA & only 2 final candidates - Su-57 Vs F-35.
While F-35 would be the most tempting honey trap so far, the Su-57 is under fire too not seen as proper full 5gen stealth. There are many things which can be learnt from current 5gen jets. Some of us are also concerned that it may impact AMCA program. The following is a brief comparison. The "possible" features have to be TIMELY implemented expecially when global tech evolution is at 6gen R&D level.
View attachment 39035
We ain't getting production of either. It's a g2g deal. Maybe we could produce su-57 "mki" but not for the f-35.
 
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We ain't getting production of either. It's a g2g deal. Maybe we could produce su-57 "mki" but not for the f-35.
I'm praying daily 2 times that we should not get F-35 🙏📿:LOL: And Su-57 also not upto the mark.
So we should fast track AMCA & implement all the "possible" features in the table which will make it better than J-35, Kaan, KF-21.
 
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So we should fast track AMCA & implement all the "possible" features in the table which will make it better than J-35, Kaan, KF-21.

India would require to develop AI based intelligent manufacturing and high end solution for engine optimization using AI.

AI based swarm tech , smart sensors , big data intelligence theory, autonomous unmanned system support platforms and many more. It is better to prepare AMCA as 6.5 gen fighter than 5th Gen. There is no much time. Only then India could end up close to 5+ Gen fighter if not fully 6th gen.

As per Chinese policy on AI, they will be operational on the above mentioned tech to a great extent by between 2025-2027
 
If the Ramjet intake is shortened then 6 Astr-3 SFDR AAMs might fit relatively better. But there could be military safety specs which may or may not allow this.

Playing with dimension means playing with center of mass and stability of a missile while launching. It may fall back into bay or fly sideways, etc etc and disorient itself while dropping,and cause accident. More over new launch softwares with new data links are required for that weapons need to be modified as well.

For example Link 16 is used in a lot of 4th Gen fighters you can't install it in 5th gen fighter and still call it a 5th gen fighter. Link 16 needs to be upgraded at par with MADL and then installed due to it's resistance capabilities against EW.
 
We ain't getting production of either. It's a g2g deal. Maybe we could produce su-57 "mki" but not for the f-35.

If you can't get 5th gen fighter on time, then get the technology to counter it to fill the gap. What is there in arsenal similar to Russian Rezonans-NE, Nebo M or that chinese DWL002?
 
India would require to develop AI based intelligent manufacturing and high end solution for engine optimization using AI.
AI based swarm tech , smart sensors , big data intelligence theory, autonomous unmanned system support platforms and many more. It is better to prepare AMCA as 6.5 gen fighter than 5th Gen. There is no much time. Only then India could end up close to 5+ Gen fighter if not fully 6th gen.
As per Chinese policy on AI, they will be operational on the above mentioned tech to a great extent by between 2025-2027
Since the year 2000, may be late 1990s, Ai was introduced in Engineering college syllabus. So some of those students today after 2+ decades as engineers are working somewhere on AI, mostly in private firms, which we see in cellphones & otherconsumer electronics.
Our DoD units may also be working on AI but i'm not tracking that progress.
W.r.t. AMCA or any combat jet in general, AI can be a Co-pilot/WSO, handle drones, etc. Future UCAV has to be primarily AI, not RC (Remote Controlled), with option to take over it remotely if required.

Playing with dimension means playing with center of mass and stability of a missile while launching. It may fall back into bay or fly sideways, etc etc and disorient itself while dropping,and cause accident. More over new launch softwares with new data links are required for that weapons need to be modified as well.
For example Link 16 is used in a lot of 4th Gen fighters you can't install it in 5th gen fighter and still call it a 5th gen fighter. Link 16 needs to be upgraded at par with MADL and then installed due to it's resistance capabilities against EW.
That's a genuine technical observation but not a problem. Such things like weapon separation obviously have to be simulated, computed, tested.
But globally, IWB has not new thing. The earliest jet i know with AAMs with IWB is F-102 Delta Daggaer in 1950s.
The documentaries made since then show the ground & aerial tests. (AIR but AERial, not AIReal or AIRial :LOL:)
If we see YT videos of weapons separation like that of AIM-120 AMRAAM then we can notice that
- the ejectors literally punch out the AAMs away from jet
- the the fins of AAMs immediately start moving to control & stabilize the separation to avoid collision.
- the MTOW is roughly double the empty weigth, so the digital FCS takes care of inertial changes during weapons release.
- So it is a collective effort b/w weapon & aircraft, H/w & S/w, the jet can launch in most angles & orientations. There are some limitations of roll, yaw & pitch.

F-22:





F-35:





Our DoD has also done similar tests on ground & computers. The following are some old pics:

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So the AMCA prototype will also conduct such ground & flight tests. But in short, 6 AAMs can be easily done on a medium jet. F-35 & J-35 will do it.
 
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If the Ramjet intake is shortened then 6 Astr-3 SFDR AAMs might fit relatively better. But there could be military safety specs which may or may not allow this.
View attachment 39229

We see Akash-1 SAM also has Ramjets which don't extend all the way backwards.
View attachment 39231

The intake fairing in Meteor is long bcoz it houses some electronics, fin actuators. Same could be with Astr-3 SFDR. But if the AAM body can be adjusted then it can favor AMCA.
View attachment 39232

Continuing on this agenda of internal load, 2 days back someone shared PL-15E AAM with folding fins from Zhuai airshow. AFAIK big/heavy missile do have folding fins but a medium missile is yet to be seen with AIM-120 AMRAAM, Meteor, etc. R-77 have folding grid fins.

1735555090928.png


Now there is no CAD of Meteor, Astr-3 SFDR with folding fins & i can't use PL-15E to depict in AMCA :crazy:
So i'm just clipping the fins in SFDR pic. IDK the safety gap spec but this looks like a safe fit, that too w/o staggering.

1735555156522.png


And i had already shown that 6 staggered AAMs of short fin version of Astr-2 could easily fit. So if we use folding fin version of it now then total 8 staggered AAMs or 16 SAAW bombs could fit. The ejectors shoud be firm & free from vibrations.

1735555217174.jpeg


If this config is considered unsafe then in worst case 6 AAMs or 12 SAAW bombs can fit easily.
 
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Continuing on this agenda of internal load, 2 days back someone shared PL-15E AAM with folding fins from Zhuai airshow. AFAIK big/heavy missile do have folding fins but a medium missile is yet to be seen with AIM-120 AMRAAM, Meteor, etc. R-77 have folding grid fins.

View attachment 39265

Now there is no CAD of Meteor, Astr-3 SFDR with folding fins & i can't use PL-15E to depict in AMCA :crazy:
So i'm just clipping the fins in SFDR pic. IDK the safety gap spec but this looks like a safe fit, that too w/o staggering.

View attachment 39266

And i had already shown that 6 staggered AAMs of short fin version of Astr-2 could easily fit. So if we use folding fin version of it now then total 8 staggered AAMs or 16 SAAW bombs could fit. The ejectors shoud be firm & free from vibrations.

View attachment 39267

If this config is considered unsafe then in worst case 6 AAMs or 12 SAAW bombs can fit easily.

IWB versions of ARMs (Anti Radiation Missiles):
Kh-58UShKE, 650 Kg, 4.2-4.8m long, 380-400 mm diameter, 149 Kg warhead, 250 Km range, Mach 3.6
AGM-88G AARGM-ER, 467 Kg, 13'4/4.06m long, 292mm diameter, 68 Kg warhead, 300 Km range, Mach 2.9
But Rudram-1 cannot fit in AMCA'a IWB.
Rudram-1, 600 Kg, 18'/5.5m long, 340+/-mm diameter, 55 Kg warhead, 150-200 Km range, Mach 2
Rudram-2 & 3 are going to be even bigger.
If DoD makes IWB version of Rudram, it will make AMCA a dangerous SAM hunter.
There were Ramjet version missiles tested earlier but AARGM-ER uses modified solid fuel rocket motor.

1736792459068.png
 
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Hint towards the engine partner for AMCA, pointing towards the US. My prediction is the US, as it always has been since the MRCBF era, although my preference is France. But choosing France gives them way too much leverage with both MRFA and AMCA using their engines. The same risk is already evident in our helicopter programs, necessitating the need to bring in a competitor if HTSE-1200 fails.
 
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Media reports say Trump's apparently coming to India with an F-35 offer. I'm not sure if it's for local production or stopgap numbers, but something is in the works. Stryker too, obviously.

I had always assumed we will buy SH and that will pave the way for both F414 and AMCA's engine, but I guess clubbing it with the F-35 makes more sense.

Plus if there is a stopgap recommendation from MoD for the IAF, then 36 F-35 enhanced B4s (with new radar and engine) make more sense than 36 Rafale F4s in terms of enhancing capabilities, while MRFA delivers Rafale F5s.
 
If somehow Orange Bossman gets India to buy F-35's I'm gonna be pissed off while at the same time laughing my a** off at some of the people in here who talked sht about the F-35. That is some yin yang sht I'm gonna go through.
 
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If somehow Orange Bossman gets India to buy F-35's I'm gonna be pissed off while at the same time laughing my a** off at some of the people in here who talked sht about the F-35. That is some yin yang sht I'm gonna go through.
LMFAO....
my post from 2023.....i called it!!!
1737360368996.png


If orange-man comes swooping in, completely undoes the 36 Rafale-M deal[atrocious deal anyways] & replaces it with F-35 offer, i'm gonna die laughing!!!!!
AUKUS deal redux....😂
 
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Hint towards the engine partner for AMCA, pointing towards the US ??!

I saw that clip thrice including doing a headstand inside my office cabin but still didn't see any hints whatsoever that officer dropped in favour of US collaboration in a JV for the AMCA TF unless he's speaking in code which of course none of us can decipher except THE ONE AND ONLY out here !!

LMFAO....
my post from 2023.....i called it!!!
View attachment 39781

If orange-man comes swooping in, completely undoes the 36 Rafale-M deal[atrocious deal anyways] & replaces it with F-35 offer, i'm gonna die laughing!!!!!
AUKUS deal redux....😂
First & foremost nothing of that sort was revealed in that clip unless that officer was speaking in code which you can understand & which'd officially make you the second person out here to do so.

Secondly what exactly has that to do with the Rafale M deal which has already been finalised & will be inked during Modi's trip to Paris next month ?

Finally if you're hinting it has something to do with the second tranche of 36 nos Rafales we're due to order for the IAF, it's a foregone conclusion we will do exactly that as we've already paid for ISE & air bases to be prepared for 72 such FA.

If somehow Orange Bossman gets India to buy F-35's I'm gonna be pissed off while at the same time laughing my a** off at some of the people in here who talked sht about the F-35. That is some yin yang sht I'm gonna go through.
Sorry to p*ss on your parade, sweetie, but no such thing is happening or at least not this decade . If we ever go in for the F-35 it'd likely be the C or B version mostly the former for the 65,000 Ton displacement carriers we aim to build next decade by which time hopefully the F-35 would be a mature platform having completed all its necessary certifications , though there's no guarantee of this happening as well.

Err no sweetie I was referring to the possibility of us going in for the F-35 C not of the prospects of the F-35 NOT being certified next decade but I like how you think.

It's funny when you think of it but it was RST & /vstol Jockey who first brought this up pointing out to the better cohesiveness between the IN & USN for obvious reasons namely countering the PLAN which actually makes sense given the IN will get the TEDBF in limited numbers which'd cost a bomb & by the looks of it the next project for ADA is what seems to be the AHCA.

What this means is that there'd be no Naval version of it for obvious reasons. What this also means is unless we're about to undertake an even more costly project the N- AMCA of the Mk-2 version next decade, which'd also cost a bomb given limited numbers , there's a good chance we'd go in for the F-35 C. Goes without saying I prefer we go it our own way for whatever expertise we've built in this arena will otherwise die out.

And now RST is doing what he does best , shift goalposts, be all over the place , forgetting his earlier position on the matter & essentially return to his original position later in the day after being all over the place.

Must be rib tickling for newbies here not used to RST's antics but having seen this play out innumerable times in the past, it's as boring & tiresome as watching a suspense movie once again.
 
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If somehow Orange Bossman gets India to buy F-35's I'm gonna be pissed off while at the same time laughing my a** off at some of the people in here who talked sht about the F-35. That is some yin yang sht I'm gonna go through.

Not really. If we buy the F-35, it's gonna be with the new engine, new radar, enhanced EW suite etc, plus Israeli supported customization, not the crap the others bought. So this would include an Israeli EW suite and local support like the Israeli version.


It would be the complete B4 version because any new deal will take until 2031-32 to begin deliveries.

Anyway it's a long shot, let's see if the offer is serious.
 
LMFAO....
my post from 2023.....i called it!!!
View attachment 39781

If orange-man comes swooping in, completely undoes the 36 Rafale-M deal[atrocious deal anyways] & replaces it with F-35 offer, i'm gonna die laughing!!!!!
AUKUS deal redux....😂

Any new F-35 deal won't impact Rafale M or MRFA. M's set to be signed next month.

In any case an F-35 vs Su-57 competition has been on the cards for over a decade. The Russians are coming up with an offer next month too.
 
For the usual uninitiated, the part of the speech to focus on is the last snippet of the last sentence.

"...in collaboration with somebody who's been part of the game for years together."

Two meanings in one statement.

One: "We want somebody with experience." >> The problem with this statement is it's an oxymoron. There are only three competitors and have been part of the game for decades. So this goes without saying by default.

Two: We want somebody who has been participating in the Indian market for years. >> The only one among the three has been the US. F404, then F414, and we also wanted Honeywell's F125. When it came to F125, we did not even bother with the rival French engine, which was an easy fit, it was always Honeywell or bust.

With Russia in the MKI and Mig-29 programs, France handling M2000, Jaguar and Rafale/MRFA, things would balance out with America involved in the LCA and AMCA programs, especially with the massive focus on indigenization in LCA Mk2, MRFA, and AMCA. The IN too can balance things out with F414-equipped TEDBF and the Rafale M.

And the question would have been raised, ‘Why can’t you buy more of the Su-30s’. Now you can’t put all your eggs in one basket – strategically, it’s unwise. That’s one of the primary reasons.
-Air Marshal (retd) M Matheswaran


As for the F-35C, it is pointless as a carrier jet, especially in a post-2050 world. The IN needs a proper 6th gen fighter alongside their Rafale Ms. It's gonna have to be something we do ourselves or something along the lines of SCAF or a modernized F/A-XX. Our own TEDBF 2.0 is most likely, with Rafale holding the line until it's ready. Plus IN wants TEFs, they don't want to risk things with SEFs.

As for B, if we ever decide to set up a dedicated marine force, then we are gonna need AAS ships, and the requirement can come up then. It's too far away to speculate. This stuff will terrify our neighbors, so we need a big enough economy to suffer through the diplomatic blowback. Even the Chinese are working on it now. They created their dedicated marine force a decade ago and started getting new ships in the last 2-3 years. They are working on their own VTOL fighter. This capability is a part of my wishlist, but it's not gonna be a reality anytime before 2050.
 
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Media reports say Trump's apparently coming to India with an F-35 offer. I'm not sure if it's for local production or stopgap numbers, but something is in the works. Stryker too, obviously.

I had always assumed we will buy SH and that will pave the way for both F414 and AMCA's engine, but I guess clubbing it with the F-35 makes more sense.

Plus if there is a stopgap recommendation from MoD for the IAF, then 36 F-35 enhanced B4s (with new radar and engine) make more sense than 36 Rafale F4s in terms of enhancing capabilities, while MRFA delivers Rafale F5s.

F 35 can scare China more than Rafale. F35 can prove to be very effective against Chinese AC and ships in ocean. It can perform certain missions which Gripen can not perform. However, Gripen too have some great capability. We need atleast 2 to 3 squadron of both plane in addition to what we have as stop gap.
 
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