ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

sid4587

Active member
Jan 10, 2018
375
179
India
The delay with AMCA has nothing to do with the govt, the engine is yet to be finalized before development can continue.
I guess development is still on as they need to check avionics and airframe with F414, which is a major milestone. Parallely engine development for >110KN thrust would be carried out.
Most probably by 3rd quarter of this year JV for engine development of AMCA will be announced. By the time other plane modules are verified we might have developed engine(Joint-Venture) also, like somewhere around 2025. Integration and testing again should start from 2025.
If everything goes as per plan and Joint-venture for engine development does not face any major challenge then I guess we are doing good. This is my speculation after following all the deeper news links and annual reports.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shashank

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
8,151
5,535
India
I guess development is still on as they need to check avionics and airframe with F414, which is a major milestone. Parallely engine development for >110KN thrust would be carried out.
Most probably by 3rd quarter of this year JV for engine development of AMCA will be announced. By the time other plane modules are verified we might have developed engine(Joint-Venture) also, like somewhere around 2025. Integration and testing again should start from 2025.
If everything goes as per plan and Joint-venture for engine development does not face any major challenge then I guess we are doing good. This is my speculation after following all the deeper news links and annual reports.
Once an engine is chosen, they will finalize the PSQR and complete the design of the AMCA. Only then can FSED start.
 

Shekhar Singh

Well-Known member
Dec 8, 2017
364
347
Varanasi
Is India about to take a final call on engines for its AMCA 5th Gen fighter program?

Published January 31, 2018 | By admin SOURCE: **** NEWS NETWORK
While India is yet to select an engine which will power India’s efforts to develop a 5th generation fighter aircraft dubbed Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) but as per Industrial sources close to ****, the long pending decision on the selection of the supplier might take place this year. India till now has received proposals from General Electric, EuroJet Turbo GmbH and Rolls-Royce on supply of low bypass turbofan jet engine which could be used as the power plant of the AMCA and then there is also offer from Safran to co-develop a new engine using Kaveri engine core to meet AMCA’s Specific demand to generate 110kN Class of Thrust . US Multinational Aero engine Giant General Electric has offered to use F414-GE-INS6 producing 97.9 kN Thrust Class engine as a benchmark to develop a new engine using new core and a redesigned fan and compressor to implement an Internal “Enhanced Performance Engine” program to achieve the desired thrust required to power India’s AMCA Program. European consortium EuroJet Turbo GmbH has offered to use their EJ200 low bypass turbofan jet engine generating 90 kN of Wet Thrust as a benchmark to develop new engine variant using their EJ2x0 enhancements package to meet thrust class requirements of India’s AMCA Program. Interestingly UK’s Rolls-Royce which is also part of EuroJet Turbo GmbH consortium seems to also have made a separate proposal to India to develop a new engine, details of which unfortunately were never made public. India already has carried out closed door meetings with all interested suppliers and also have received their proposal in details and many internal deliberations have happened with all concerned parties. Safran and GTRE joining hands to revive India’s stalled Kaveri engine program also seems to have pushed back the selection of engine supplier due to growing chorus withing Airforce and Scientific community in India to work on an indigenous engine to power AMCA program to help reduce the imported content in India’s next fighter jet. 2018 will see some major developments regarding India’s 5th Generation AMCA program feel Industrial insiders and as part of this effort, major decision related to the program are likely to be taken, including several key decisions like choice of engine to be used in the AMCA. As per information put out by India’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) which is the nodal agency for the design & development of AMCA. First Two Technological Demonstrators (TD) and Two Prototypes (PV) of AMCA followed immediately will be powered by General Electric supplied F414-GE-INS6 engines which India has already received to complete Phase-1 of Developmental trials. Second Phase will see the use of new 110kN Class engine procured from winning vendor to power other Prototypes and limited Serial Production aircrafts and selected engines will continue to receive minor up-gradation and other performance enchantments till the engine is cleared for mass scale production.
 

Bharath

Technical Staff
Dec 1, 2017
792
998
Boston
These are some aggressive timelines for AMCA (NGTD) TD's.
Just 3.5 years from PDR to first flight?
because it doesnt take effort to promise the moon. (sorry, couldnt resist the troll moment)
back to topic:

Also saurav jha has tweeted Fe414 INS6 for TD's.
Having learnt from the LCA experience to decouple "yet to be built" modules (like engines, composites, stealth skin, radar) and using only proven, existing modules (f414 INS6), AL alloys, no radars etc, it might be possible.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
8,151
5,535
India
I really hope they stick to those dates.

Plus it looks like they don't want HAL running it, but involve other private companies.

The company selected will manufacture the prototypes as well. Which means, this company will also become the lead integrator.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
8,151
5,535
India
Is this news true?

Not one word is true. I'll be happy if they make a 90KN Kaveri for the LCA Mk1A. For thrust well above 100KN, we are yet to pick a partner and get started. The Kaveri's engine life is not particularly impressive. It's about 3000 hours. But this is with using obsolete materials. Newer materials can improve TTL and thrust.

Also, MKI will not get Kaveri. The MKI will receive newer 145KN engines from Russia.
 

Guynextdoor

Banned
Dec 19, 2017
3,949
1,031
India
Not one word is true. I'll be happy if they make a 90KN Kaveri for the LCA Mk1A. For thrust well above 100KN, we are yet to pick a partner and get started. The Kaveri's engine life is not particularly impressive. It's about 3000 hours. But this is with using obsolete materials. Newer materials can improve TTL and thrust.

Also, MKI will not get Kaveri. The MKI will receive newer 145KN engines from Russia.
basically dude did a lot of BSing using technical language? He seems to have worked hard at it :)
 

Shekhar Singh

Well-Known member
Dec 8, 2017
364
347
Varanasi
Aeronautical Development Agency Issues EOI to Manufacture NGTD

The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has issued an expression of interest (EOI) seeking the participation of vendors in the manufacturing of the Next Generation Technology Demonstrator(NGTD), which would demonstrate the capabilities of the basic platform out of which the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) would be derived.
The issuing if the EOI indicates that wind tunnel tests and the Preliminary Design Review(PDR) might have been completed .
The vendors would be required to design tooling and processes for manufacturing parts based on the drawings presented by the DRDO , prepare sub-assembly jigs and test rigs for the components, LRUs and the whole airframe. The NGTD would be integrated at the Final Assembly and Check Out (FACO) Facility at the Sulur Air Force Base, Coimbatore. FACO would include infrastructure and hanger spacing provided by DRDO where the final assembly, integration and flight testing would be conducted.
The whole process is expected to require expertise in handling aerospace grade alloys with aluminium ,steel, titanium and composites, the entire external surface is to be manufactured using Carbon Fibre Composites. System integration capabilities concerning propulsion, mechanical, electrical, flight control and avionics would be key for final outfitting. The complete process from raw material procurement to final rollout of the first Technology Demonstrator is to take three and half years, the second TD would be rolled out in the next six months. ADA is aiming to complete the vibration, structural tests and the flight testing process in six years. The timelines look highly ambitious considering the technical challenges associated and one can only hope that ADA is not committing the same mistakes it committed with the GTRE in the LCA/Kaveri programme.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TARGET

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
8,151
5,535
India
GTRE requires $2B sanctioned before they go ahead with the increased thrust variant.

And obviously there will be no movement on that until the K9 and K9+ are successful. And we will get to know only after Kaveri is made flightworthy by the end of the year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Angel Eyes

Vicky

Rajaraja Chola
Dec 1, 2017
342
377
Canada
The vendors would be required to design tooling and processes for manufacturing parts based on the drawings presented by the DRDO , prepare sub-assembly jigs and test rigs for the components, LRUs and the whole airframe. The NGTD would be integrated at the Final Assembly and Check Out (FACO) Facility at the Sulur Air Force Base, Coimbatore. FACO would include infrastructure and hanger spacing provided by DRDO where the final assembly, integration and flight testing would be conducted.
Now this is a point of discussion. Saurav Jha was telling that establishing parallel facilities in Coimbatore will cost another 15k crores which is though without basis. But what's the point in replication of facilities? ADA and HAL are now rivals? If it would save money it could be done at Bangalore.
Or ADA have decided to create separate infrastructure of its own?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya