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Why dont anyone understand here that capture of WC Abhinandan was Indias weakest point in that skirmish , it forced us to back down. Opposition parties had candled ready to march on PMO to demand release of WC. If Abhi wouldn't have been captured we would have retaliated for sure.
If we would have retaliated after they released Abhi the world would have condemned us for aggression , release of Abhi was unilateral deescalation by Pakistanis
 
Nice to see you here friend. A knowledgeable guy like should be here and not on that troll forum.
I agree with you sir
Why dont anyone understand here that capture of WC Abhinandan was Indias weakest point in that skirmish , it forced us to back down. Opposition parties had candled ready to march on PMO to demand release of WC. If Abhi wouldn't have been captured we would have retaliated for sure.
If we would have retaliated after they released Abhi the world would have condemned us for aggression , release of Abhi was unilateral deescalation by Pakistanis
Then they simply won the perception of war,like it or not..
 
India was not prepared because Modi as per his own words did not expect Pakistan to even acknowledge the Balakot strikes... National security should be based on preparing for the worst, but the Modi government just hoped for the best and left it at that...

After tweet by Gafoor, Modi was expecting a counter strike. He admitted in an interview.

The biggest giveaway of PAF intentions on 27 Feb was flight levels. A strike package carries fighters at different altitudes depending on what duties are relegated to them.
 
Exclusive: 'We Didn't Miss' - Air Force Pilots Who Flew Balakot Mission

One of the pilots said he had flown approximately eight kilometres across the line of control to get into a position to fire the Spice bomb

GWALIOR: HIGHLIGHTS


"We smoked a lot of cigarettes before the mission," says the young Squadron Leader who was one among the group of pilots who struck the Jaish-e-Mohammad terror training facility near Balakot in Pakistan in February. "We kept pacing up and down once we knew what our mission was."

The Squadron Leader was one among two Mirage 2000 fighter pilots who NDTV spoke to on their role in the attack, the first Indian Air Force assault on a target inside Pakistan since the 1971 war.

NDTV has been requested not to reveal the names of either of the two pilots who we spoke to.

"The entire operation took approximately two-and-a-half hours," says the second Squadron Leader. Both pilots launched Spice 2000 satellite-guided bombs at the target.

On February 26, the Indian Air Force (IAF) had deployed 12 Mirage 2000 jets, which were meant to take out the terrorist facility by firing two separate types of Israeli munitions - the Spice 2000, designed to penetrate deep inside the structures which were targeted and the Crystal Maze, meant to send back a video feed of the targets as it struck them. Used in conjunction, the weapons were meant to obliterate the entire facility, while providing the IAF with video evidence of the strike. This was meant to showcase India's resolve in taking on those that it says were responsible for the Pulwama terror attack in February in which 40 Central Reserve Police Force soldiers were killed.


A low cloud base prevented the IAF from launching the Crystal Maze weapons on the day of the attacks though the fighters deployed did manage to launch five of the six Spice 2000 bombs they were armed with.

"I have no doubt that the Spice 2000 hit its target," says the second Mirage pilot when asked about the controversy on the effectiveness of the IAF strikes. Images released by satellite imaging company DigitalGlobe which were showcased on several international sites showed all the structures at the Jaish camp intact despite the IAF strike. "The resolution of the satellite imagery which was shown is nowhere close to what is needed to accurately show the ingress points of the weapon" says one of the pilots. "The Spice 2000 is not a weapon that misses. There may have been efforts at concealing the damage caused on the roofs of the buildings."

The IAF has consistently maintained that the Spice 2000 weapon it used was designed to penetrate to a certain depth before exploding. The variant of the bomb used was meant to take out human targets without necessarily destroying buildings. NDTV has also been shown an ultra-high resolution image of one of the targets showing three precise holes on the roof of one of the main structures targets. Foreign diplomats and journalists who were taken to the site by Pakistani authorities forty three days after the attack were not shown this building thought to be a hostel for terrorist recruits.

Asked whether those two hours during the mission were the longest in his career, one of the two pilots said, ''It went by in a flash because there was so much to do." One of the big concerns of the IAF attack formation was the distinct possibility of a Pakistani response. Though the two pilots NDTV spoke to did not pick up a Pakistani interceptor on their radars, they were alerted to the presence of at least one Pakistani jet flying towards the Indian formation by the airborne warning aircraft coordinating the IAF's attack. By then, they had launched their weapons and were safely out of harm's way. "The Spice 2000 is a fire and forget weapon. You don't need to loiter in the area while it flies towards its target," said one pilot.
@Arsalan123 @vstol Jockey
 
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Exclusive: 'We Didn't Miss' - Air Force Pilots Who Flew Balakot Mission

One of the pilots said he had flown approximately eight kilometres across the line of control to get into a position to fire the Spice bomb

GWALIOR: HIGHLIGHTS


"We smoked a lot of cigarettes before the mission," says the young Squadron Leader who was one among the group of pilots who struck the Jaish-e-Mohammad terror training facility near Balakot in Pakistan in February. "We kept pacing up and down once we knew what our mission was."

The Squadron Leader was one among two Mirage 2000 fighter pilots who NDTV spoke to on their role in the attack, the first Indian Air Force assault on a target inside Pakistan since the 1971 war.

NDTV has been requested not to reveal the names of either of the two pilots who we spoke to.

"The entire operation took approximately two-and-a-half hours," says the second Squadron Leader. Both pilots launched Spice 2000 satellite-guided bombs at the target.

On February 26, the Indian Air Force (IAF) had deployed 12 Mirage 2000 jets, which were meant to take out the terrorist facility by firing two separate types of Israeli munitions - the Spice 2000, designed to penetrate deep inside the structures which were targeted and the Crystal Maze, meant to send back a video feed of the targets as it struck them. Used in conjunction, the weapons were meant to obliterate the entire facility, while providing the IAF with video evidence of the strike. This was meant to showcase India's resolve in taking on those that it says were responsible for the Pulwama terror attack in February in which 40 Central Reserve Police Force soldiers were killed.


A low cloud base prevented the IAF from launching the Crystal Maze weapons on the day of the attacks though the fighters deployed did manage to launch five of the six Spice 2000 bombs they were armed with.

"I have no doubt that the Spice 2000 hit its target," says the second Mirage pilot when asked about the controversy on the effectiveness of the IAF strikes. Images released by satellite imaging company DigitalGlobe which were showcased on several international sites showed all the structures at the Jaish camp intact despite the IAF strike. "The resolution of the satellite imagery which was shown is nowhere close to what is needed to accurately show the ingress points of the weapon" says one of the pilots. "The Spice 2000 is not a weapon that misses. There may have been efforts at concealing the damage caused on the roofs of the buildings."

The IAF has consistently maintained that the Spice 2000 weapon it used was designed to penetrate to a certain depth before exploding. The variant of the bomb used was meant to take out human targets without necessarily destroying buildings. NDTV has also been shown an ultra-high resolution image of one of the targets showing three precise holes on the roof of one of the main structures targets. Foreign diplomats and journalists who were taken to the site by Pakistani authorities forty three days after the attack were not shown this building thought to be a hostel for terrorist recruits.

Asked whether those two hours during the mission were the longest in his career, one of the two pilots said, ''It went by in a flash because there was so much to do." One of the big concerns of the IAF attack formation was the distinct possibility of a Pakistani response. Though the two pilots NDTV spoke to did not pick up a Pakistani interceptor on their radars, they were alerted to the presence of at least one Pakistani jet flying towards the Indian formation by the airborne warning aircraft coordinating the IAF's attack. By then, they had launched their weapons and were safely out of harm's way. "The Spice 2000 is a fire and forget weapon. You don't need to loiter in the area while it flies towards its target," said one pilot.
@Arsalan123 @vstol Jockey
That means IAF has high resolution imagery , when are they going to release?and this is what we are ignoring , Ghafoor showed madrassa to the journos which wasnt even a target , he should have showed the dormitory where jihadis sleep that was the target. If we had missed Pakistanis wouldn't have taken 43 days to show it to the journos , now its upto the individual to believe it or not , i believe we have definitely hit it
 
After tweet by Gafoor, Modi was expecting a counter strike. He admitted in an interview.

The biggest giveaway of PAF intentions on 27 Feb was flight levels. A strike package carries fighters at different altitudes depending on what duties are relegated to them.
By that time it was a bit late... The planning for the Balakot strike itself should have taken Pakistani counterstrike into account.. but anyway India bombing a nuclear neighbour was a first, so there was no template of historical experiences to follow... so the Modi team is learning too... and they will be wiser the next time..
 
His post is always based on facts and depths.
Yup like claiming use of guided bombs not or one or two but 12 to target empty fields, or repeating kill of Su30 or even better reporters were not taken to site because it will confirm existence of terror camp as they will match it with intel dossier of India so next time beware of taking anyone to your home, what if they match your facebook photo, it may confirm presence of terror camp.

Too much facts and depth, I am drowning.
 
Sir, I'm only going by the official IAF press release which acknowledged PAF SOWs falling within IA compounds.
So why do you even bother to waste your time rebutting statements by Sameer Joshi or some other " non official IAF " statements.. Well looks like you do it when it suits you.. and atleast PAF fighters fleeing in haste managed to drop the H-4s on our side of the loc.. and as the target was any open space anywhere across the loc, the PAF pilots passed their test with flying colours
 
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Do you have a master whom you work for?

In The Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna shows his supreme divine form to Arjuna and reaches the sky with glory, evoking fear and might, this image was penned down as a shloka :-

nabhah-sparsham diptam aneka varnam, vyattananam diptavishalanethram drishtva hi thvam pravyathitantar atma, dhruthim na vindami saman cha vishnu

Figure out what this means, since you love riddles from god men, and you'll figure out the true potential of the real masters :)

and if you need help, ask vstol Jockey
 
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I believe phalcon can do more.
Falcon mentioned electronic signature confirmed F16 kill.
F16 drop tank at the site of mig21 crash..
For us it won't matter whether F16 or mirage 3 went down, why would we get obsessed with F16 kill.
Pak has not come out with any official announcement.
Strangely Lara salingman reported full count of F16s even though Pentagon said it's not aware of it.

From Indian point of view after IAF came out with statement and radar pic, we don't doubt their narrative. And we look up for Pak or US official source s for others to accept it.
I agree, the Phalcon is a very capable system. Other than that you are entitled to your opinion.
A slight correction though, the drop tank does not belong to the F-16. Kindly go through this analysis of the debris:
IN DEPTH: Indian Plane Shot Down Over Pakistan in February - Medium

I almost took you serious before you started quoting ISPR propaganda word to word. Whats with you people, this is not Pakistani forum we wont sell you out to ISPR if you talk truth, even your most rational ones amazes me at times.
Sir, I would encourage you to point out the inaccuracies in my narrative. You have absolutely no obligation to take me seriously, so please feel free to disagree.

Yup like claiming use of guided bombs not or one or two but 12 to target empty fields, or repeating kill of Su30 or even better reporters were not taken to site because it will confirm existence of terror camp as they will match it with intel dossier of India so next time beware of taking anyone to your home, what if they match your facebook photo, it may confirm presence of terror camp.

Too much facts and depth, I am drowning.
Sir, I only mentioned 2x H-4s and 4x Mk-83 REKs launched by PAF, i.e. 6x SOWs in total.
Again, I clearly described that PAF has only circumstantial evidence of the unconfirmed kill.
Honestly, the reporters thing is the weakest argument for Indians trying to prove that Balakot strikes hit something. Satellite imagery is the best source of open source BDA, followed by social media...given that the journalism from the target area is heavily censored.

Please don't drown, this forum needs you.

It is not possible that within 24 hours their PAF was ready to hit India hard and such a huge movement of logistics were not detected overnight.
Sir, all main operational bases have stocks of aerial munitions, including AAMs and PGMs.

So why do you even bother to waste your time rebutting statements by Sameer Joshi or some other " non official IAF " statements.. Well looks like you do it when it suits you.. and atleast PAF fighters fleeing in haste managed to drop the H-4s on our side of the loc.. and as the target was any open space anywhere across the loc, the PAF pilots passed their test with flying colours
Sir, its only because Sameer Joshi's analysis is being spread around as if it is the official version from IAF. As per official statements, IAF merely states that "we hit what we intended to, and got the effect that we needed", or "the proof of Balakot strikes is blowing in the wind". I'm not sure what to make of these statements. If you're aware of any other official IAF statements claiming use of penetration munitions etc, I'd be glad to know.

Regarding H-4s (aka Denel Raptor-II, official range 120km), the SFM (solid-fuel motor aka booster) assemblies of 2x H-4s were found in Pakistani villages of Pind Aziz (27km from LoC, 38km from Naushera, 60km from Rajouri) and Machia (17km from LoC, 32km from Narian, 54km from Rajouri). Typically the boosters are jettisoned when the SOW has attained the required altitude and speed to begin the glide. Adding the distance flown in boost-phase (unknown), we can fairly conclude that the 2x H-4s were launched from deep within Pakistani airspace. Therefore I don't believe that any of those H-4s were 'dropped in haste'.

The govt can't reveal SAR images due to sensitivity. They aren't in it for the PR game. In fact, they probably assumed that Pak will deny the strike itself.
That is a fair argument.

Why will IAF tell him anything?
Is he the IAF Chief or NSA or PM to get accurate information?
Too much speculation on type of penetrator used, possibility of shockwave etc.
That's something for him to answer. It's his speculation after all.
That's something for those experts to answer, whether they agree with Joshi or not.
Interesting observations.

Narrative? Everything you see is speculation. It becomes a narrative only if the govt participates in it. As far as the govt is concerned, they hit the targets successfully.
Heads need not roll after successful strikes, and their position has not changed since the day of the strikes.
Will I be correct to assume that you'd rather stick to the official statements, than speculation by an ex-IAF pilot claiming to have been told all this by IAF sources?

Penetration munition was used to get through different floors of the building. The Spice can be programmed to hit a specific floor after penetration.
IAF didn't have that type of Spice unfortunately. Recently bought some of that building razing type.
Fragmentation. They do not do structural damage.
Sir, if I recall correctly, IAF never official claimed that they used "penetrators". Please feel free to correct me.
Regarding SPICE-2000's compatibility, it is compatible with commonly used 2000lbs general-purpose bombs. Unless of course IAF does not have 2000lbs general-purpose bombs, in which case, I rest my case.

Those craters in Balakot have nothing to do with the IAF.
I'm failing to understand how. Could you elaborate?
 
There is absolutely no evidence of balakot strikes.satellites have failed to see the impact on buildings.if you guys have any proof,kindly share

There are 4 protocols for a SPice 2000 strike

1) End point GPS location
2) Image comparison between the images loaded into the bombs by RAW agents and the feed that compares it before strike
3) Way point navigation - during multiple stages of the flight the bomb checks heading, velocity and altitude to adjust the glide path
4) Release protocol- the computers on board the mirage will allow the bomb to be released only if the aircraft has reached an altitude and position that can carry out the strike with precision

So if 6 bombs were dropped, over 24 different checks were done. You suggesting all 24 of them failed?
 
There are 4 protocols for a SPice 2000 strike

1) End point GPS location
2) Image comparison between the images loaded into the bombs by RAW agents and the feed that compares it before strike
3) Way point navigation - during multiple stages of the flight the bomb checks heading, velocity and altitude to adjust the glide path
4) Release protocol- the computers on board the mirage will allow the bomb to be released only if the aircraft has reached an altitude and position that can carry out the strike with precision

So if 6 bombs were dropped, over 24 different checks were done. You suggesting all 24 of them failed?


One didn't release due to a fail-safe that found an error in the launch checklist (allegedly of course)
 
Do not assume what I know about Bhagvat Geeta. Myopic skewed material viewpoint understanding of it is not what Geeta is for. Yes, Mahabharata is loaded with warfare for material.

Not sure which context you are referring to as the "real masters" - at the local battlefield level, or the PsyOps level, or at the level of two countries, or even bigger at the International MIC or even bigger at the world level of the control of money and their proxies? Which master do you want to know?

It was not me who was seeking answers about the masters and it is still you who hasn't figured out my riddle.
Shame, since you seem to know much more than I.
 
It was not me who was seeking answers about the masters and it is still you who hasn't figured out my riddle.
Shame, since you seem to know much more than I.

You seem to be too obsessed with your idea, without paying attention to what the other replied. I told you already that Bhagvat Geeta has nothing to do with the material world, Mahabharat is. Bhagvat Geeta is a path to spiritual enlightenment.

When you have nothing concrete to reply with, this is the level you stoop down to. Well portrayed your character.
 
That means IAF has high resolution imagery , when are they going to release?and this is what we are ignoring , Ghafoor showed madrassa to the journos which wasnt even a target , he should have showed the dormitory where jihadis sleep that was the target. If we had missed Pakistanis wouldn't have taken 43 days to show it to the journos , now its upto the individual to believe it or not , i believe we have definitely hit it
Now DRDO has develop glide bomb of over 150 km of range so many of the targets in Pakistan should be in the range of Indian fighter planes without entering into Pakistan air space. There are many targets which are into the range of Indian glide bomb released of Indian territory.
 
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