Yeah, no official interest in the Su-57 yet. And we are not buying the F-35.
PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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Yeah, no official interest in the Su-57 yet. And we are not buying the F-35.
There is "plenty" of official interest in Su-57 and is "unofficially" already chosen by IAF as our 'stop-gap' 5th gen fighter before AMCA matures. Officially the acknowledgment will only come once this proposal clears DAC. Till then we will continue to hear such ambiguous statements.
It's not clearing DAC till we pay Jizia to the US & a substantial one at that . That's not happening since SCOTUS has struck down Trump's tariffs which in turn means the entire trade deal will have to be re negotiated.
In the meanwhile current hostilities in Iran means prices of O&NG see massive spikes with supplies disrupted . This in turn means we increase off take from Russia which in turn agitates Trump.
Long story short I'd be very surprised if there's any movement on the Su-57 this year. Back channel talks may continue but unless the above issues are resolved plus we don't sign up for a massive weapons package with the US chances of us signing an agreement with Russia for the Su-57 preceding the aforementioned activities are remote to non existent.
Let me go a step further & state we won't be signing an agreement with the Russians till we wrap up the Rafale deal , the JV for the 120 KN TF & a CF between Russia & Ukraine isn't effected.
Those are not critical technologies. You forgot the Swedish MAWS on MKM as well, but not considered critical in Sweden. Sigma 95 is available in the open market too.
Russia never had access to what we consider critical, nor the Europeans.
M2000 has the same MDPU as Rafale, and it doesn't carry any 2nd MC for the same level of access we are expecting from Rafale.
Using the same MDPU, the French can protect their core systems while giving us access to weapons integration, calibration of radar and EW suite etc via separate modules. That's the point of open architecture.
The F-35 is closed, hence the 2nd MC.
If there's no MKIzation, the deal will be similar to Rafale's GTG, ie, we will have to go through Sukhoi to integrate our weapons.
If there is MKIzation, core avionics will be Indian, a la MKI MLU style. No Russians necessary. As long as we get our own MRO, which is quite likely.
Pretty much. To counter PLAAF on their terms, we will need equal forces or create alternative capabilities. We have chosen to do the latter for now.
40 Su-57s will not be enough on their own, but they are enough to cover 2 main sectors for the first week at least.
The current version has not been built for penetration missions anyway, only the drone is.
It will function as deterrence though, plus get our pilots trained in dealing with stealth before our main capabilities become operational.
No secrets are transferred during that process. Do you really think the Israelis are giving up their core algorithms for the EL/M 2052 for LCAs? But we are doing the integration in India, aren't we?
You are looking for problems where none exist.
It looks more like a ploy to remove HAL's influence over the Russians by asking for a direct import.
And they can string the Rusians along for a while and kill it citing international pressure, or saying they will buy something alternate like the S-400s.
In both cases, it appears they are finishing for information; PAK FA and SCAF, while pressuring other players to show off their wares.
Let's not forget the insane pressure Pakistan will be under, while at the same time, we can prevent Russia from getting close to Pakistan as well.
We won't be foolish enough to antagonize Trump either, so we will have to wait for his term to finish. Our entire indigenous program will fall flat for many years without the F414 contract as well.
The IAF is not gonna let anything come in their way until Rafale is signed. So they are buying time in many ways.
We won't be foolish enough to antagonize Trump either, so we will have to wait for his term to finish. Our entire indigenous program will fall flat for many years without the F414 contract as well.
The IAF is not gonna let anything come in their way until Rafale is signed. So they are buying time in many ways.
The French kit is not critical, yes. But the Russians would've had integration access to put it on their own SM birds.
Nope. HAL put in a 2nd MC on the upgraded M2000I to ease weapons integration as the core MDPU was essentially a black box for us. See below.
DefSec RK Singh has said we are now negotiating for independent weapons integration w/o source code. So, we'll likely be going the same dual MC route for MRFA as well.
Valid points
. Su-57 deal would ONLY become official once we will have signed the 114 Rafale deal. Till then everything is through unofficial channels
As long as the Ukraine War rages on, the sword of tarrifs/sanctions (CAATSA) will always be hanging over our heads. Venezuelan oil is cheaper (being of a heavier grade) and we are among the few countries that have the processing infra for it.
So, the 'cost' argument we've been using so far is becoming less and less defensible.
Besides, Trump will likely not make any exceptions for India on new military purchases from Russia, esp since he has publicly offered the F-35 as an alternative.
So GoI will likely bide its time till Trump leaves office in 2028-39 to close on the Su-57.
So, the 'cost' argument we've been using so far is becoming less and less defensible.
Besides, Trump will likely not make any exceptions for India on new military purchases from Russia, esp since he has publicly offered the F-35 as an alternative.
So GoI will likely bide its time till Trump leaves office in 2028-39 to close on the Su-57.
They don't use it. They have GLONASS.
Although they call it an MC, it's just a bridge. Its primary job is to retrieve mission and sensor data from MDPU and make it readable to the pilot for the non-French HMDS.
Simply put, MDPU converts core French format to a common Indian format and sends it to the HAL MC, which then uses a graphics processor to display the new format on to the HMDS. It basically connects the plane to the pilot.
You can see that the weapons functions are directly controlled by the MDPU. Even the LDP's sensor feed is sent to the MDPU for fusion. So it's not a second MC.
Doesn't help our cause . In fact none of the current procurements help our cause against the Chinese be it the Rafales or the Su-57 or the Project 75 I or the series of Kusha LR SAM or the Sudarshan Chakra ADS or anything you can think of .Valid points
We're preparing the fight the Chinese a decade after the real fight will happen . By that time our goals would've shifted considerably. We'd need better internal security measures , better internal intelligence , better drones doing ISR on the border & internally , better cyber security & abilities & so on.
In short the war by 2040 will be waged internally & we'd be getting everything from Rafales to Su-57 to AMCA to the S-5 SSBN to the SSNs to the IAC-3 to the 6th Gen FA to you name it.
Wouldn't they have just called it a display processor, instead? Why conflate it with MC which has a broader set of functions, one of which is weapons mgmt?
It also stores maintenance records and transmits and receives instructions to and from the MDPU, like when to fire weapons. And it also provides manual control over the CMDS. It also stores mission data transferred over from the MDPU.
It acts as a mission computer for the pilot rather than the plane.
I'm not the one who made such absurd claims in the first place, apart from being a twin engine plane and having wings, those jets arent really similar and its kinda absurd and disrespectful to engineering as a whole to simply see it as so.
I asked you to back up your claim with sources, but your response is that I am hurting the feelings of some people.
Sir, are you a white lib chick?
Su 57 while being a new design, Extensively reuses lot of manufacturing process and tooling of legacy flankers designs, significant part of its component are also borrowed from legacy flankers like the Hydraulic Actuators, which are finally being replaced in SU57M modification with EHA.
There's a reason when russian team visited hal, they said 50% of the existing production capacity at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for the Su-30MKI can be utilized for the manufacturing of Su-57.
I can see the Russian con more clearly now. Sell India ToT of the Su-57 claiming similarities in production technology & tooling between the MKI & Su-57 for a king's ransom like these ancient hydraulic actuators , etc , pocket the money & use it to fund the next stage of development of the Su-57 retaining the technology only for VKS .
That was always the plan during our collaboration with the Russians for the FGFA wherein we funded 50% of the project & I suspect le Francais have something similar or a variation of this up their sleeves .
They can as we're moving more and more towards our indigenous fighters. That's our final aim.
This time we are negotiating them from a position of strength. Fulfill our demands or get the eff out. Simple.