PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions

Sathya said:
If we are buying large number of Su57, then lot of Su30 mki will retire.
We should be porting UPG program to the Mki zation of Su57 program.
Maybe only 83 Su 30 mki will get upgraded as interim development.
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Nothing in our inventory can replace Su-30MKI. Rather than replacing all those old MKI airframes, we should convert them as BrahMos-A carrier. This Su-30MKI and BrahMos-A combo is very uncanny and our most deadly combo against both land and maritime targets.

In fact, I'm in favour of IAF procuring new MKI UPG. airframes of around 50-100 and convert the earlier 100 jets as BrahMos carriers. This is our shortcut towards a more survivable mini-bomber fleet which can penetrate contested skies and even protect itself.

Let's see what IAF decides🤷‍
 
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Currently, GoI is walking on egg shells to keep the interim trade deal from falling apart. Will we have seek CAATSA exceptions from the US like we're doing for Russian oil? Will they oblige us by giving us a waiver? At what cost?

Fighter ac deals are driven by politics as much as the are by military considerations. Imo, new build MKIs and UPG + Rafale 114 are all we can hope for at the moment, esp w/the ME tensions.
 
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The statement was made by Speedster1 on post #329222. You countered without any reference. I was pointing that out.
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Fair enough, didn't notice post #329222 wasn't from you since you were the one who replied to my comment.

No need to get emotional and put it on the entire engineering community. They are fine with calling some russian jet mid, i asked.
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Firstly, most of the people you are referring arent engineers or are from the engineering community, they are american fanboys who wanna downplay everything russian and make everything american look like the gold standard even though reality is different. Most dont even know how rcs works let alone the other design principles or philosophies behind jets and just wanna berate countries for having different requirements and designing it as per it. Even with all the propoganda, a simple look at the tech and capability of Su57 would make you realize that its easily in the top 4 jets in the world no matter which jet you like although I personally believe its the best fighter jet on the planet right now, so to call it mid is simply a moronic statement.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
If you read my posts closely, I never mention Su-57E or Su-57EKI, it's always Su-57MKI. Notice the highlighted "M" here. IAF ain't going for any half-baked 5th gen fighter. Our version would be more stealthy from all aspects than what the VVS is operating in form of Su-57S. Just wait for sometime and things would become more clear.

PS: Even the current Su-57S is way more stealthy and deadly than MKI. Any comparison is just sheer Western propaganda.
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That I agree with. If we go for Su-57, I'm sure it will be the twin-seat version with better stealth than the current one along with the Izd 30, not 177. It's difficult to expect any such thing happening this decade, that's all. 2030+ contract, 2035+ induction of up to 60 jets minimum, so Su-60 MKI.

The way things are going with GE, I'm sure both LCA Mk2 and AMCA will be delayed. I hope ADA is looking at alternatives to power AMCA Mk1. Kaveri 2.0 is coming up to be a suitable replacement. The Americans are definitely planning to screw us over.

www.businesstoday.in

'Need a separate engine': Ex IAF officer warns Kaveri 1.0 won't cut it for AMCA, Tejas Mk2 - BusinessToday

The former pilot outlined the technical, financial, and strategic bottlenecks of the original Kaveri engine programme, arguing that while the current Kaveri variant has come far, it cannot meet future thrust requirements
www.businesstoday.in www.businesstoday.in
 
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batman said:
Fair enough, didn't notice post #329222 wasn't from you since you were the one who replied to my comment.
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That post was asking you for an explanation, but you are incapable of providing one.

Also, learn to quote replies. No one gets notification when you reply like this.

batman said:
Firstly, most of the people you are referring arent engineers or are from the engineering community, they are american fanboys who wanna downplay everything russian and make everything american look like the gold standard even though reality is different. Most dont even know how rcs works let alone the other design principles or philosophies behind jets and just wanna berate countries for having different requirements and designing it as per it. Even with all the propoganda, a simple look at the tech and capability of Su57 would make you realize that its easily in the top 4 jets in the world no matter which jet you like although I personally believe its the best fighter jet on the planet right now, so to call it mid is simply a moronic statement.
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Again, you are making generic statements without any explanations or providing source. No one cares how you feel or believe.

How do you know if you haven't fallen for Russian propaganda? That's where the explanation part comes in, you see.
 
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batman said:
a simple look at the tech and capability of Su57 would make you realize that its easily in the top 4 jets in the world no matter which jet you like although I personally believe its the best fighter jet on the planet right now, so to call it mid is simply a moronic statement.
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One day, I would like to personally meet these Russian simps and understand what happened in their childhood.
 
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batman said:
Fair enough, didn't notice post #329222 wasn't from you since you were the one who replied to my comment.



Firstly, most of the people you are referring arent engineers or are from the engineering community, they are american fanboys who wanna downplay everything russian and make everything american look like the gold standard even though reality is different. Most dont even know how rcs works let alone the other design principles or philosophies behind jets and just wanna berate countries for having different requirements and designing it as per it. Even with all the propoganda, a simple look at the tech and capability of Su57 would make you realize that its easily in the top 4 jets in the world no matter which jet you like although I personally believe its the best fighter jet on the planet right now, so to call it mid is simply a moronic statement.
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Su-57 is designed to kill F-22 and F-35 and that it will do. We have seen how superior Su-30MKI is to American teen series. Su-57 will do the same to both Raptor and Lightning II. Americans know this, that is why F-47 is being developed 'cause America likes to stay whole one generation ahead of the competition.

For our needs though, i.e., to counter Chinese VLO jets, Su-57MKI is sufficient.
 
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Su-57 now comes with the whole shebang. 360 deg UV/IR DAS.

hasvmt10.jpg


None of that F-35 EODAS nonsense anymore.
 
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randomradio said:
Su-57 now comes with the whole shebang. 360 deg UV/IR DAS.

hasvmt10.jpg


None of that F-35 EODAS nonsense anymore.
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It is true that SU 57 is getting better and better but the Biggest Hurdle for India is Russia itself

There are No chances of any ceasefire

And without a ceasefire , its acquisition looks impossible, due to 2 main issues -- CAATSA , Russian Supply chain which is prioritising SU 35 and SU 34 production

Even a Direct import looks difficult
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
It is true that SU 57 is getting better and better but the Biggest Hurdle for India is Russia itself

There are No chances of any ceasefire

And without a ceasefire , its acquisition looks impossible, due to 2 main issues -- CAATSA , Russian Supply chain which is prioritising SU 35 and SU 34 production

Even a Direct import looks difficult
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Exactly what ive been saying. Were not going to get the su57 lmao.
 
lmaoxd said:
Exactly what ive been saying. Were not going to get the su57 lmao.
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Wrong. IAF gets what it wants. They have conveyed to GOI that there is immediate requirement of between 40-80 Su-57M1s and that they prefer a gov-to-gov route. Local production will take place later after looking at AMCA's development timeline.

They procured S-400s from Russia despite CAATSA risk(and are further going for 5 more squadrons), they will get Su-57M1s too. India is an independent country and we do what is best for our interests. America can't do jack about it.

STEPHEN COHEN said:
It is true that SU 57 is getting better and better but the Biggest Hurdle for India is Russia itself

There are No chances of any ceasefire

And without a ceasefire , its acquisition looks impossible, due to 2 main issues -- CAATSA , Russian Supply chain which is prioritising SU 35 and SU 34 production

Even a Direct import looks difficult
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UAC has increased Su-57s production to 20 airframes per year. America will put CAATSA on us for buying Su-57M1 because Russia is at war while they themselves are harbingers of peace, lol.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
UAC has increased Su-57s production to 20 airframes per year. America will put CAATSA on us for buying Su-57M1 because Russia is at war while they themselves are harbingers of peace, lol.
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It will require a lot of Deft Diplomacy for getting CAATSA waivers like Buying C 130 and P 8 I and more Oil

We cannot risk Tejas Engines for Su 57

Meanwhile Russia and Ukraine are both eyeing a Victory

Recently Ukraine has had some good success on the battlefield and this will prevent any acceptance of the ceasefire by Ukraine
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
It will require a lot of Deft Diplomacy for getting CAATSA waivers like Buying C 130 and P 8 I and more Oil

We cannot risk Tejas Engines for Su 57

Meanwhile Russia and Ukraine are both eyeing a Victory

Recently Ukraine has had some good success on the battlefield and this will prevent any acceptance of the ceasefire by Ukraine
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While US does want to bring India more in its camp and sell its weapons to us, it doesn't want to completely alienate us for buying Russian weapons as well. Remember that they need us too to keep China in check. We will continue to buy Russian weapons despite all US antics, threats and pressure. Mark it.
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
It is true that SU 57 is getting better and better but the Biggest Hurdle for India is Russia itself

There are No chances of any ceasefire

And without a ceasefire , its acquisition looks impossible, due to 2 main issues -- CAATSA , Russian Supply chain which is prioritising SU 35 and SU 34 production

Even a Direct import looks difficult
Click to expand...

We are not going for Su-57. Instead there's potential for two-seat Su-57 in the future in case our own programs are delayed (2030+ decision, 2035+ fielding). Ukraine war will be long over by then.
 
Ashwin said:
That post was asking you for an explanation, but you are incapable of providing one.
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Like I said, the basics of debating 101 is that the one making the audacious claim should prove it, not the other way around. It takes exponentially higher time and energy to disprove something than to prove it. This is basic knowledge and common sense. If he is willing to give any facts, evidence or some kind of proof for his claims, I'll happily debunk them like always. Don't expect others to do the research for you, I'm mostly here to vibe read through these topics I find interest, if someone types that the earth is flat or we are surrounded by an ice wall, don't expect me or others to use our time and energy to gather different proof, evidence, examples, analogy etc to disprove it. If you want to claim something audacious, please prove it instead of expecting others to do the hard work.
 
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