MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 44 16.4%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 205 76.5%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 11 4.1%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 2 0.7%

  • Total voters
    268
  • Poll closed .
Meanwhile, work on the "possible indigenisation of the Rafale" to the extent of 50 percent or more, has begun. The IAF had sent a Statement of Case for the purchase of 114 Rafales (roughly 6 squadrons), but the defence ministry had said it was "incomplete" as more was necessary about the quantum of indigenisation involved. Importantly, highly placed sources said that Dassault, the manufactuers of the Rafale, will naturally have to agree and serious negotiations will be required. The defence ministry had added that cursory 10-15 percent indigenisation in the age of atmanirbharata would not be adequate and this was the opportunity for a greater Make in India effort. This could mean setting up facilities in India and including Indian made equipment, including sensors, in the Rafale aircraft.

 
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Décryptage - La désinformation au service de la compétition industrielle ?​

https://www.defense.gouv.fr/desinformation/nos-analyses-froid/decryptage-desinformation-au-service-competition-industrielle

Analysis - Disinformation in the service of industrial competition?

In the context of India's SINDOOR operation in Pakistan in May 2025, the French RAFALE was the target of a virulent disinformation campaign aimed at making people believe that the Pakistani Air Force had shot down several of these multi-role fighter jets using Chinese equipment.

These coordinated and sometimes opportunistic information manoeuvres illustrate our competitors' willingness to exploit any event that could damage the image of France and its armed forces.

Why spread such a narrative?

This information campaign had three objectives:
  • To discredit the RAFALE and the French arms industry;
  • To undermine the Franco-Indian partnership;
  • To promote Chinese weapons competing with the RAFALE.
France and India have built a lasting and solid partnership. India's order for 90 RAFALE F4s and the option on 24 RAFALE F5s is an example of the trust that binds the two states.

Many other nations also trust French expertise to equip their armed forces. In addition to India, the RAFALE already equips or will soon equip Serbia, Egypt, Greece, Croatia, the United Arab Emirates and Indonesia. In a competitive environment, both in terms of perceptions and on the arms markets Faced with this dynamic, the RAFALE has become a prime target.

At the end of November, the US Senate's US-China Economic and Security Review Commission unveiled, in a public report, the role of pro-Chinese information systems in denigrating the RAFALE and promoting Chinese equipment, notably the J-10 and J-35 aircraft.

How did these pro-Chinese and pro-Pakistani information systems operate?

Official announcement (without proof)

The Pakistani armed forces claim to have shot down five enemy aircraft, including three RAFALE aircraft, but provide no evidence to support this statement.

Creation of a misleading visual narrative
AI-generated or misappropriated images, including images from video games or flight simulators, are being shared on social media by Pakistani and Indian accounts, some with high visibility, others created for the occasion, to support this narrative. Around 100 accounts created around 7 May were detected, revealing the inauthentic nature of the amplification.

Media amplification
Chinese state media and Pakistani press outlets picked up on this narrative, helping to give it a certain credibility.

Opportunistic relay

Content and narratives were opportunistically relayed and amplified by pro-Russian and pro-Iranian information spheres.

Diplomatic exploitation of the narrative
Chinese representatives, diplomats, defence attachés, etc. raised this subject with their counterparts from countries likely to purchase Chinese equipment, presenting it as proof of the effectiveness of Chinese weapons.

Why is this information campaign problematic?

It undermines French technological credibility:


By spreading false information about the RAFALE's performance, China is seeking to weaken the reputation for technological excellence of the French aeronautics industry. However, in the field of defence, confidence in the reliability and technical superiority of equipment is crucial. Manipulating this perception amounts to artificially reducing the perceived value of the RAFALE, to the detriment of France and its armed forces.

This trivialises lies as a weapon of disinformation:

Competitors orchestrate information campaigns in which the truth is deliberately distorted. These campaigns aim to trigger emotional reactions, mostly negative, in order to influence public opinion in an irrational way.

The absence of substantiated and verified information about a fact should prompt the public to verify it.


Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
 
Not serious.
Israeli helmet and towed decoys are already integrated on Rafale.
SPICE and ASTRA are already on track (or near to) to be integrated.
As always with India it is the price that hurts, because you need to made new anechoic chamber trials, Spectra fine tunning and air tests for every new weapon integrated (or a new mix of weapons).

and Hammer guided bomb is not a MBDA product.
 

Thales awards SFO Technologies RBE2 radar wired structures contract for Rafale under Make in India​

  • Published15 Dec 2025
  • First major order for high-value, technologically advanced complex wired structures —designed to withstand harsh environmental constraints— to be produced in India for the Dassault Aviation Rafale programme.
  • This strengthens Thales’ long-term partnership with SFO Technologies and enhances India’s indigenous defence manufacturing capabilities.
  • It supports India’s strategic localisation goals, expanding expertise from precision machining and wiring to complex systems integration.

15 December 2025, Bengaluru, India: Thales, in partnership with SFO Technologies, has taken a significant step forward in supporting India’s strategic vision for self-reliance in defence manufacturing. The latest contract, awarded for the production of high-value, technically advanced complex wired structures of the RBE2 AESA Radar of the Indian Rafale, reinforces SFO Technologies’ long-standing expertise and enduring partnership with Thales across multiple major programmes.

This first order marks an important milestone in Thales’ Make in India strategy for the localisation of advanced radar systems, which is expected to boost local manufacturing capabilities for critical Rafale sub-systems supplied to the Indian Armed Forces. Following the order of 26 Rafale aircraft for the Indian Navy, Thales, as a proud Dassault Aviation Rafale team member, continues to execute its ambitious localisation roadmap, partnering with the aeronautics and defence ecosystem in India. The scope of expertise delivered through this partnership ranges from precision machining and assembly/wiring to electronics, microelectronics, and complex system integration.

“This partnership with SFO Technologies reflects our steadfast commitment to the Make in India initiative. Through decades of strong local collaborations, we have consistently invested in building indigenous capabilities and fostering world-class expertise within the Indian ecosystem. SFO Technologies has demonstrated exceptional innovation and reliability in every project we undertake together. We are delighted to continue reinforcing our partnership, setting new benchmarks for quality and operational excellence in support of India’s self-reliance ambitions.” Philippe Knoche, SEVP Operations and Performance, Thales.
“We are honoured of Thales’ continued trust in SFO Technologies, and proud to contribute towards deploying new expertise in the Indian ecosystem, while actively taking part in the equipment production for the Rafale India. Quality and punctuality will be our priorities to satisfy our customers, as usual.” N. Jehangir, Chairman & Managing Director, SFO Technologies.
About Thales

Thales (Euronext Paris: HO) is a global leader in advanced technologies for the Defence, Aerospace, and Cyber & Digital sectors. Its portfolio of innovative products and services addresses several major challenges: sovereignty, security, sustainability and inclusion.

The Group invests more than €4 billion per year in Research & Development in key areas, particularly for critical environments, such as Artificial Intelligence, cybersecurity, quantum and cloud technologies. Thales has more than 83,000 employees in 68 countries. In 2024, the Group generated sales of €20.6 billion.

About Thales in India

Present in India since 1953, Thales is headquartered in Noida and has other operational offices and sites spread across Delhi, Gurugram, Bengaluru and Mumbai, among others. Over 2300 employees are working with Thales and its joint ventures in India. Since the beginning, Thales has been playing an essential role in India’s growth story by sharing its technologies and expertise in Defence, Aerospace and Cyber & Digital sectors. Thales has two engineering competence centres (ECCs) in India - one in Noida focused on Cyber & Digital business, while the one in Bengaluru focuses on hardware, software and systems engineering capabilities for both the civil and defence sectors, serving global needs. Thales has also established an MRO (Maintenance, Repair & Overhaul) facility in Gurugram to provide comprehensive avionics maintenance and repair services to Indian airlines.

About SFO Technologies

SFO, a NeST Group company, is a 35-year-old high-tech, end-to-end solution provider, headquartered in Kochi, India. With 22 factories across the globe and over 8,000 employees, SFO offers hardware design, software development, and vertically integrated manufacturing of mission-critical and life-critical equipment for the defense, aerospace, space, healthcare, industrial, and transportation sectors.
 

Thales awards SFO Technologies RBE2 radar wired structures contract for Rafale under Make in India​

  • Published15 Dec 2025
  • First major order for high-value, technologically advanced complex wired structures —designed to withstand harsh environmental constraints— to be produced in India for the Dassault Aviation Rafale programme.
  • This strengthens Thales’ long-term partnership with SFO Technologies and enhances India’s indigenous defence manufacturing capabilities.
  • It supports India’s strategic localisation goals, expanding expertise from precision machining and wiring to complex systems integration.

15 December 2025, Bengaluru, India: Thales, in partnership with SFO Technologies, has taken a significant step forward in supporting India’s strategic vision for self-reliance in defence manufacturing. The latest contract, awarded for the production of high-value, technically advanced complex wired structures of the RBE2 AESA Radar of the Indian Rafale, reinforces SFO Technologies’ long-standing expertise and enduring partnership with Thales across multiple major programmes.

This first order marks an important milestone in Thales’ Make in India strategy for the localisation of advanced radar systems, which is expected to boost local manufacturing capabilities for critical Rafale sub-systems supplied to the Indian Armed Forces. Following the order of 26 Rafale aircraft for the Indian Navy, Thales, as a proud Dassault Aviation Rafale team member, continues to execute its ambitious localisation roadmap, partnering with the aeronautics and defence ecosystem in India. The scope of expertise delivered through this partnership ranges from precision machining and assembly/wiring to electronics, microelectronics, and complex system integration.



About Thales

Thales (Euronext Paris: HO) is a global leader in advanced technologies for the Defence, Aerospace, and Cyber & Digital sectors. Its portfolio of innovative products and services addresses several major challenges: sovereignty, security, sustainability and inclusion.

The Group invests more than €4 billion per year in Research & Development in key areas, particularly for critical environments, such as Artificial Intelligence, cybersecurity, quantum and cloud technologies. Thales has more than 83,000 employees in 68 countries. In 2024, the Group generated sales of €20.6 billion.

About Thales in India

Present in India since 1953, Thales is headquartered in Noida and has other operational offices and sites spread across Delhi, Gurugram, Bengaluru and Mumbai, among others. Over 2300 employees are working with Thales and its joint ventures in India. Since the beginning, Thales has been playing an essential role in India’s growth story by sharing its technologies and expertise in Defence, Aerospace and Cyber & Digital sectors. Thales has two engineering competence centres (ECCs) in India - one in Noida focused on Cyber & Digital business, while the one in Bengaluru focuses on hardware, software and systems engineering capabilities for both the civil and defence sectors, serving global needs. Thales has also established an MRO (Maintenance, Repair & Overhaul) facility in Gurugram to provide comprehensive avionics maintenance and repair services to Indian airlines.

About SFO Technologies

SFO, a NeST Group company, is a 35-year-old high-tech, end-to-end solution provider, headquartered in Kochi, India. With 22 factories across the globe and over 8,000 employees, SFO offers hardware design, software development, and vertically integrated manufacturing of mission-critical and life-critical equipment for the defense, aerospace, space, healthcare, industrial, and transportation sectors.

This Following News is More Direct and To the Point 🤣

 
This Following News is More Direct and To the Point 🤣

The AESA radar for Rafale fighter jets will be manufactured in India

We cannot copy the article, but we can comment on it:

Thales has signed a contract with Indian company SFO Technologies to produce complex cable structures for the RBE2 AESA radar used on Rafale jets in India. This step is an integral part of the Make in India initiative to localise advanced defence technologies on Indian soil. This is not just a contract to manufacture parts:

these are sophisticated components for the Rafale's main radar system. it marks a significant step forward towards Indian production of critical subsystems, not just minor parts.

In brief, the article highlights:
  • The high technological level of locally manufactured components.
  • The integration of Indian industry into the global defence network around the Rafale.
  • The reduction of dependence on imports for advanced systems.
  • This is a truly strategic level of localisation, not ‘secondary wiring’.
SFO Technologies does not just ‘blow and wire’. It will produce complex structures designed to:
  • withstand rigorous environmental stresses,
  • integrate into an active combat radar system.
This validates the ‘Make-in-India’ horizon for the Rafale more broadly:

This contract is the first major one of its kind in the Rafale programme in India, but it is not isolated. It is part of a trend that can also be seen in other reports:

Dassault is offering up to 60% local manufacturing for MRFA (a programme for 114 Rafale aircraft) with a final assembly line in India. Radar modules (transmit/receive) have been produced in India since 2024 as part of a partnership with Bharat Electronics (BEL). The Thales–SFO contract is therefore a key step (and not an isolated act) in a trajectory towards increasing autonomy for the Rafale chain in India.
 
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The Franco-Indian duo

The duo will not win everywhere, but it will win where:
  • sovereignty matters
  • duration matters
  • military credibility is sought after
China is beginning to cause concern: yes, the Franco-Indian duo will be in direct competition with China in the South:

Not on price, not on volume, but on sovereignty, credibility and strategic autonomy.

It is asymmetrical competition, and that is precisely why it is dangerous for Beijing.

The drone is no longer a weapon: it is a grammar. For 20 years, the West has seen the drone as a sensor, precision munition, an appendage to manned aviation. The war in Ukraine has shown something else: drones have become a syntax of combat: reconnaissance, strikes, saturation, deception, electronic warfare, industrial attrition.

It is no longer a system, it is a language. The moment when everything changes: Ukraine 2022–2025. Three truths have emerged. Mass beats perfection:

A €3,000 drone that destroys a €3 million system changes the economic logic of war. Russia, Ukraine, and then all observers understood that victory depends on the ability to produce, lose, and replace quickly.

The decision-making cycle collapses: drones shorten the detection => decision => strike cycle from minutes to seconds. Combat becomes tactical, decentralised and algorithmic.

The sky becomes saturated; there is no longer ‘air superiority’ but rather the management of a permanently hostile environment.

Three models of drone power

China:
industrial saturation: mass production, standardisation, civil-military integration, export without political constraints

China does not sell ‘drones’; it sells aerial submersion capability, ideal for authoritarian or fragile states.

United States: drones as multipliers of existing systems: Loyal Wingman, advanced ISR, integration into network-centric combat, heavy software dependency, high performance, expensive, dependent, not easily exportable outside the immediate circle.

Emerging model: drones as tactical autonomy

The Franco-Indian model (in development) has not yet been formalised, but it already exists in practice.

Key principle:

Drones must be simple, modular, locally producible and consumable.

India contributes: volume, frugal engineering, acceptance of loss, experience of hybrid conflict

France brings: sensors, electronic warfare, system integration, multi-environment doctrine.

Result:

Consumable tactical drones, loitering munitions, rugged ISR drones, sober C2 systems.

This appeals to the Global South because drones avoid dependence on Western aircraft, circumvent embargoes, do not require a heavy aeronautical elite, and can be produced locally.

For a country in the Global South, drones provide immediate access to tactical deterrence.

The real shock for Western armies
  • Drones have highlighted an uncomfortable truth:
  • Western stocks are insufficient
  • industrial production is too slow
  • doctrine is still ‘platform-centric’
  • warfare is becoming industrial before it is technological
The war in Ukraine reveals a brutal fact: a modern army does not lose because it is technologically inferior, it loses because it cannot replace what it consumes.

Rafale + drones: not an opposition, a hierarchy

The common mistake is to think that drones will replace aircraft. The reality is that the aircraft becomes the conductor, the drone becomes the mass, and the missile becomes the punctuation.

A Rafale without drones is vulnerable. Drones without Rafale are blind at high intensity.

And tomorrow:
  • semi-autonomous swarms
  • expendable drones
  • local embedded AI
  • decentralised production
  • ‘acceptable loss’ doctrine
Superiority will no longer come from the best platform but from the ability to lose without collapsing.

Conclusion: China has understood mass, the United States has mastered the system, and the Franco-Indian duo could master the balance. Not domination, but resilience.

And in the world to come, resilience will beat perfection.

If Ukraine ‘enters’ a Franco-Indian axis through the door of drones, with Western support of the Rafale/Caesar type, the implications are major. The Rafale/Caesar exchange for drones is Rafale = brain, drones = mass, artillery = hammer

For Ukraine: a shift from survival to industrial sovereignty; for France: a power multiplier at an acceptable cost; for India: a huge opportunity... but maximum caution. Indeed, India does not want to be perceived as an anti-Russian co-belligerent. India could accept a France-Ukraine-India triangle on drones, but in a discreet, modular, non-ideological mode.
 
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india is not going to accept ukraine beccause they dont need anything ukraine produces right now apart from commodities.
Maybe when peace prevails india can have some good financial relations with ukraine but a lot of the things india imported from ukraine(the ship engines) are now going to be bought from either lockheed martin or rolls royce.
If india needs drones we would go with russia because the ukrainian conflict has shown us that russia has mastered mass production of drones of pretty decent quality. We also have our own Lancet equivalents in the nagastra series and a geran equivalent in the sheshang. FPV drones are also not that hard to mass produce.
Ukraine will also be going through a massive financial crisis at the end of this war so the EU and the US would have to first stabilize the economy before actually inviting external partners.

What india will do is trade extensively with ukraine for normal commodities(like the above mentioned sunflower oil) and might even establish a FTA with ukraine and provide it with indian refined diesel(as it is doing today-i think india is the largest supplier of diesel to ukraine lol)

I do sincerely hope for the betterment of the Ukraine and its people but India will not have a large scale military agreement with ukraine in the near future
The Franco-Indian duo
The duo will not win everywhere, but it will win where:
  • sovereignty matters
  • duration matters
  • military credibility is sought after
China is beginning to cause concern: yes, the Franco-Indian duo will be in direct competition with China in the South:

Not on price, not on volume, but on sovereignty, credibility and strategic autonomy.

It is asymmetrical competition, and that is precisely why it is dangerous for Beijing.

The drone is no longer a weapon: it is a grammar. For 20 years, the West has seen the drone as a sensor, precision munition, an appendage to manned aviation. The war in Ukraine has shown something else: drones have become a syntax of combat: reconnaissance, strikes, saturation, deception, electronic warfare, industrial attrition.

It is no longer a system, it is a language. The moment when everything changes: Ukraine 2022–2025. Three truths have emerged. Mass beats perfection:

A €3,000 drone that destroys a €3 million system changes the economic logic of war. Russia, Ukraine, and then all observers understood that victory depends on the ability to produce, lose, and replace quickly.

The decision-making cycle collapses: drones shorten the detection => decision => strike cycle from minutes to seconds. Combat becomes tactical, decentralised and algorithmic.

The sky becomes saturated; there is no longer ‘air superiority’ but rather the management of a permanently hostile environment.

Three models of drone power

China:
industrial saturation: mass production, standardisation, civil-military integration, export without political constraints

China does not sell ‘drones’; it sells aerial submersion capability, ideal for authoritarian or fragile states.

United States: drones as multipliers of existing systems: Loyal Wingman, advanced ISR, integration into network-centric combat, heavy software dependency, high performance, expensive, dependent, not easily exportable outside the immediate circle.

Emerging model: drones as tactical autonomy

The Franco-Indian model (in development) has not yet been formalised, but it already exists in practice.

Key principle:

Drones must be simple, modular, locally producible and consumable.

India contributes: volume, frugal engineering, acceptance of loss, experience of hybrid conflict

France brings: sensors, electronic warfare, system integration, multi-environment doctrine.

Result:

Consumable tactical drones, loitering munitions, rugged ISR drones, sober C2 systems.

This appeals to the Global South because drones avoid dependence on Western aircraft, circumvent embargoes, do not require a heavy aeronautical elite, and can be produced locally.

For a country in the Global South, drones provide immediate access to tactical deterrence.

The real shock for Western armies
  • Drones have highlighted an uncomfortable truth:
  • Western stocks are insufficient
  • industrial production is too slow
  • doctrine is still ‘platform-centric’
  • warfare is becoming industrial before it is technological
The war in Ukraine reveals a brutal fact: a modern army does not lose because it is technologically inferior, it loses because it cannot replace what it consumes.

Rafale + drones: not an opposition, a hierarchy

The common mistake is to think that drones will replace aircraft. The reality is that the aircraft becomes the conductor, the drone becomes the mass, and the missile becomes the punctuation.

A Rafale without drones is vulnerable. Drones without Rafale are blind at high intensity.

And tomorrow:
  • semi-autonomous swarms
  • expendable drones
  • local embedded AI
  • decentralised production
  • ‘acceptable loss’ doctrine
Superiority will no longer come from the best platform but from the ability to lose without collapsing.

Conclusion: China has understood mass, the United States has mastered the system, and the Franco-Indian duo could master the balance. Not domination, but resilience.

And in the world to come, resilience will beat perfection.

If Ukraine ‘enters’ a Franco-Indian axis through the door of drones, with Western support of the Rafale/Caesar type, the implications are major. The Rafale/Caesar exchange for drones is Rafale = brain, drones = mass, artillery = hammer

For Ukraine: a shift from survival to industrial sovereignty; for France: a power multiplier at an acceptable cost; for India: a huge opportunity... but maximum caution. Indeed, India does not want to be perceived as an anti-Russian co-belligerent. India could accept a France-Ukraine-India triangle on drones, but in a discreet, modular, non-ideological mode.
 
india is not going to accept ukraine beccause they dont need anything ukraine produces right now apart from commodities.
Maybe when peace prevails india can have some good financial relations with ukraine but a lot of the things india imported from ukraine(the ship engines) are now going to be bought from either lockheed martin or rolls royce.
If india needs drones we would go with russia because the ukrainian conflict has shown us that russia has mastered mass production of drones of pretty decent quality. We also have our own Lancet equivalents in the nagastra series and a geran equivalent in the sheshang. FPV drones are also not that hard to mass produce.
Ukraine will also be going through a massive financial crisis at the end of this war so the EU and the US would have to first stabilize the economy before actually inviting external partners.

What india will do is trade extensively with ukraine for normal commodities(like the above mentioned sunflower oil) and might even establish a FTA with ukraine and provide it with indian refined diesel(as it is doing today-i think india is the largest supplier of diesel to ukraine lol)

I do sincerely hope for the betterment of the Ukraine and its people but India will not have a large scale military agreement with ukraine in the near future
The Franco-Indian duo
Key Ukrainian expertise:
  • frugal design
  • 3- to 6-week innovation cycles
  • real-time adaptation to Russian jamming
  • experience against a high-level EW adversary
  • survival tactics
What France provides
  • Rafale (brain)
  • Caesar (fire)
  • SAM (protection)
  • system integration
What France receives
  • mass drone capability
  • ongoing feedback
  • industrial resilience
  • high-intensity credibility
What Ukraine gains
  • immediate survival
  • industrial partner status
  • access to the post-war period
What India gains
  • doctrinal acceleration
  • access to real combat
  • global Southern leadership
  • mass production drone
 
Key Ukrainian expertise:
  • frugal design
  • 3- to 6-week innovation cycles
  • real-time adaptation to Russian jamming
  • experience against a high-level EW adversary
  • survival tactics
What France provides
  • Rafale (brain)
  • Caesar (fire)
  • SAM (protection)
  • system integration
What France receives
  • mass drone capability
  • ongoing feedback
  • industrial resilience
  • high-intensity credibility
What Ukraine gains
  • immediate survival
  • industrial partner status
  • access to the post-war period
What India gains
  • doctrinal acceleration
  • access to real combat
  • global Southern leadership
  • mass production drone
Key Ukrainian expertise:
  • frugal design
  • 3- to 6-week innovation cycles
  • real-time adaptation to Russian jamming
  • experience against a high-level EW adversary
  • survival tactics
This is somethings the russians can give us as well and since they are arguably doing a relatively better in the current battlefield in ukraine(using rubicon and other such forces that have been very useful for hitting ukranian logistics etc).
What India gains
  • doctrinal acceleration
  • access to real combat
  • global Southern leadership
  • mass production drone
1. Im confused and need more details
2. Russia can give this to us as well.
3. China is the leader and India is second. This is not going to change for a long time until maybe the 2070 where the Indian economy is projected to be close to theirs(keyword projection so very highly susceptible to changes, highly likely we will never reach such heights due to the nature of our country)
4. If india cannot mass produce its own drones with its own design in house in the country then we might as well throw in the towel and be satisfied toying with pakistan(who would be making their own drones in house) and forget about ever resisting China.
I understand that ukraine has a lot of expertise in this but so does russia and the russian model is arguably better for india because they make significantly more drones and they also make more high tech drones as well. Ofc both the countries extensively use chinese parts which is something india needs to make on its own.

What France provides
  • Rafale (brain)
  • Caesar (fire)
  • SAM (protection)
  • system integration
Im going to assume this is all for ukraine. India will not directly fund ukranian defense like rafales or ceasers or SAMs. We Will help ukraine by buying a lot of commercial commodities from them but India will not get directly involved like being part of a 3 way military deal clearly drafted for ukraine.

Post war ukraine will be chaos during which we will give ukraine our diplomatic support and a strong arm(in the form of commercial imports) on which they could lean on while they rebuild but thats it.

India gains a LOT from partnering with france and making our relations stronger but doesnt gain anything significant from ukraine that it cant gain from an established partner like russia.
 
Why chaotic ‘Indian time’ favours the Rafale (and disqualifies promising programmes)

The fact that the Indian Air Force is now seeking to avoid ‘logistical chaos’ and prioritise rapid delivery is not a procedural detail, but a strategic admission. It means that the IAF has reached a point where systemic risk has become more dangerous than marginal technical imperfection. In this context, ‘Indian time’ — characterised by unstable political compromises, bureaucratic reversals and protracted decisions — is no longer a variable that can be incorporated into a long and fragile programme.

India-France G2G Deal for 114 Rafales Imminent As IAF Seeks to Avoid Logistic Chaos, Prioritises Delivery Over Protracted Trials​


https://defence.!n/threads/india-france-g2g-deal-for-114-rafales-imminent-as-iaf-seeks-to-avoid-logistic-chaos-prioritises-delivery-over-protracted-trials.16276/[/URL]

This is precisely where abstract discussions of capabilities clash with reality.

A programme based on projected capabilities, future standards, conditional updates or material developments that have not yet been integrated is structurally incompatible with a chaotic decision-making environment. It assumes political continuity, budgetary stability and governance discipline that India has never guaranteed over time for complex foreign programmes.

Conversely, the Rafale is now a system that has already been assimilated by the Indian ecosystem. It is no longer a promise, but an operational fact: trained pilots, established doctrines, known MCO chains, existing infrastructure, accumulated feedback. The fleet extension does not introduce a new aircraft, it reduces the overall entropy of the system. This is exactly what the expression ‘avoid logistical chaos’ means.

This point is essential, as it directly refers to the difference between actual capacity and claimed capacity. In the F-35 debate, we see an aircraft presented as ‘formidable’ on the basis of final capabilities, future blocks, thermal solutions currently being defined and future software. But this narrative assumes that the customer is willing to enter into a long, linear and disciplined timeframe — something India is no longer prepared to do.

The IAF is therefore sending a very clear message:
we prefer an aircraft that we know, that we know how to maintain and that we can receive quickly, rather than a system whose full capability is still in the future. This is not an aesthetic or ideological judgement, it is a risk management decision.

The choice of a G2G agreement is part of this logic. It is not a question of circumventing competition for political reasons, but of bypassing a process that has become unmanageable in a context of high regional tension. The G2G locks in the timetable, reduces the number of players capable of blocking the decision, and transforms a military purchase into a bilateral strategic commitment. Here again, the Rafale is perfectly suited to this mode of acquisition, because it is already qualified, already accepted, already integrated.

In reality, this case perfectly illustrates what we call capability propaganda:


And India today votes not with brochures or PowerPoint slides, but with its constraints, its deadlines, its squadron shortages and its geopolitical tensions. The Rafale is not chosen because it is ‘perfect’, but because it is robust in the face of chaos.

This is a distinction that many refuse to see — and yet it is often what determines the actual outcome of major armament programmes.
 
Last edited:
The ministry will also expedite the acquisition of 114 multi-role fighter aircraft (MRFA) from France under the “Make in India” rubric, the people added.

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), headed by defence minister Rajnath Singh, this week also cleared the purchase of 36 more Meteor air-to-air missiles for Rafale fighters from France. This follows the approval for 280 long- and short-range missiles for the S-400 system from Russia.

Groundwork has begun for the proposed acquisition of 114 MRFA for the IAF from France, starting with decisions on indigenous content integration. With India already hosting a maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facility for Rafale fighters, acquiring 114 more such platforms is seen as logical over opening a new stream.

 

While the final numbers of the jets to be acquired are under discussion, the IAF has a projected requirement of at least 114 modern combat aircraft.

Sources said that the acquisition will require a formal clearance by the Defence Acquisition Council, followed by cost negotiations and finally an approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security. Adequate provisions in the annual budget will also be needed. Last year, India signed a contract for 24 naval variants of the aircraft and has a benchmarked price available for the larger deal that is likely to run into tens of billions of euros.
 
Rafale: the winning strategy of step-by-step evolution

The Rafale evolves step by step, without disruption: the F5 standard takes this controlled modernisation approach even further.

No revolution. Just a well-oiled machine. Since it entered service, the Rafale has been advancing in successive stages. A step-by-step modernisation, through ‘standards’ that integrate new technological building blocks without breaking the existing structure. The latest, the F5 standard, expected in 2030, takes this controlled evolution approach even further.

An architecture designed to last

From the outset, the Rafale was designed to evolve. No leaps into the unknown, but continuous progress. Each standard includes a set of hardware or software improvements, validated by the French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA) before being deployed in the armed forces.
This strategy avoids capability gaps and limits additional costs. The aircraft's open structure allows sensors, weapons, software and communications equipment to be integrated over time, either through retrofitting or new production.

From F1 to F4: two decades of continuous integration

The Rafale F1, delivered to the Navy in 2004, was only capable of air-to-air combat. The F2 (2006) paved the way for air-to-ground capabilities. The F3 (2008) made it possible to perform several missions during a single flight. The F3-R (2018) integrated an AESA radar, the Meteor missile, a TALIOS pod and an enhanced SPECTRA.

The F4 standard will be rolled out in three stages. The F4.1, certified in 2023, will feature a Scorpion helmet-mounted display, a 1,000 kg AASM bomb, and improvements to the RBE2 radar, OSF and SPECTRA system. F4.2, currently in the testing phase, will boost connectivity with SATCOM, Link 16 Block 2, the TRAGEDAC system, CAPOEIRA and a CONTACT software radio. It will also add predictive maintenance. F4.3, scheduled for 2026, will integrate the MICA NG missile, a digitised version of SPECTRA and an enhanced TALIOS pod.

F5: the next step

The F5, scheduled for 2030, aims to reach a new level. The objective is to enable the Rafale to operate in contested environments, including nuclear missions. The centrepiece is the RBE2 XG radar. Based on gallium nitride (GaN), it promises a 50 to 70% increase in range, better resistance to jamming and enhanced electronic warfare capabilities.

The M88 T-REX engine, developed by Safran, will offer 20% more thrust while remaining compatible with current modules. Range will be increased thanks to conformal fuel tanks (CFTs) integrated into the fuselage, without compromising the hardpoints.

Collaborative strikes and swarm warfare

The F5 also heralds a new era in weaponry. It will be able to carry the ASN4G hypersonic missile, the successor to the ASMP-A, designed to penetrate advanced defences at Mach 6 or more. The Smart Cruiser, a tactical swarm engagement missile, will restore SEAD/DEAD capability. Up to 18 can be carried per aircraft thanks to multiple launchers. The RJ10 missile, scheduled for 2035, will complete the arsenal with supersonic anti-radar capability.

The Rafale F5 will no longer fly alone. It will be accompanied by a stealth combat drone, derived from the nEUROn demonstrator. Controlled from the cockpit, it will detect, strike or jam. Mirage 2000 size, M88 engine, internal payload: the man-machine duo is entering the fray. First flight targeted before 2033.

Industrial ramp-up

The French army wants 61 more Rafales. The goal is to reach 286 aircraft, compared to the 225 planned so far. Dassault has set the pace: three aircraft per month by the end of 2024, five in 2025, thanks to the new factory in Mérignac. The 300th aircraft rolled off the production line in October 2025, out of 533 ordered (France and export). India is targeting 90 Rafale F4/F5s, while Iraq is discussing 14. Other prospects are also open.

The Rafale F5 will serve as a stepping stone to the SCAF, the air combat system of the future. It will integrate collaborative combat logic, networked with drones, ISR sensors and ground systems. It will remain compatible with allied systems and those of the GCAP programme (United Kingdom, Japan, Italy). One foot in the present, one eye on 2040.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)