IAF can choose the 177 but the MoD and FM will definitely choose the 177S. Considering how things have turned out in past. If 177S can be pitched successfully, that in itself would be an achievement. Considering the cost of the upgrades and the kits needed, I think that 177S would have a better chance of getting approved. 'Every penny saved is the motto'.Since the inlet diameter is same as that of MKI(905mm), what if IAF chooses 177 engine itself for both MKI UPG. and Su-57I. With 108KN dry and 158KN wet thrust, MKI UPG. would match even F-22 Raptor in kinematics
PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
117 is the engine varaint specifically developed for the su57 while the 117S was for the su35. unless india is buying the su57 i highly doubt we will get the tech for it. 117S is the one we want as well since its a direct upgrade to the al31-FP
although i still believe buying the su57 would be a mistake and detrimental to our foreign relations, i do have to say that the F35s 0.001 RCS value is the minimum possible RCS in the most optimal lab based conditions. the entire purpose of that number is to look good on a document. while it almost certainly has better rcs than the su57 its not that much lower lol. The RCS of the su57M1 is not the biggest issue per se(especially not with the advancement in radars). Its the fact that it is russia who developed the system and the fact that china( a country well known for its espionage) is very buddy-buddy with russia. So there is no saying what info and to which extent china has.
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With such exposed engine inlet...... Even close IRST won't have much of a effect.
At least SU-57 stealthy cruise missile S-71K has a low RCS of 0.007 to 0.01 mt²........... Still higher than F-35
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Of course the final decision rests on GOI's shoulders, but let me tell you an open secret; IAF was always interested in Type-30 engines when they were part of the FGFA program and the eventual plan was to to put all the tech(including engines) developed for FGFA into the MKI MLU program. Now that the Russians have cleared 177(a derivative of Type-30) for export in same inlet dimension as MKI, IAF could really be tempted though it may or may not be as drop-fit worthy as 177S or may require little modifications to get into MKI's airframe.
So, at the moment, yes 177S looks like the logical choice for MKI UPG. program but as they say, never say never, my friend
What will be specific fuel utilisation for this engine, ie 117s with respect to the al31 we using now? If its higher, that will be the obvious scenario by seeing the huge uprate in thrust i dont think IAF will choose 117s. It will uprate operational cost & reduce the range.Since the inlet diameter is same as that of MKI(905mm), what if IAF chooses 177 engine itself for both MKI UPG. and Su-57I
Another query is,will MKI needs any structural modifications to handle this humongous thrust?
117S(AL-41F1-S) is a different engine. Here we're talking about two engines derived from Type-30(AL-51F1) engines dubbed 177 and 177S. Both are available in same inlet size as MKI, i.e., 905mm. AL-51F has bigger 932mm inlet diameter. Difference is that 177 has serrated flat nozzles, more power and is 20kgs heavier at 1550kgs while 177S has round serrated nozzles and has less power. Both their service life of 6000 hours and SFC of below 0.67 is way more superior to AL-31FP. Also good news is that both these engines are supercruise oriented. Let us see what we choose
A
www.thehindu.com
Assuming 100 MKIs are to be refitted with the rest being utilised as back up that leaves only 160 MKIs for whatever new TF we may go in for . IMO the economics doesn't work out .
Are you forgetting this piece of news ?117S(AL-41F1-S) is a different engine. Here we're talking about two engines derived from Type-30(AL-51F1) engines dubbed 177 and 177S. Both are available in same inlet size as MKI, i.e., 905mm. AL-51F has bigger 932mm inlet diameter. Difference is that 177 has serrated flat nozzles, more power and is 20kgs heavier at 1550kgs while 177S has round serrated nozzles and has less power. Both their service life of 6000 hours and SFC of below 0.67 is way more superior to AL-31FP. Also good news is that both these engines are supercruise oriented. Let us see what we choose
MoD signs â‚ą26,000-crore contract with HAL for 240 SU-30MKI jet engines
Defence Ministry signs â‚ą26,000-crore contract with HAL for 240 AL-31FP aero engines for Su-30MKI aircraft.
Assuming 100 MKIs are to be refitted with the rest being utilised as back up that leaves only 160 MKIs for whatever new TF we may go in for . IMO the economics doesn't work out .
That's potential order of 300+ engines.A
Are you forgetting this piece of news ?
MoD signs â‚ą26,000-crore contract with HAL for 240 SU-30MKI jet engines
Defence Ministry signs â‚ą26,000-crore contract with HAL for 240 AL-31FP aero engines for Su-30MKI aircraft.
Assuming 100 MKIs are to be refitted with the rest being utilised as back up that leaves only 160 MKIs for whatever new TF we may go in for . IMO the economics doesn't work out .
That's why I used "if". Anyways, Russians have offered us Joint-Production rights for Su-57, which means India owning full IP rights(along with the OEM) of the entire jet, not just the engine. So it's part of the plan. What kind of deal is signed has yet to be seen!
There are plans to increase new MKI order size from just 12 to 60-80. Let's wait for more details as both India and Russia are involved with heavy and serious discussions regarding future of Indian air power.A
Are you forgetting this piece of news ?
MoD signs â‚ą26,000-crore contract with HAL for 240 SU-30MKI jet engines
Defence Ministry signs â‚ą26,000-crore contract with HAL for 240 AL-31FP aero engines for Su-30MKI aircraft.
Assuming 100 MKIs are to be refitted with the rest being utilised as back up that leaves only 160 MKIs for whatever new TF we may go in for . IMO the economics doesn't work out .
Also, Russians have offered us both PAK-DA stealth bomber and PAK-DP(Mig-41) 6th gen interceptor as well
@randomradio
Having one FA with 2 different TFs creates a problem of logistics . Moreover there's the not so minor issue of spares. Also the production of the current lot of AL-31 is expected to proceed till 2030-32.
Russia ko bolo pehle khud induct kar le.There are plans to increase new MKI order size from just 12 to 60-80. Let's wait for more details as both India and Russia are involved with heavy and serious discussions regarding future of Indian air power.
Also, Russians have offered us both PAK-DA stealth bomber and PAK-DP(Mig-41) 6th gen interceptor as well
They are just about doing that by increasing the production capability(almost double). Ukraine war and direct use of Su-57 in it has also allowed them to refine its production, updation and war tactics.
Talks are on about local manufacturing of 140 Su-57Is at Nashik plant at the moment. Rest, gotta wait for more details
I hope we don't sign only MoU s when Putin visits India ..
Solid deal has to be done ( i believe will be signed, because we are reducing oil purchase+ Trade deal this month end , we need to support our friend)
But then not too much to attract CATSA..
So Su 30 mki upg and co
Long range AAM for sukhoi
S 400 deal make in India/ additional units.
Is what I think we ll sign this December
Rest I think will be MoU s.
Solid deal has to be done ( i believe will be signed, because we are reducing oil purchase+ Trade deal this month end , we need to support our friend)
But then not too much to attract CATSA..
So Su 30 mki upg and co
Long range AAM for sukhoi
S 400 deal make in India/ additional units.
Is what I think we ll sign this December
Rest I think will be MoU s.
There are plans to increase new MKI order size from just 12 to 60-80. Let's wait for more details as both India and Russia are involved with heavy and serious discussions regarding future of Indian air power.
Also, Russians have offered us both PAK-DA stealth bomber and PAK-DP(Mig-41) 6th gen interceptor as well
Only way we can increase fighter count before 2027-28 time frame @_Anonymous_ mentions is by building more Su 30..
But UPG program timeline is 7 years .
Virupaksa may not be ready for integration in 2-3 years.
Lca mk1A going at accelerated pace is limited by engines availability. So it's already maxed out.
4 squads of Mk1A + 2 squads of Su 30 ( if signed) is the max we can get by 2028 .
Post that post 2028 will be
Second tranche of Mk1A
Su 30 UPG
Marine Rafale.
There is no IF. Joint production means lower freedom than MKI local production. HAL will have to partner with russian company and they will have direct control unlike MKI. Think Brahmos. Zero chance of IP rights that has any value. Delusional fanboy stuff nothing else.