MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 44 16.4%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 205 76.5%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 11 4.1%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 2 0.7%

  • Total voters
    268
  • Poll closed .
The warfare is not plane to plane, its a network against a network.

India did not deploy its own AWACS in may 6th and 7th.
India did not deploy its EW platforms.
India did not do a SEAD or DEAD.
India for the reasons best know to it, did not buy R-37M missile in very long range roles.
We do not know if Meteor was even deployed.

heck given indian air to air missile debris was not found, we do not know if India fighters deployed them.

India did not even consider the possibility of its planes being shot down when it did not cross the LoC.

Its not just the plane but how you fight the conflict too.
Surprising isn't it that even after the brilliant performance of J-17 and J-10 no one will step up and buy them. The only order that came was from the Azeris that had been in discussion for a while. It is almost as if the world knows that India did not do DEAD in advance of Sindoor. However, of course plane bad and IAF bad are easier to write in media or SM.
 
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Surprising isn't it that even after the brilliant performance of J-17 and J-10 no one will step up and buy them. The only order that came was from the Azeris that had been in discussion for a while. It is almost as if the world knows that India did not do DEAD in advance of Sindoor. However, of course plane bad and IAF bad are easier to write in media or SM.
You dont get it...
Performance of a jet is predicated to the opponent.
IAF is a very reluctant opponent.
GoI even more so.
 
You dont get it...
Performance of a jet is predicated to the opponent.
IAF is a very reluctant opponent.
GoI even more so.
I agree to a certain extent. However, to be honest it was naive nature of the MEA that has led to the present situation. It is GoI that is more reluctant in comparison. J-series are no wonder weapon and the same goes for the Rafale. The tactics are adjusted as per political will. What are the lines you will cross and what is your limit is as important as it was a 1000 years ago.

Hence, my sarcastic take : Surprising isn't it that even after the brilliant performance of J-17 and J-10 no one will step up and buy them.
 
There should be realistic expectation from DA when it comes to delivery of FAs. It is difficult to start delivering them before the end of the decade. The deal is unlikely to be signed this year.


Anxiousness aside, this is the current reality of the IAF.
If the Rafales are arriving beyond 2030 as I thought they would , it's useless for our war against China. That apart , if it's indeed arriving post 2030 GoI might as well negotiate for the F5 version.

What's the point in going for an F4 version which you'd have to upgrade immediately after you induct it in your air force ?! That should solve the GaN & MUM-T issue.
 
The warfare is not plane to plane, its a network against a network.

India did not deploy its own AWACS in may 6th and 7th.
India did not deploy its EW platforms.
India did not do a SEAD or DEAD.
India for the reasons best know to it, did not buy R-37M missile in very long range roles.
We do not know if Meteor was even deployed.

heck given indian air to air missile debris was not found, we do not know if India fighters deployed them.

India did not even consider the possibility of its planes being shot down when it did not cross the LoC.

Its not just the plane but how you fight the conflict too.
If true, What an error not to use AWACS in the very first hours of Sindoor ! Do you have evidence ?
 
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If the Rafales are arriving beyond 2030 as I thought they would , it's useless for our war against China. That apart , if it's indeed arriving post 2030 GoI might as well negotiate for the F5 version.

What's the point in going for an F4 version which you'd have to upgrade immediately after you induct it in your air force ?! That should solve the GaN & MUM-T issue.
F5 is not a reality so far.
Even F4 is not fully deployed.
But India is weel informed about the Rafale strong road map, and they know that any brand new F4 may be quite easily upgraded to F5.
 
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If the Rafales are arriving beyond 2030 as I thought they would , it's useless for our war against China. That apart , if it's indeed arriving post 2030 GoI might as well negotiate for the F5 version.

What's the point in going for an F4 version which you'd have to upgrade immediately after you induct it in your air force ?! That should solve the GaN & MUM-T issue.
MoD wants a private sector fighter manufacturer and only to do it is Rafale production in India.

That said, we can deploy them for Pakistan front for all we can care about them. AMCA isn't getting inducted even by 2035 given the new timelines given by these clowns everyday. Let alone for CCAs and stealth drones. People should give up dreaming about fighting PLA, they can steamroll Arunachal and Ladakh whenever it wants.
 
That said, we can deploy them for Pakistan front for all we can care about them. AMCA isn't getting inducted even by 2035 given the new timelines given by these clowns everyday. Let alone for CCAs and stealth drones. People should give up dreaming about fighting PLA, they can steamroll Arunachal and Ladakh whenever it wants.
Anyone who at this point wishes to compare the plans of induction as well as fleet status of IAF to the PLAAF is absolutely delusional. I would advise them to let go of this as quickly as possible. Build a fleet to suit your needs and try to get the fleet size back on track. If this basic aspect can be adhered to, that would be a significant step forward.
 
MoD wants a private sector fighter manufacturer and only to do it is Rafale production in India.

That said, we can deploy them for Pakistan front for all we can care about them. AMCA isn't getting inducted even by 2035 given the new timelines given by these clowns everyday. Let alone for CCAs and stealth drones. People should give up dreaming about fighting PLA, they can steamroll Arunachal and Ladakh whenever it wants.
If they can steamroll Arunachal & Ladakh whenever they want, they should have done that already as per your claims.
Clearly they haven't.
 
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I don't think we know the extent of depth PLA has in integration of technology. And it's not just radars or networked system, jets etc.. but even at the infantry level.. I won't be surprised if they have robo rats, cats , dogs and human like robots integrated with a unit.
Then there's exoskeleton for individual soldiers. Chinese are progressing at deep tech fastly now. There investment of 50 years straight are now bearing tremendous fruit for them.

Our advantage lies in the experience , tactics , aspect. And that's what military will also go for. Very precise and calculated manuevors. And definitely pre-emptive followed by defense and counter.
 
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People should give up dreaming about fighting PLA, they can steamroll Arunachal and Ladakh whenever it wants.
Our problems vis a vis China is primarily in the aerospace domain , cyber , Drones , IADS & the rocket force . As far as the latter 3 goes we can still match it or come near to their capabilities & capacities as most if not all the building blocks are present within the country.

All we need to do is show urgency & move fast to set it up in case of the rocket force or augment it in case of the IADS. We've already covered good distance w.r.t drones , counter drone systems , LMs etc though more needs to be done.

Eventually for China to win they'd require boots on the ground. That's where we can not only match but surpass them.

However success in this domain is also linked to the aforementioned domains . That's where the problems arise.
 

Until something is officially signed on paper, everything is just a plan. We are still waiting for the signatures on several defense projects that have been pending for a long time. Our bureaucracy never lets us down.

tide help GIF
 

The Real Reason India Wants 114 More Rafales Has Its Neighbour Worried

Recent reports indicating that the Indian Air Force (IAF) is urging the Government of India to initiate talks for an additional 114 Dassault Rafale fighters signal a potential paradigm shift in the country’s defence procurement strategy. This move, if it materializes, would represent a decisive step towards fleet consolidation, leveraging existing investments to create a more efficient and formidable air arm.

In the latest episode of the Defence Uncut podcast, the Quwa team analyzed why this development is less about a simple platform-vs-platform matchup and more about a systemic challenge that could force the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) to fundamentally rethink its approach to air warfare.

This potential procurement is widely interpreted as the IAF’s preference to steer its Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) requirement towards a sole-source acquisition of the Rafale, bypassing a lengthy competitive process and avoiding “distractions” like potential bids for the F-35 or Su-57.

The logic is technically and fiscally sound: India has already made significant investments in establishing the operational and maintenance overhead for the Rafale, and expanding the fleet would be the most cost-efficient way to bolster its squadron strength.

A Shift Towards Consolidation

The IAF’s push for more Rafales marks a departure from its historical procurement patterns, which often resulted in a logistically challenging mix of aircraft from diverse suppliers.

As the podcast panel noted, government priorities aimed at maintaining diplomatic ties with multiple global powers – e.g., Russia, Europe, and the United States – often constrained military decision-making, leading to a fleet that was difficult to integrate into a single, cohesive network-centric architecture.

This new approach suggests the IAF is embracing the model used by many Western air forces: standardizing on a few core platforms to maximize efficiency, training, and interoperability.

The vision appears to be a “high-low mix” centered on the 4.5+ generation Rafale as the high-end asset and the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft as the workhorse, supplemented by the upgraded Su-30MKI fleet in heavy strike and specialized roles.

This consolidation would allow experienced Rafale aircrews to form the nucleus of new squadrons, standardize training protocols, and create a more focused and potent fighting force.

The Industrial Underpinning: India’s Overlooked Advantage

A crucial point often overlooked in regional military analysis is the strength and scale of India’s domestic defence industry. As the podcast highlighted, India’s ability to induct platforms in large numbers is not merely a function of its larger budget, but its capacity to leverage local manufacturing to maximize the value of its expenditure.

A stark comparison was drawn between India’s Su-30MKI program and Pakistan’s JF-17 project. India manufactures approximately 80% of the Su-30MKI’s airframe and 54% of its complex AL-31FP engine indigenously. This is a level of industrial depth Pakistan has not achieved with the JF-17, where over half the airframe is produced locally but often from imported raw materials.

This indigenous capability allows India to build platforms at scale, control the integration of avionics and weapons, and reduce long-term sustainment costs. Should the deal for 114 Rafales proceed under a “Made in India” framework, it is estimated that 50-60% of the aircraft could be built locally, further deepening this industrial advantage.

This industrial reality is what underpins India’s ability to plan for fleets of hundreds of aircraft, while Pakistan’s fiscal and industrial constraints limit it to smaller, often piecemeal acquisitions that create logistical overheads without achieving sufficient combat mass.

Implications for the PAF: A Systemic, Not a Platform, Challenge

For the Pakistan Air Force, the IAF’s potential Rafale consolidation is a “worrying sign”.

The threat is not simply the addition of 114 advanced fighters, but the emergence of a more efficiently managed, well-trained, and deeply networked adversary that can finally bring its numerical superiority to bear effectively. For years, the PAF has relied on superior training and network-centric integration as force multipliers to counter the IAF’s quantitative edge.

A consolidated IAF threatens to erode that qualitative advantage.

The discussion emphasized that responding with a tit-for-tat platform acquisition is a flawed approach. Pakistan’s pursuit of the J-35 stealth fighter, for example, should be understood not as a direct answer to the Rafale, but as an effort to fill a long-standing and historically denied capability gap for a credible deep-strike platform.

An IAF equipped with nearly 200 Rafales and hundreds of Tejas fighters, backed by a modernized Su-30MKI fleet, would force the PAF to “rethink Air Warfare at a very fundamental level”.

Unable to compete on a fighter-for-fighter basis, Pakistan’s approach must shift. The imperative would be to invest heavily in its own defensive net, i.e., bolstering numbers of JF-17s equipped with modern AESA radars and long-range missiles, and inducting a scalable, new-generation Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) system to raise the cost of enemy intrusion.

Offensively, the focus would need to lean further into asymmetric capabilities, including unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAVs), loitering munitions, and ground-based long-range rocket artillery to penetrate and degrade India’s enhanced defensive and offensive systems.
 
Until something is officially signed on paper, everything is just a plan. We are still waiting for the signatures on several defense projects that have been pending for a long time. Our bureaucracy never lets us down.

tide help GIF


Are we going to sign 2 deals for fighter jets and 2 deals for submarines?

I don't believe it.
 
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