MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
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No doubt it is. But must come in such a configuration which can deal Chinese threat. GE engines are delayed once again. And you need to fill the gap and balance the equation with Europe as well, because who knows there is US pressure on France to not allow F4 or F5 config to India under some NATO compulsions?
Explain me why IAF accepted the last bird of the 36 (infact the first one, used to validate all the ISE) ?
Is IAF so lazy?
No way.
Rafale is fully ITAR free. And after the AUKUS blow, France will never accept a US pressure on a weapon deal.
Especially in case of Large Force Engagements and Dense Electronic Warfare and Jamming Environments , Rafales have done a very good job
That is what they were bought for
From here on the Battlefield complexities will only increase with Swarm drones and
M-UM-T
It's about who has the better CCS and AI system in future wars. We can already see the shift happening really time in Ukraine - russia war.
AI is hallucinating here. Litening G4 is an LDP from Israel's Rafael. It is the standard targeting pod of the IAF. Although, the IAF is rumored to have purchased the Thales Talios LDP for Rafale.
Other than that, everything else checks out.
What are your sources ? And why be so angry ?
First, the Meteor. You are completely wrong. I don't know if you misunderstood the news, or if you've done it on purpose, but its not because its the first exercise done by the french navy by firing this missile that the missile is operationnal only now... It is operation since the tests have been validated during the test campaign of the F3R version. Multiple tries have been done since 2019. But we don't launch Meteor often, and basicaly because its an expensive weapon.
For the ISE, and accordingly to your own press : India to start Rafale upgrade project from January next year
The development of ISE is done since 2021 (at least). The development has been ordered to Dassault by India. And the upgrade was about to start in 2021 for a duration of 15 months. I can't find any news telling us if it was over or not. But as per the text, I understand that the upgrade has to be performed by Indians themselves.
So the development and the certification is done. ISE certainly done too (but in anycase, why blaming DA here ?). So I reapeat, what are you sources ? And why do you want this blaming campaign against Dassault so hard ?
A Mod here had once published a photo of an IAF Rafale with this pod. But it was only a picture, to be treated as such: nothing conclusive
(the photo was very nice
)Dude, what is this ChatGPT asss answer???
Rafale was shot down because its survivability nosedives in contested airspace. Indian rafales didnt even go into contested airspace, they were within indian borders. Thats saying something.
Its airframe is not shaped for all aspect stealth. No matter how much the french try to sell their a/c as literal magic i.e. spectra, it cant make up for its non-stealth shaping.
Its not a bad a/c, thats not what I am saying. Its IS a capable aircraft. My point is this plane is not good enough to justify its price tag. There is no rational way to justify spending $300+ mil per a/c on a non-stealth jet to be inducted post-2030. If you mfg them in India, the cost is going to increase even more. At this point, if you are going to burn so much money, either go for Su-57 or swallow your pride & join any other stealth program. Maybe go for South Korean jet by a JV with a pvt consortium. Whatever may be the program but it should be a 5th gen a/c, unlike Rafale. Burning billions on a non-stealth plane is just setting youself up for failure.
Another troubling aspect:
There are conflicting reports that Meteor is not even properly mated with Indian Rafales, its main selling point.
Broader point:
People dont seem to realise that Modi has reduced india's military spending as % of GDP to a historical low of 1.9%. Cause thats the prudent thing to do, economic growth is everything. Once you are prosperous enough, then you can focus on military. But economy is the most important priority for a $2700 pci country like India. Military spending of India should be as low as practically possible right now. I would argue it should be below 1.2%. Thats because Indian economy is poised for a generational take-off, the most we make of it, the more prosperous our future generations will be[We failed post-2005, dont repeat that mistake]. Military spending is a drag on economic growth cause its unproductive.
Now some harsh truths: US & China are going to be the 2 main poles of miltech innovtion. These nations have passed their high growth eras & are focusing on creating the miltech to assert their dominance. These nations will make the best Air-forces going forwards cause only these 2 have the money & scale. Its prudent to hitch your wagon to atleast 1 of them [If possible to both of them]. Everyone else will just play catch-up to them. Not buying from either one of them is just self-defeating.
In this context, when Indian economy is poised for a take-off, its prudent to buy from these countries as it means you are minimising your military expenditure to buy the best stuff and get the max value out of the money you spend.
Buying from others is just retarded. India is not winning any wars even if we get all 114 Rafales/Su-57/Tie-fighters/yada-yada and bankrupting ourselves in the process.
https://www.delhipolicygroup.org/uploads_dpg/publication_file/indias-defence-budget-2025-26-5271.pdf
Military budget of India - Wikipedia
What a childish response. Dude's calling others' keyboard warrior because the retarded decision making of a retarded/shambolic Institution is being questioned. If you dismiss all criticism as "shut up, they know better", then whats the point of this forum. What the *censored* are you even doing here??
Atleast correct the spelling of plane you are defending. Its rafale, not rafael, thats an israeli company.
"And no sir, our armed forces aren't called toughest customers for no reason."
You are clearly a child & not worth wasting time on. You like licking the boots of generals with no questions asked but others may not be like you. Your retort to a rafale shootdown is "source=Pakistan". Do you still believe that was fake???
I have other sources to confirm what went down. I have family relatives in IAF.
Dont bother replying to me ever again.
Ah..... yes, clearly spending $300 mil+ per a/c is not good enough, lets burn more cash to make it $350 mil+ per a/c.
Did you see the report from the IAF to come with such an affirmation ? Or are you guessing by trying to analyse what you know ? (Probably not more than any other here)
For me (and I assume that it is only an opinion) it is the result of a choice made by the IAF to not attack the military infrastructure of Pakistan air force first. For some reasons I can imagine (to avoid to say that they attack the country and not only the terrorists).
Consequence : they lost a plane.
In a war scenario, do you think this plane would have been lost ? I don't think so.
As a proof, attacks continued days after, and they targeted air force bases, SAM, radar, etc. Without any loss.
Now India have the capacity to attack deep into the Pakistan territory. This is a first. Not only due to the Rafale abilities, but it was a part of this success.
Now Pakistan knows that they shouldn't mess with India because they can strike hard and everywhere.
So, this story of one plane down, in that context, is meaningless.
Guy thinks contested airspace means dogfight in this era 
.. and calling indian military a shambolic institution..
Either he is from pakistan or from the creed of left-liberal oxymorons.
It's their favourite excuse when anyone calls them out. We can question blah blah blah... Good job correcting the spelling. Cookie
?
.. and calling indian military a shambolic institution.. Either he is from pakistan or from the creed of left-liberal oxymorons.
It's their favourite excuse when anyone calls them out. We can question blah blah blah... Good job correcting the spelling. Cookie
?
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I hope what you said is correct, because the way things are going well it causes doubt. Not necessarily related to ITAR but diplomatic pressure.
The warfare is not plane to plane, its a network against a network.
India did not deploy its own AWACS in may 6th and 7th.
India did not deploy its EW platforms.
India did not do a SEAD or DEAD.
India for the reasons best know to it, did not buy R-37M missile in very long range roles.
We do not know if Meteor was even deployed.
heck given indian air to air missile debris was not found, we do not know if India fighters deployed them.
India did not even consider the possibility of its planes being shot down when it did not cross the LoC.
Its not just the plane but how you fight the conflict too.
Dude, what is this ChatGPT asss answer???
Rafale was shot down because its survivability nosedives in contested airspace. Indian rafales didnt even go into contested airspace, they were within indian borders. Thats saying something.
Its airframe is not shaped for all aspect stealth. No matter how much the french try to sell their a/c as literal magic i.e. spectra, it cant make up for its non-stealth shaping.
Its not a bad a/c, thats not what I am saying. Its IS a capable aircraft. My point is this plane is not good enough to justify its price tag. There is no rational way to justify spending $300+ mil per a/c on a non-stealth jet to be inducted post-2030. If you mfg them in India, the cost is going to increase even more. At this point, if you are going to burn so much money, either go for Su-57 or swallow your pride & join any other stealth program. Maybe go for South Korean jet by a JV with a pvt consortium. Whatever may be the program but it should be a 5th gen a/c, unlike Rafale. Burning billions on a non-stealth plane is just setting youself up for failure.
Another troubling aspect:
There are conflicting reports that Meteor is not even properly mated with Indian Rafales, its main selling point.
Broader point:
People dont seem to realise that Modi has reduced india's military spending as % of GDP to a historical low of 1.9%. Cause thats the prudent thing to do, economic growth is everything. Once you are prosperous enough, then you can focus on military. But economy is the most important priority for a $2700 pci country like India. Military spending of India should be as low as practically possible right now. I would argue it should be below 1.2%. Thats because Indian economy is poised for a generational take-off, the most we make of it, the more prosperous our future generations will be[We failed post-2005, dont repeat that mistake]. Military spending is a drag on economic growth cause its unproductive.
Now some harsh truths: US & China are going to be the 2 main poles of miltech innovtion. These nations have passed their high growth eras & are focusing on creating the miltech to assert their dominance. These nations will make the best Air-forces going forwards cause only these 2 have the money & scale. Its prudent to hitch your wagon to atleast 1 of them [If possible to both of them]. Everyone else will just play catch-up to them. Not buying from either one of them is just self-defeating.
In this context, when Indian economy is poised for a take-off, its prudent to buy from these countries as it means you are minimising your military expenditure to buy the best stuff and get the max value out of the money you spend.
Buying from others is just retarded. India is not winning any wars even if we get all 114 Rafales/Su-57/Tie-fighters/yada-yada and bankrupting ourselves in the process.
https://www.delhipolicygroup.org/uploads_dpg/publication_file/indias-defence-budget-2025-26-5271.pdf
View attachment 46512Military budget of India - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Nice, but we need to explain him what exactly the no escape zone means. It's not a 100% kill assurance into this zone. It means that whatever the target will do, inside this range he will not be able to exhaust the missile energy. That's all.
It is very important, because it's the most effective way to escape a missile once it is launched. But then you have all kind of jamming.