Dude you want us to give up on chips and focus on quantum which wont even come for decades???
. Chips are still very important and quantum not displacing it anytime soon. India must continue to pour money and resources to chips. And making 28 nm is very different than 2-3 nm which TSMC is trying to do in US.we are not able to bring back so called Indian origin ppl and build world class software products.
I know even 28nm should be easier to build but need to do it with 100% from raw materials within the cntry. Zero foreign input right from quartz crystal to wafer and chemicals, if we can do that rest is a matter of time.Dude you want us to give up on chips and focus on quantum which wont even come for decades???
like we keep building the same road every year with same result.
Let's start making the chips first. Looking for perfection right off the bat would be foolish. The amount of resources needed to be invested to build whole supply chain will come from the value gained from current fabs themselves.I know even 28nm should be easier to build but need to do it with 100% from raw materials within the cntry. Zero foreign input right from quartz crystal to wafer and chemicals, if we can do that rest is a matter of time.
like we keep building the same road every year with same result.
Your point being?
100% with raw materials is tough and near impossible for any country even the US let us first produce 28 nm en masse with chemicals and other things from other countries. If we go by your logic even the machines which produce the chips should be made in India, something which no country on the face of the planet has doneI know even 28nm should be easier to build but need to do it with 100% from raw materials within the cntry. Zero foreign input right from quartz crystal to wafer and chemicals, if we can do that rest is a matter of time.
like we keep building the same road every year with same result.
. It's a globalized supply chain for a reason.
Some people see China and bemoan why India is so behind, and think that India must also rise quickly like China else everything is lost. They don't understand that the Indian system and Indian realities, economic social political are vastly different than China and that India will never ever become another China. It will chart its own course, whether it be for semiconductors, fighter jets, etc. But, I have seen that the oceanic gap between India and China has unfortunately made many Indians cynical and dismissive towards India and any progress it makes. With such a defeatist attitude, a country cannot rise.
They also done realise that china opted for free market economy when it was developing. And that development started taking place in 1980s. Not 2010s when the world started to notice.
chinese have now been nearly cut off from western machinery and they are developing their own ASML equivalent system, they are saying their lithography machines will soon replace ASML ones. They might very well achieve that in next 5-6 years, complete independence from western systems.100% with raw materials is tough and near impossible for any country even the US let us first produce 28 nm en masse with chemicals and other things from other countries. If we go by your logic even the machines which produce the chips should be made in India, something which no country on the face of the planet has done
ASML machine the mirror is from Germany software from US/Europe the titanium balls from US etc etc but overall machine is assembled in Netherlands. And TSMC Samsung use those machines else semiconductors are impossible. Even China mostly use ASML machines, they are still today struggling to make their own 28nm machine. It's a globalized world and it's not gonna become localized anytime soon for semiconductors.
Look dude, there is absolutely NO way China can make an EUV lithography machine for sub 5 nm mass production with good yields in 5-6 years. Not even in 10 years. Maybe in 15 years that too as a lab scale EUV machines, definitely not for mass production. I don't know whether you appreciate just how unbelievably complex an EUV lithograph machine is. It was made possible by research done in US, mirrors from Germany and systems integration in Netherlands where the top minds from 100 different countries are collected to achieve it.
Btw, China hasn't even replaced all of their ASML machines for even 28 nm, let alone 14 nm!!!!! They're just now in advanced stages for 28 nm lithograph machine. 28 nm DUV tech vs <10 nm EUV tech us like GE404 vs GE XA102!!!
They have EUV machines in testing already. No clue about their yield, but they're throwing all the money into their semiconductor programs.
Achieving EUV to the level of ASMLs level of reliability is something which I doubt they can do in 5-6 years. By when Taiwan, Korea and US will be even more ahead of China, both in advanced node production and research.
Here's the thing, we have no idea how advanced or backward China's programs are. All we know is that they started their EUV program back in the 2000s and that they're in the testing phase now. That's more or less it. They're pretty opaque with everything, so making definitive statements about their purported capabilities is foolish.
Yeah. This, I can agree with.
Making definitive statements about their EUV capabilities compared to ASML is proper. Because the technology took literally decades to master, the research for it started in the 80s and took a mutli nation effort to achieve. The sole technological superpower US couldn't do it on its own, what on Earth makes you think any one country even China could do it??? Unless they steal the technology, doing it on their own and matching the Wests advancements in 5-6 years is a foolish assertion. ASMLs EUV right now is mass deployed across US, Taiwan and Korea and already making them achieve good yields of 5,4, 3 nm and allowing them to move forward with 2 nm and possibly even 1.6 nm soon. To assume the Chinese can match this level in just 5 years is foolhardy.
.Sure. ASML has more experience and understanding of EUV than China, but that doesn't stop China from advancing. Everyone had to start from somewhere and China is rather adept at catching up to others.
ASML made serious investments into EUV in late 90s early 00s. China made it about a decade later. So, the timeline kinda matches.
Because USA doesn't have the incentive to? That's literally it. USA can make EUV machines if they want to, they just don't have the incentive to do it. Why spend hundreds of billions of dollars on reinventing the wheel when there's already products in the market that are being built by your allies that also, incidentally, depend on you for several crucial parts of their machine?
I never said their capability was close to ASML. I said they have started (very recently) testing their EUV machines. The obvious implication was that theirs are not as advanced as ASML's (who have already moved on to the next generation) because of this being their, y'know, first generation of EUV machines? It's also entirely possible that their machine is inferior to ASML's first gen mass produced ones.
When has that ever been a barrier for China? If it's possible to steal something, China has already stolen it.
Yes. But that is hard to catch upto w/o time. Just the fact that India was fragile five economy with no investor in sight just ten years ago.. and now we have our own fabs coming up in less than 5 years of projects begining.. is no less than a miracle for Indian polity. I didn't even count the century lost due to license raj and communism.
USA can't even make EUV all by itself if it wanted to. As i said, it was literally a multinational effort. The prior EUV research was done in US national labs but the components that made it possible came from all over the world, the mirrors to reflect the EUV light itself came from Germany (from the German company Zeiss specifically) and took almost 30 years to master, the tin droplets which generate the EUV is from the US, the laser hitting the tin droplets is from Germany, the mask is from Japan etc etc. ASML then integrates all of these systems which is another headache. US would struggle as much as China to make the mirrors alone something which only German companies have such deep expertise in.
chinese huawei kirin processor latest version is allegedly supposed to be 7nm. But they are not able to produce it at mass scale that is profitable and having less defects.
