ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tarun
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Yes, apart from realtime AI simulation & suggestion, bcoz jet's antennas can recieve data from 100s of Kms away, so AI will be used to try to hack, jam, push wrong data, whatever it can do & at same time defend against other's CW. So here also it is trial & error, tom & jerry game.👾🤖📡
This needs more computing, electricity, means better engines.

Indian IT industry is mostly service oriented, not product oriented, caters mostly to West. Most computing H/w, S/w, protocols are Western. So we need our own ecosystem.
The leader nations who have already made something decades back, we should try to catch up.
Yup. It's seriously saddening to see that despite the necessity, firms like infosys and TCS aren't entering the IP game. They are instead doubling down on services by helping west build it's AI & AI products 🥲
 
Yup. It's seriously saddening to see that despite the necessity, firms like infosys and TCS aren't entering the IP game. They are instead doubling down on services by helping west build it's AI & AI products 🥲
IP game will require R&D, which in turn will require more capex, why would they pump in more money to develop new products if they are growing just fine by building on top of Western products? This will require the Gov to pump in money and essentially come up with a new program; they have already launched the IndiaAI mission, but that is essentially just catch-up play with the US and China. We need a forward-thinking committee to find out what all applications AI will be present in, say 20 years from now, and start working on them now. We should have our own separate program that focuses solely on defence applications in AI
 
IP game will require R&D, which in turn will require more capex, why would they pump in more money to develop new products if they are growing just fine by building on top of Western products? This will require the Gov to pump in money and essentially come up with a new program; they have already launched the IndiaAI mission, but that is essentially just catch-up play with the US and China. We need a forward-thinking committee to find out what all applications AI will be present in, say 20 years from now, and start working on them now. We should have our own separate program that focuses solely on defence applications in AI
IndianAI mission is a good step but it's just a baby step. And govt cant replace the role of pvt sector. And that's saddening about our pvt sector.

Govt already has its own tech stack when it comes to critical things. Specially national security related things. It started after Kargil war and denial of GPS. But that tech stack isn't optimal for masses and market use. Although it can be scaled up to that but that's just bad policies of license raj and PSU,DPSU concept.

As for thinking ahead.. it's hard to do that when you're not upto date with present even. But thing is that atleast it slowly( turtle pace), but surely becoming part of discourse and hopefully things will become better.
We just need Modi like leaders who have Indian interest in mind and aren't leftist. Cause one bad govt can undo years of hard work maintaining fiscal discipline.

And there's no liberals in India. That's just a mask for right and left.

Infosys is deluding itself if it thinks it can survive for long this way. OpenAI is also opening it's office in India. Soon they won't require services of low level developers at all. Even the updated vision of Infosys can't survive for long. And they don't lack money at all.. Neither does other companies.

Just see the automobile sector.. they have pathetic R&D despite earning so much profit. And you will see them gobbling up land and waste it. Building hotels and PR projects instead of advancing science.

IITs are severely underfunded and their management is no less betaucratic than govt. They just take the cream among cream and think they are doing good job. Those people would've done same in good pvt college and lot better in US ivy leagues.
 
In future, some African, Asian, South American nations would develop creating big global market & competition in every industrial domain.

As we see in news, actions speak more than words, USA wants to PUPPET entire world -
- what other nations should purchase.
- in what quantity they should purchase.
- from whom they should purchase.
- at what price they should purchase.
- openly implementing policies like CAATSA, etc.
- imposing tarrifs
- maintaining US$ as global trade currency.
- threatening other regional group currencies & policies of EU, BRICS, etc.
- all above points constitute the "American interests".
21st century's hitler can be born in USA.
Hitler was racial type of dictator.
SOME US politicians are economic dictators.

So only R&D can enable to export products.
 

There must be a deeper policy reason behind this no? Or has the kirana industry got no guts to take it on?

This is ridiculous. It's not like they don't talk with potential players. They should set deadline date further from start. Extension after extension shows lack of preparedness. I worry that in the end they will go with a hollow consortium with HAL doing everything the way it does. 😡🤬
 
There must be a deeper policy reason behind this no? Or has the kirana industry got no guts to take it on?

This is ridiculous. It's not like they don't talk with potential players. They should set deadline date further from start. Extension after extension shows lack of preparedness. I worry that in the end they will go with a hollow consortium with HAL doing everything the way it does. 😡🤬
If nobody else is man enough to take responsibility then HAL will have to do it like they always do.
 
What are the dimensions of AMCA IWB,
ASTRA BVRAAM is IWB compatible,
Others are SMART, Gaurav etc.

RudraM 1 is 5.5m, (too big?)
Won't we need a ARM missile for AMCA?
 
That 5-10db reduction is too low for a stealth jet level RAM.
Its more of ram That is used in low observable 4.5 gen jets.
Most likely su30mki upgrade, or if its in navy section , mig29k upgrade.
Navy also asked for 40 fighter jet aesa radar, along with making astra mk2 its main bvr missiles(the original mig29k radar is definitely not capable of utilizing astra mk2's range).
 
That 5-10db reduction is too low for a stealth jet level RAM.
Its more of ram That is used in low observable 4.5 gen jets.
Most likely su30mki upgrade, or if its in navy section , mig29k upgrade.
Navy also asked for 40 fighter jet aesa radar, along with making astra mk2 its main bvr missiles(the original mig29k radar is definitely not capable of utilizing astra mk2's range).
Could be for the upgraded Su-30s. Let's see.
 
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Next-gen fighter jet war heats up, protests reach design body

New Delhi: The high-stakes battle to develop India's next-generation fighter jet is heating up, with protests reaching design body Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) on the terms and conditions for the selection of a manufacturing partner.

Sources said Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has submitted to ADA that the qualifying terms and conditions when it comes to financial performance of companies are skewed against it. ADA had, in June, floated an expression of interest (EOI) -- akin to a tender -- inviting Indian companies to participate in the ambitious project to manufacture at least five protoypes of the Advanced Multirole Combat Aircraft (AMCA). The last date of submission has been extended to September 30 and meetings have already been held with prospective competitors.

As per the plan cleared by the defence ministry, Indian companies -- both private and public sector -- would compete to become a developmental partner for the project to first manufacture the prototypes and later get larger orders once the fighter jet has been certified for induction. Prior to the EOI, several private sector companies had conveyed to the ministry that they would be hard pressed to compete against HAL for the major project. The common line taken was that the government has invested heavily over the years on creating infrastructure at HAL, while the private sector would need to do this from scratch, making it harder for them to compete.

The other point raised by private companies was that technical parameters for selection should be fair to enable them to qualify for the competition. Very few companies in the private sector have expertise in aeronautical manufacturing at present. To encourage the private sector to compete, the ministry ensured that a major part of the infrastructure required to make the prototypes would be provided by ADA and no unfair advantage would be given to state-owned entities.

Sources said HAL's protest has been registered on the EOI which mentions the revenue to order book ratio as one of the qualifying points. No points would be awarded to HAL as it has an extremely loaded order book. The current order book for HAL is close to ₹2 lakh crore. The idea behind the clause, sources said, was to ensure that all aeronautical work is not cornered by a single entity and an alternate hub is created within the country. There has also been consensus that the private sector needs to be encouraged to enter the challenging field of fighter jet manufacturing, given the huge backlog of work already placed on HAL that includes fighters, helicopters and trainer aircraft.


Sources added that the revenue to order book ratio could also ensure that HAL takes a partner from the private sector to qualify for the AMCA order. This could be in the form of a joint venture or consortium, with the work load being shared, enabling the creation of a private sector entity specialising in aeronautical manufacturing.
 
Next-gen fighter jet war heats up, protests reach design body

New Delhi: The high-stakes battle to develop India's next-generation fighter jet is heating up, with protests reaching design body Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) on the terms and conditions for the selection of a manufacturing partner.

Sources said Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has submitted to ADA that the qualifying terms and conditions when it comes to financial performance of companies are skewed against it. ADA had, in June, floated an expression of interest (EOI) -- akin to a tender -- inviting Indian companies to participate in the ambitious project to manufacture at least five protoypes of the Advanced Multirole Combat Aircraft (AMCA). The last date of submission has been extended to September 30 and meetings have already been held with prospective competitors.

As per the plan cleared by the defence ministry, Indian companies -- both private and public sector -- would compete to become a developmental partner for the project to first manufacture the prototypes and later get larger orders once the fighter jet has been certified for induction. Prior to the EOI, several private sector companies had conveyed to the ministry that they would be hard pressed to compete against HAL for the major project. The common line taken was that the government has invested heavily over the years on creating infrastructure at HAL, while the private sector would need to do this from scratch, making it harder for them to compete.

The other point raised by private companies was that technical parameters for selection should be fair to enable them to qualify for the competition. Very few companies in the private sector have expertise in aeronautical manufacturing at present. To encourage the private sector to compete, the ministry ensured that a major part of the infrastructure required to make the prototypes would be provided by ADA and no unfair advantage would be given to state-owned entities.

Sources said HAL's protest has been registered on the EOI which mentions the revenue to order book ratio as one of the qualifying points. No points would be awarded to HAL as it has an extremely loaded order book. The current order book for HAL is close to ₹2 lakh crore. The idea behind the clause, sources said, was to ensure that all aeronautical work is not cornered by a single entity and an alternate hub is created within the country. There has also been consensus that the private sector needs to be encouraged to enter the challenging field of fighter jet manufacturing, given the huge backlog of work already placed on HAL that includes fighters, helicopters and trainer aircraft.


Sources added that the revenue to order book ratio could also ensure that HAL takes a partner from the private sector to qualify for the AMCA order. This could be in the form of a joint venture or consortium, with the work load being shared, enabling the creation of a private sector entity specialising in aeronautical manufacturing.
Govt should push HAL out of AMCA picture totally.

HAL should focus on Tejas series only. And keep upgrading it, come up with new versions in future.

While the private consortia should handle AMCA project w/o HAL and then compete with HAL for orders after AMCA. But PSU politics is so sabotaging, that they would rather invest time in destroying any competition rather than improve themselves. A shame.
 
Govt should push HAL out of AMCA picture totally.

HAL should focus on Tejas series only. And keep upgrading it, come up with new versions in future.

While the private consortia should handle AMCA project w/o HAL and then compete with HAL for orders after AMCA. But PSU politics is so sabotaging, that they would rather invest time in destroying any competition rather than improve themselves. A shame.
😭😭 Bhai private sector se rudders deliver nahi hote time pe, I don't even want to get into this. I'm like this close to giving up on project, 3 goddam years to choose a production partner

No private bid yet too
 
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😭😭 Bhai private sector se rudders deliver nahi hote time pe, I don't even want to get into this. I'm like this close to giving up on project, 3 goddam years to choose a production partner

No private bid yet too
Bro problem govt bias ki hai. Govt procurement is built in a way that it favors PSUs and relationship rather than blind procurement based on specifications only.
And given the historical nature of our defense industries rigidness and closed off to non govt people.. it really scares away investors.

Govt PSUs can take losses after losses because they have govt to bailem out. The board member is private demand roi projections and risk management.

I also used to talk shit of Indian private companies for their lack of R&D. But then I tried to see what's stopping them. Turns out it's the Beauracracy itself.

As for your scenario of rudders or other components.. bro contracts goes to chai Pani relationship 😭. And that too very small orders of specialised components that requires investment of their own. There's no long term contract or such. And govt contractors are of same breed yaar.
And new scientist don't have the capital to invest and develop it on own.

See for AMCA, there's no guarantee of orders once the project gets certified. No clarity on financing in case the project doesn't pan out. HAL can just ask govt for some capital insertion, not pvt companies. And there aren't even clear firm signals from govt that a standalone pvt player is inevitable.

No pvt companies like to throw away profits. But if they are investing, they will obviously want as little govt intervention in the business management as possible. Which spools the state apparatus.

Just see with LM & Boeing. They get guaranteed orders even if final product is below expectations. But they also risk losing future contracts to competitions affecting their profitability.
 
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