Meh, they'll extend the life of jf17 to 20+ years, the same way they extended life of Mirage 3's.
By keeping them in hanger, and In-service on paper.
cannibalizing of jets for parts too.
Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
By keeping them in hanger, and In-service on paper.
cannibalizing of jets for parts too.
Actual number is much larger though, around 750-800 that will be retired or at their end of their service life between 2035 to 2040.
Even their Block-3 JF-17s and Block-2 twin seaters would've completed majority of it's airframe life by then with J-10C being nearly halfway there.
Their aircraft numbers are gonna be in big crisis.
Not entirely accurate but...
| Branch | Aircraft Type | Qty |
|---|---|---|
| Air Force | ||
| JF-17 Block 1 | 50 | Airframe life (~3,000 hrs) likely exhausted |
| JF-17 Block 2 (early-mid batches) | ~70 | Will approach fatigue threshold by 2040 |
| F-7P/PG | 53 | Obsolete, most grounded |
| Mirage III/V | 86 | Life-extended, but 1960s–70s airframes |
| F-16 (Block 15/MLU) | ~50 | 40+ yrs old, support uncertain |
| Il-78 Midas AAR | 4 | 1980s Soviet era |
| C-130B/E/H | ~18 | 1960s–70s US-built airframes |
| L-100 Hercules | 1 | Civilian C-130, ~50 years old |
| DA-20 Falcon EW | 2 | Outdated EW systems, 1970s airframes |
| Mushshak trainers | ~250 | Shared fleet; 1980s–90s origin |
| T‑37 Tweet | ~62 | Retiring or hangar-queen |
| Hongdu K-8 | ~30 | In service since 1994 |
| Schweizer S-300 | ~25 | Rotary trainers; 1980s–90s |
| Bell 206 JetRanger | ~20 | Trainer helis; 50–60 yrs old |
| Saab 2000 AEW&C | 6 | In service since 2008–10 |
| ZDK-03 AEW&C | 4 | Entered 2011–2015; 30 yrs old by 2040 |
| CN-235 transport | 4 | ~45 yrs by 2040 |
| Y-12 transport | 3 | Early 1990s aircraft |
| Cessna Citation Excel / Caravan | 4 | Small VIP/utility aircraft |
| Army | ||
| AH-1F Cobra gunships | ~50 | Most already retired |
| Mi-17/171 medium helis | ~30 | Oldest units ~40 yrs by 2040 |
| Bell UH-1 / Bell 204 | ~16 | Over 60 years old |
| Alouette III & Lama | ~30 | Light utility helis from 1960s–70s |
| Navy | ||
| P-3C Orion | 6 | Difficult to maintain, delivered 1996–98 |
| Alouette III | 7 | Very old maritime helis |
| Sea King | 23 | Nearing end of lifespan |
| Harbin Z-9 | ~6 | Will be ~30 yrs old by 2040 |
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This should be concerning for the PAF. IAF should rejoice though. Their upcoming 5th gen planes are imaginary for now. Also, Pakistan will need loans like there is no tomorrow to order new air frames. I understand many will say they have good ties with both States and China. However, no one gives equipment for free or without strings attached especially if you are Pakistan.
They are apparently developing PF-X, a scaled up JF-17 similar to our Tejas Mk2. Will likely replace the aging Mirage 3/5 and F-7 fleets in addition to older Block 1 Blunders.
They could be in the market for used F-16s too. European AFs will soon be retiring dozens as they move to the F-35. Trump may not be averse to selling them new build B70 Vipers either. Plus they apparently have plans for some 120 J-10Cs.
This is the current debt level of Pakistan. No matter how many international backers it finds, the crux of the matter remains that apart from China no one wishes to give Pakistan loans for military equipment. So before someone becomes alarmist and starts claiming the 5th gen imports or new ADs for PAF from other NATO nations, please do keep these figures in mind.
I had forgotten to quote them in my previous post. The fiscal situation that Pakistan is in leaves very little to imagination. It simply cannot engage in prolonged wars.
As of the end of 2024, Pakistan’s external debt reached approximately $131.1 billion USD. This is a slight decrease from the previous quarter, which was $133.7 billion USD. The country faces significant debt servicing obligations, with about $23 billion USD in external debt servicing due in the 2025 fiscal year. For domestic and external debt servicing combined, Pakistan has allocated Rs 8.2 trillion (about 46.7% of its total federal budget for 2025-26)
I had forgotten to quote them in my previous post. The fiscal situation that Pakistan is in leaves very little to imagination. It simply cannot engage in prolonged wars.
As of the end of 2024, Pakistan’s external debt reached approximately $131.1 billion USD. This is a slight decrease from the previous quarter, which was $133.7 billion USD. The country faces significant debt servicing obligations, with about $23 billion USD in external debt servicing due in the 2025 fiscal year. For domestic and external debt servicing combined, Pakistan has allocated Rs 8.2 trillion (about 46.7% of its total federal budget for 2025-26)
All that needs money. Current fleet size of theirs is maintained through sustaining obsolete platforms in large numbers which they acquired when uncle sam and others were generous with funding, and economy wasn't a shallow stagnant basket case as it is now. Ideally their military size should be the same as that of bangladesh, but here we are at more than half of India. Not to mention their GDP numbers are highly exaggerated, backed by nothing substantial (my estimate around $150-$170 bn). Worse, their debt levels and forex reserves are alarming.
They will slowly and slowly end up shrinking to bangladesh levels no matter how much they try. They haven't been inducting aircrafts lately apart from some token purchases, and that too with low airframe lives.
Indian Armed Forces are going to severely dominate them further each passing day, both qualitatively and quantitatively. There's very little they can do about it.
It should be interesting (if not outright entertaining) to watch. The Pakee managed to avert bankruptcy by throwing Imran under the bus. Likely after some wink wink from the US deep state. After some intl concern, they are now largely off the hook.
Now that Trump has thrown them a line, the Pakistanis will try and squeeze every penny they can out of the Americans. Saurav Jha thinks they might even some sort of military financing similar to CSF.
Then there are the 'brotherly' benefactors in the ME. Going by reports, their latest play is mineral resources like copper. Exploration costs alone could result in 100s of millions in intl investments.
It depends on what lessons have USA learned from its past bonhomie and also from Chinas way of handling Pakistan.
If you look at the Chinese investment which are more substantial both in quantity and quality (sectors invested into) than earlier US', still pak haven't been able to gain like it did with US meanwhile China got more strategic gains and chokehold than US did. So, if US investment are like China.. give money to generals, politicians,with some military hardware.. while keeping ownership of most of the investment on ground.. it won't do much for pak except delusion.
Even earlier US investment while in better faith than China, made pak economy vulnerable to the dollars. Their politicians got a free pass to prop up an economy that lacked foundation but kept overall picture very rosy for them.
And no matter the bonhomie b/w US deep state and Pakistan, it doesn't change that pak is still a money grinder and anything that CCP gets irked by will just result in failure.
Just think, why would China even let USA have it's share of minerals and oil. They might as well let US build foundation for extraction (security+infra) before kicking them out. US deep state is naive to think that CCP will give them anything meaningful if they do it's pandering a bit. Unless deep state is just CCP in US clothing.
So, for all its talk, there's little need to worry and overthink about it. Instead it will be much more meaningful for govt and policy experts to find ways to increasingly push and invest infra buildup and create value chain of higher order. Semiconductor+ AI+ Quantum+ Robotics.
Just keep the likes of RG out and that is responsibility of public. Not govt. Otherwise more and more welfarism, and penetration of caste politics in private sector will just erase the gains India has made in past decade. deep state and CCP knows it hence you see the funds and the actions undertaken via NGOs.
Yesterday, a Pakistan Air Force Mirage 5 ROSE aircraft crashed on a routine training mission in Sargodha.
We make a lot about the numbers, the edge in BVRs, force multipliers but this is the way asset lifecycle works in most air forces. Thanks to the internet we just get the information easily that would be considered restricted or top secret a few decades ago.
When PAF first got an AAM (AIM-9 Sidewinder for its Sabres) around early 60s, India responded by getting the Soviet K-13. Operationally its performance was below par with failed launches, missiles going to the ground repeatedly. PAF was ahead for a while.
In 1971, PAF had atleast 2 types of AAMs (AIM-9 and the French Matra) while IAF was struggling with the K-13. Better training and tactics developed post 65, helped and IAF had a few confirmed missile kills though bulk of the kills were still with guns.
After a failed affair with the K-5, India got a break and the French R.550 were adopted giving the IAF a missile that had performance at par with the sidewinder.
PAF meanwhile was playing it smart, fielding a mix of missiles. In addition to the latest variant of the AIM-9, it fielded the PL-2 on its F-6s and the French R.550 as well.
Neither side had a AAM advantage. Then in a mic drop moment PAF got the F-16s and things got interesting. India with its long drawn acquisition process was in process of ordering the MiG-23s which even in their most advanced variants were not built to give a pilot the situational awareness, western jets did. The MiG-23s with their R-23s were the first long range missiles IAF got but the supposed PAF edge with the F-16 sparrow combo was already worrying the IAF.
Ironically it was PAF's F-16 acquisition that cemented India's lead in the BVR field. PAF's F-16s were not given true BVR capability and later sanctioned.
Meanwhile India was now fielding MiG-23, MiG-29 and Mirage-2000. Between them India now had R-27s, Super-530Ds, improved lookdown radars on the Mirage and MiG-29. PAF could just whine and point to the stats while IAF laughed and shrugged it off.
In 1997 India got the Su-30 deal. With a big bad plane came a big bad radar. The R-27 ET gave IAF potential engagement range of 100km+. IAF had the edge across the board. This is why during Safed Sagar, IAF MiG-29s got locks on the F-16s and the 16s had to break off. Both sides knew neither would engage but both knew who held the edge.
9/11 brought PAF much needed respite with newer F-16s and AIM-120 AMRAAMs. It was now PAF's turn to gloat. But PAF didnt rest there, burnt once by Washington, PAF got the new series of PL missiles from China ensuring diversity and safety from US sanctions. It put the PL-9 on the F-7 giving it a good short range missile.
Since then China has been helping PAF nibble away at the edge IAF had till its gone. India's response has been the Astra and the Meteor.
Anyways - the purpose of this annoying long post is to reinforce a point - while a gap exists its not decisive yet. As we saw in Sindoor, India still has means to pound the PAF into submission. While the edge driven by asset lifecycles, geopolitics, financial compulsions is a factor its not the only factor.
Big worry for India as this Pakistani weapon can counter Rafale fighter jets'..., dodge S-400, it is...
Islamabad: After facing a major defeat in the recent confrontation with India during Operation Sindoor, Pakistan is focusing on strengthening its military power. Pakistani defence experts are comparin
www.india.com
Explain why Russia is giving jet engines to Pakistan: Congress to government | India News - The Times of India
India News: Congress demands an explanation from the Modi government regarding Russia's decision to supply advanced RD-93MA engines for Pakistan's JF-17 fighter j
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Congress caught up after 5 years?!
I'm yet to see confirmation of RD-93MA version though.
u/reshail_raza
As nobody mentioned a crucial detail seen. The latest JF-17C in Azerbaijan are from latest batch 24, which means PAF had silently inducted 24 planes without any fanservice like Indians.
Delusions galore among our neigbours. 24 aircrafts in 5 years ....
Legate probably meant 24-323 as 24-322 landed in Azerbaijan for exercise
As nobody mentioned a crucial detail seen. The latest JF-17C in Azerbaijan are from latest batch 24, which means PAF had silently inducted 24 planes without any fanservice like Indians.
Delusions galore among our neigbours. 24 aircrafts in 5 years ....
Legate probably meant 24-323 as 24-322 landed in Azerbaijan for exercise
PAF is sending the latest variant of JF-17 to Azerbaijan. Despite not having sufficient numbers itself
Does PAF assume an air conflict with India is not on the horizon and forex needs take priority?
Or
PAF has decided JF-17 even in its latest form does not fit its combat needs?
Does PAF assume an air conflict with India is not on the horizon and forex needs take priority?
Or
PAF has decided JF-17 even in its latest form does not fit its combat needs?
Pakistan In Talks With TUSAŞ For F-16 Modernisation | AeroHaber | Aviation News, Tourism News And Defence News
The Pakistan Air Force is conducting comprehensive modernisation talks with Turkish Aerospace Industries for its ageing F-16 fleet. Details on UBAS and SLEP are covered in the article.
www.aerohaber.com
STRUCTURAL CRISIS AND TAI’S SLEP PROPOSAL
Sources close to the talks confirm that a senior PAF delegation visited TUSAŞ facilities in Kazan, Ankara, in October 2025. The main objective of the visit was to develop a Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) for the PAF’s oldest F-16s.At the centre of the issue are the Block-15 F-16A/B aircraft delivered between 1983 and 1987. Estimated to number between 55 and 60, these jets have reached around 40 years of service life and accumulated approximately 7,500–8,000 flight hours. Given their current structural condition, their retirement by 2030 is considered inevitable without significant intervention.
TUSAŞ has proposed a structural refurbishment package similar to the indigenous “Özgür” modernisation project, which extended the service life of the Turkish Air Force’s F-16 Block-30 fleet from 8,000 to 12,000 hours. Under the programme planned for Pakistan, the renewal of critical load-bearing components is envisaged, including:
- Wing carry-through structures
- Longitudinal spars
- Landing gear attachment points
A SOLUTION THAT BYPASSES US RESTRICTIONS: UBAS
One of the most critical elements of the proposed agreement is the integration of the Universal Battlefield Armament System (UBAS).Developed by TUSAŞ in cooperation with ASELSAN, UBAS offers an alternative to the restrictive source-code controls applied by Lockheed Martin on F-16s. The system is described as a “tablet-based” fire control interface that operates independently of the aircraft and bypasses the main mission computers.
Communicating directly with weapon stations via an open-architecture data bus, UBAS enables the integration of non-US munitions without US approval. This would allow Pakistan to equip its F-16 fleet with Turkish-made modern weapons.
Prominent munitions include:
- GÖKDOĞAN: An active radar-guided BVR air-to-air missile with a range exceeding 100 km (AIM-120 AMRAAM equivalent)
- BOZDOĞAN: A short-range missile with an imaging infrared seeker and high off-boresight capability (AIM-9X equivalent)
- Precision-guided bombs: JDAM-like HGK kits and laser/GPS-guided TEBER kits
2029 TARGET: 45 MODERNISED F-16s
If the Turkish–Pakistani cooperation, which officials say is “95 per cent complete,” is implemented, Pakistan aims to return approximately 45 modernised F-16s to active service by 2029.This solution is viewed as a temporary but critical bridge to maintain fleet strength until Pakistan’s AZM fifth-generation fighter programme matures in the mid-2030s.
PS: One Greek website says MURAD GaN radar by Aselsan could also be part of the upgrade.
Pakistan tests indigenously developed cruise missile
Taimoor Weapon System capable of engaging enemy land, sea targets with high precision at range of 600 kilometers, carrying conventional warhead, military says - Anadolu Ajansı
www.aa.com.tr
So Ra'ad-II has a new name ?
I was in school when F 16 first came to Pakistan..Pakistan In Talks With TUSAŞ For F-16 Modernisation | AeroHaber | Aviation News, Tourism News And Defence News
The Pakistan Air Force is conducting comprehensive modernisation talks with Turkish Aerospace Industries for its ageing F-16 fleet. Details on UBAS and SLEP are covered in the article.
STRUCTURAL CRISIS AND TAI’S SLEP PROPOSAL
Sources close to the talks confirm that a senior PAF delegation visited TUSAŞ facilities in Kazan, Ankara, in October 2025. The main objective of the visit was to develop a Service Life Extension Program (SLEP) for the PAF’s oldest F-16s.
At the centre of the issue are the Block-15 F-16A/B aircraft delivered between 1983 and 1987. Estimated to number between 55 and 60, these jets have reached around 40 years of service life and accumulated approximately 7,500–8,000 flight hours. Given their current structural condition, their retirement by 2030 is considered inevitable without significant intervention.
TUSAŞ has proposed a structural refurbishment package similar to the indigenous “Özgür” modernisation project, which extended the service life of the Turkish Air Force’s F-16 Block-30 fleet from 8,000 to 12,000 hours. Under the programme planned for Pakistan, the renewal of critical load-bearing components is envisaged, including:
To save time and ensure technology transfer, the modernisation is planned to be carried out at Pakistan’s F-16 maintenance facility in Kamra, using Turkish-made structural kits.
- Wing carry-through structures
- Longitudinal spars
- Landing gear attachment points
A SOLUTION THAT BYPASSES US RESTRICTIONS: UBAS
One of the most critical elements of the proposed agreement is the integration of the Universal Battlefield Armament System (UBAS).
Developed by TUSAŞ in cooperation with ASELSAN, UBAS offers an alternative to the restrictive source-code controls applied by Lockheed Martin on F-16s. The system is described as a “tablet-based” fire control interface that operates independently of the aircraft and bypasses the main mission computers.
Communicating directly with weapon stations via an open-architecture data bus, UBAS enables the integration of non-US munitions without US approval. This would allow Pakistan to equip its F-16 fleet with Turkish-made modern weapons.
Prominent munitions include:
Open-source reports indicate that Turkey has successfully tested these munitions both on its own F-16s and on the Kızılelma unmanned combat aircraft, with the systems having reached operational maturity.
- GÖKDOĞAN: An active radar-guided BVR air-to-air missile with a range exceeding 100 km (AIM-120 AMRAAM equivalent)
- BOZDOĞAN: A short-range missile with an imaging infrared seeker and high off-boresight capability (AIM-9X equivalent)
- Precision-guided bombs: JDAM-like HGK kits and laser/GPS-guided TEBER kits
2029 TARGET: 45 MODERNISED F-16s
If the Turkish–Pakistani cooperation, which officials say is “95 per cent complete,” is implemented, Pakistan aims to return approximately 45 modernised F-16s to active service by 2029.
This solution is viewed as a temporary but critical bridge to maintain fleet strength until Pakistan’s AZM fifth-generation fighter programme matures in the mid-2030s.
PS: One Greek website says MURAD GaN radar by Aselsan could also be part of the upgrade.
I still remember buying F 16 chips, F 16 bubble gum , from my school canteen.
Pakistan has a significant backlog of aircrafts in need of retirement.
20 F 16 Block 52
20 J-20c
130 JF 17.
Thats around 170 modern jets.
The rest of the fleet should have been retired long ago.
Specially those mirages need to go.
