Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
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He has an inferiority complex when it comes to the F-35. Every time Rafail goes up against F-35 in export competition it loses. The only customers for the frenchy fighter are nations that weren't offer the F-35. He's also trying to deflect from the devastating report that rafale is a lacking fighter that report kinda mind fked many fanboys royally. Then you add rafale getting shot down in air to air combat... well hercv is having a bad time and it makes a person mental.
Dassault likes to lose contracts against the F-35 the way it lost in the United Arab Emirates where France won the largest french export contract of all time.
Numb nuts sleepy Joe administration monkey wrenched the F-35 deal made by Trump so UAE had no choice but to select french sloppy seconds.
Abu Dhabi, UAECNN —
The United Arab Emirates has suspended a multi-billion dollar deal to buy US-made F-35 fighter jets, in a sign of Abu Dhabi’s growing frustration with Washington’s attempts to limit Chinese technology sales to the oil-rich Gulf state.
“The UAE has informed the US that it will suspend discussions to acquire the F-35,” an Emirati official told CNN. “Technical requirements, sovereign operational restrictions, and cost/benefit analysis led to the re-assessment.”
“The UAE and US were working toward an understanding that would address mutual defense security conditions for the acquisition,” the official added. “The US remains the UAE’s preferred provider for advanced defense requirements and discussions for the F-35 may be re-opened in the future.”
There was never a competition. You believe there was a competition because you frenchies decided to Jedi mind trick yourselves into believing there was to stroke that fragile ego of yours.
UAE selected the F-35 never really looking at your cute 4th gen fighter until Biden blew the deal. Get that through your head.
It's also that the FCAS is looking less likely every day, They are going to be stuck with 4th gen Rafale F5,6,7,8, While everyone else is 5th and 6th gen
The french guys are having a melt-down
A while back he posted the same cht about the F-35C having the rust look on top and then I think it was you (i forgot) posted an image of Rafale on its carrier with the same brown rust oil slick look and never brought it up again. I need to find that image and post it.
Can the coating of f35C still maintain its radar absorbing properties without major or significant decrease?
ChatGPT :
The F-35 Lightning II has several layers of stealth coating (also known as coatings or RAM for Radar-Absorbing Material), but the exact number of layers is not entirely public, as this is sensitive information related to stealth.
Here is what we know for sure:
1. Stealth surface coating (RAM)
This is a layer of radar-absorbing material applied to the entire exterior surface. This coating is not a simple paint, but a combination of complex multi-layer coatings, sometimes integrated directly into the composite structure of the aircraft.
2. Exterior paint
In addition to its stealth properties, exterior paint also serves to protect against corrosion, reduce infrared emissions, and improve visual discretion.
3. Technical name: “primer” (anti-corrosion primer)
What it does: Protects aluminum, titanium, and composite materials from corrosion and environmental damage during construction. Also serves as an adhesive for paint or stealth coating layers applied later.
What it's made of: Often based on zinc chromate, a highly effective anti-corrosion compound. This green color is typical of this type of primer in aeronautics (it is also found on civil and military aircraft during assembly).
Why we don't see it on finished aircraft: Once the aircraft is ready to leave the factory, the RAM stealth coating is applied on top. Then a final coat of special gray paint (the famous “Have Glass” color, with stealth and reduced IR properties) is applied.
4. Special treatments on leading edges and air intakes
These areas are often covered with additional layers or special stealth materials.
Estimated number of layers:
Although the exact figure is classified, estimate are that 3 to 5 layers of composite materials and coatings are used on surfaces critical to stealth, with variations depending on the area of the aircraft.
ChatGPT :
When corrosion marks are visible on an F-35, which coating is affected?
In general, if corrosion is visible on an F-35, it means that several protective layers have already been compromised, including:
1. Final layer: Stealth coating / RAM
This is the first layer to be exposed to the environment (rain, sand, salt, UV rays). It can degrade or crack over time, due to maneuvers or wear and tear. If it is damaged, it allows moisture to pass through to the inner layers.
2. Anti-corrosion primer
Just below the RAM coating. If the stealth coating is damaged but the primer is intact, corrosion does not develop immediately. But if the primer is also damaged (or was poorly applied in the first place), then the metal surfaces begin to corrode.
3. Structural materials (aluminum, titanium, etc.)
These are the basic materials used in aircraft construction. Some components of the F-35 are still made of aluminum alloy, which is more susceptible to corrosion, especially in saline environments (e.g., marine).
What this means:
If visible corrosion is seen on an F-35, it means that the stealth coating and anti-corrosion primer are damaged, exposing the internal metal structure to the environment.
Why this is a big problem on an F-35:
Exposure to corrosion impairs stealth (uneven surface, altered radar reflectivity). This reduces the longevity of components. Repair is time-consuming, costly, and delicate (the stealth coating must be reapplied perfectly).
When corrosion marks are visible on an F-35, which coating is affected?
In general, if corrosion is visible on an F-35, it means that several protective layers have already been compromised, including:
1. Final layer: Stealth coating / RAM
This is the first layer to be exposed to the environment (rain, sand, salt, UV rays). It can degrade or crack over time, due to maneuvers or wear and tear. If it is damaged, it allows moisture to pass through to the inner layers.
2. Anti-corrosion primerJust below the RAM coating. If the stealth coating is damaged but the primer is intact, corrosion does not develop immediately. But if the primer is also damaged (or was poorly applied in the first place), then the metal surfaces begin to corrode.
3. Structural materials (aluminum, titanium, etc.)These are the basic materials used in aircraft construction. Some components of the F-35 are still made of aluminum alloy, which is more susceptible to corrosion, especially in saline environments (e.g., marine).
What this means:If visible corrosion is seen on an F-35, it means that the stealth coating and anti-corrosion primer are damaged, exposing the internal metal structure to the environment.
Why this is a big problem on an F-35:Exposure to corrosion impairs stealth (uneven surface, altered radar reflectivity). This reduces the longevity of components. Repair is time-consuming, costly, and delicate (the stealth coating must be reapplied perfectly).
Here are some picture with visible corrosion on F-35 :
The solution to it is simple. Have a de salination plant aboard those ACs . They have the power to run those plants. The objective should be de salinate the waters in the immediate vicinity of the AC . Problem solved.
Please don't expect LM to come up with a better quality of Anti Corrosive or better RAM coated paints. If it were so easy do you think the F-35 project would be in the shape it is in.
Hence what I've suggested is the ideal solution. Ja , sweetie ? @Innominate
First 2 pics are F-22's and are the non combat coded that are used at air shows and training.
It can. In combat they will be using passive-ish and offensive EW.
Poor Herciv can't tell the difference between a F-22 and F-35, his last post has two pictures of F-22 and one F-35C the boat, on deployment,
What you are looking at it the last protective coat for the Infrared reduction, It's superficial damage "The JPO emphasizes that these changes do not indicate structural damage or a degradation of the aircraft’s stealth capabilities." "Stealth" includes the IR coatings
Herciv actually put up a decent link, that he didn't understand, Go back and read it, Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
If you have any questions, I may be able to answer them
The RCS is baked into the layers of the laminate and is a part of it, It's unaffected
"The F-35 has a fibermat radar-absorbent material (RAM) baked into the skin, which is more durable, easier to work with, and faster to cure than older RAM coatings; similar coatings are being considered for application on older stealth aircraft such as the F-22."
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No wonder you are clueless ChatGPTChatGPT :
When corrosion marks are visible on an F-35, which coating is affected?
In general, if corrosion is visible on an F-35, it means that several protective layers have already been compromised, including:
1. Final layer: Stealth coating / RAM
This is the first layer to be exposed to the environment (rain, sand, salt, UV rays). It can degrade or crack over time, due to maneuvers or wear and tear. If it is damaged, it allows moisture to pass through to the inner layers.
Just below the RAM coating. If the stealth coating is damaged but the primer is intact, corrosion does not develop immediately. But if the primer is also damaged (or was poorly applied in the first place), then the metal surfaces begin to corrode.
These are the basic materials used in aircraft construction. Some components of the F-35 are still made of aluminum alloy, which is more susceptible to corrosion, especially in saline environments (e.g., marine).
If visible corrosion is seen on agptn F-35, it means that the stealth coating and anti-corrosion primer are damaged, exposing the internal metal structure to the environment.
Exposure to corrosion impairs stealth (uneven surface, altered radar reflectivity). This reduces the longevity of components. Repair is time-consuming, costly, and delicate (the stealth coating must be reapplied perfectly).
Rust is not as good of a absorber as ram.
Even if ram remains intact, now there is a thin layer between ram and incoming radar waves, thin layer that will interact with the incoming radar wave first, that will reflect and scatter a lot more percentage of radar waves compared to if radar waves had interacted with ram from start.
So even if ram is not damaged some degradation in rcs will happen due to rust, dependent on how thick the rust layer is.
This also the reason we see most of rust in f35c on its dorsal spine, not on its front only few mini patches of very thin rust ( rust from those area most likely cleaned mostly).
Like if we cover an f35 with a thin transparent layer plastic sheet while ram of f35 remain intact, its stealth would degrade by leaps and bounds.
Even if we take very moderate degradation in detection range, the f35c's stealth in that case most likely degraded to j-20 level of stealth at the minimum.
It's not rust, Read herciv link, you are looking at superficial discoloration,
"According to a statement from the program’s public affairs office, the issue has become particularly noticeable due to surface discoloration observed after deployment, especially under demanding operating conditions. The JPO emphasizes that these changes do not indicate structural damage or a degradation of the aircraft’s stealth capabilities.
The agency clarified that many of the surface changes perceived by the public as damage – such as discoloration after deployment – do not negatively impact the aircraft’s condition. F-35 jets are frequently exposed to harsh environments during naval operations, including constant contact with saltwater, contamination from lubricants and other fluids, and proximity to rotor wash and cleaning activities. These factors can lead to wear or discoloration of the coating, but they do not compromise the structural integrity or stealth performance of the aircraft.
To address the issue, the F-35 Joint Program Office has developed a new coating designed to significantly reduce or eliminate discoloration, improve wear resistance, and extend the coating’s lifespan. This new finish will be applied during routine maintenance cycles, following a process similar to how coatings are refreshed on both commercial and military aircraft."
In the link it talks about what real corrosion is
"One of the core challenges with corrosion is that it’s often not immediately visible. As explained by a program officer, corrosion doesn’t typically trigger obvious signs of malfunction, and its effects can be hidden beneath surface coatings or within joints and seams. The F-35’s construction – using a mix of aluminum, titanium, and carbon composites – can create conditions for galvanic corrosion, particularly in humid and salty environments.
The F-35 Joint Program Office has made corrosion control a strategic priority, implementing a coordinated approach to reduce long-term risks to the fleet. Initially, the program lacked a well-structured system to manage this issue, which led to a reactive posture as the aircraft aged. Recent improvements now include a more organized strategy, supported by dedicated engineering and technical teams. The goal is to ensure that each aircraft meets established standards and remains consistently ready for operational deployment."
Significantly reduce or eliminate "discoloration".
So this "discoloration" does seem to have negative effect, on most likely its rcs( it ain't gonna affect aerodynamicsc at all).
Hence the development of new coating to reduce or eliminate "discoloration ".
Did you mean does or doesn't?
I don't know if they can say it clearer than this "The JPO emphasizes that these changes do not indicate structural damage or a degradation of the aircraft’s stealth capabilities."
I don't know if you have worked it out yet, The french guys will put up a link and then say the opposite of what is in it, Anything to make the Rafale sound wonderful and the F-35 rubbish
My question is not related to rafale vs f35.
My position is stealth being crucial for tip of the spear role in modern aerial warfare.
But if that discoloration doesn't harm, then why are they spending time and resources to get rid or minimise that discoloration?
He'll believe an AI over a French fighter pilot who made a devastating report how much rafale lacks. Delusional he is.... but then again so are the rest of the french rafale fanboy club. pic-oil's delusion is UAE had a competition between F-35 and rafale and rafale won even though that is a complete lie no competition ever took place but in his degraded mind it did.No wonder you are clueless ChatGPT