Indian Hypersonic Propulsion Developments

[RationalGuy]

As per DRDO chief it shall be ready for induction within next 2-3 years:

India’s Hypersonic Glide Missile To Be Ready In 2–3 Years: DRDO Chief

India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has made significant progress in the development of hypersonic weapons, with pa...

www.indiandefensenews.in

PS: Gotta remember that Project Dhvani consists of multiple HGVs and not just of one type. So you'll see Conical, Winged and Blended-Body HGVs deployed under this project. The last one is ready for test by the looks of it. My guess would be that within this very decade all these HGVs would be operationally deployed and combat ready.

Agni 5 with Dhvani can reach 10,000 km or more probably! But of course our DRDO people will say "5,000 km wonly sar".

 

[RationalGuy]

It's High time the govt should allow the TOT of pralay missile to private player, we really need them in masses, ASAP we will move to integrated rocket force the better it would be,

People here have told me Pralay can reach Mach 6 and has fins to maneuver to spread the heat as well as evade BMD....imo just 5 or 6 of these can defeat Hoe Qock 19 that our resident Han and Pakistanis have so much confidence in. We need this and LrHASM in numbers.

 

[babablacksheep]

It can't be a cruise missile without turbojet/ramjet/scramjet engine . Of course, your point is well understood but just assume that LRAShM uses the second stage sustainer motor to glide just like a Waver-rider but to keep the terminal energy and manoeuvrability really high. It's really a very novel concept and definitely builds upon K-15 experience.

The "cruise" part is a flight profile, while it has become synonymous with airbreathing engine, but ultimately its a flight profile.
"Maintaining relatively constant speed at relatively constant altitude for relatively long/significant duration".
If you can achieve these parameters using another method of propulsion instead of air breathing than your article/object is cruising.

As for "gliding", LRASHM is shaped more like a AAM,SM-6 etc than a glide body, I Don't think it has good enough L/D ratio for it to be considered a glide vehicle of any sort.
And from the description @CATS @hunter quoting drdo scientists, it flies more similar to k15/shaurya than an hgv or RV.

 

[babablacksheep]

P

People here have told me Pralay can reach Mach 6 and has fins to maneuver to spread the heat as well as evade BMD....imo just 5 or 6 of these can defeat Hoe Qock 19 that our resident Han and Pakistanis have so much confidence in. We need this and LrHASM in numbers.

Pralay is basically an HCM, but uses rocket motor( lot less efficient method of propulsion than airbreathing scramjet, hence penalty in terms of range/size/weight/combination of these) instead of scramjet.
A scramjet powered missile with similar range of ~500km will be lot lighter than 5ton mtow pralay, around 3-3.5 Ton.



Qock 19 needs to be able intercept HCM's if it wishes to intercept pralay.

 

[RationalGuy]

P

Pralay is basically an HCM, but uses rocket motor( lot less efficient method of propulsion than airbreathing scramjet, hence penalty in terms of range/size/weight/combination of these) instead of scramjet.
A scramjet powered missile with similar range of ~500km will be lot lighter than 5ton mtow pralay, around 3-3.5 Ton.



Qock 19 needs to be able intercept HCM's if it wishes to intercept pralay.

Sir according to Cheenes HQ19 is like THAAD it can intercept terminal projectiles, it can also intercept Hypersonic projectiles of both classes, glide and cruise and it can intercept supersonic cruise missiles . They themselves can't decide what it's actual job is, their claims regarding its capability changes on an even or odd day.

 

[marich01]

Agni 5 with Dhvani can reach 10,000 km or more probably! But of course our DRDO people will say "5,000 km wonly sar".

No, DRDO claim has been consistently scientific, 5500km+ . This goes for old metallic stage A5 and new gen A5mk2 with all crmc stages. Progress has happened step by step and multi disciplinary.

Pralay is basically an HCM, but uses rocket motor( lot less efficient method of propulsion than airbreathing scramjet, hence penalty in terms of range/size/weight/combination of these) instead of scramjet.

Not at all, its a solid fuel based tactical ballistic missile with multi trajectory. You will find almost all other systems trajectory planning information in open literature, except this one. Just like Iskander, Pralay due to its sensitive role has been kept well secret.

 

[marich01]

My comment was based on this poster,

The poster pic is simply representative. Actual flight trajectory of this is quite differently planned.

 

[marich01]

The design of LRAShM is something different from the traditional HGV,

Its the very basic glide profile design where lift is generated via the X cruciform control surface. DRDO has very good experience on this so we go at the first step into HGV flight with proven aerodynamic config while retaining very good maneuvering ability. This is also evident from 2 things.
First, the booster is much smaller compared to other ballistic systems. So the primary role would be to gain just enough height for glide phase to begin.
Second, top speed is 3.3km/s which can be attained within a 70km apogee and from that level it can glide between different density atmospheric level by losing altitude. The upper atmos its too thin so need to lose altitude anyway.

 

[babablacksheep]

Its the very basic glide profile design where lift is generated via the X cruciform control surface. DRDO has very good experience on this so we go at the first step into HGV flight with proven aerodynamic config while retaining very good maneuvering ability. This is also evident from 2 things.
First, the booster is much smaller compared to other ballistic systems. So the primary role would be to gain just enough height for glide phase to begin.
Second, top speed is 3.3km/s which can be attained within a 70km apogee and from that level it can glide between different density atmospheric level by losing altitude. The upper atmos its too thin so need to lose altitude anyway.

So this?

Gradually loosing altitude like an HGV.


Or
This.
Relatively Steep dive, then sustained cruise/flight at lower altitude?

 

[Chicu01]

BM

Shaurya & K-15 never leaves the atmosphere , neither does the new glider. if something leaves the 80-100km atmospheric level, it would need/look like the reentry vehicle on BM-04 and/or a high heat withstanding blunt nose cap.

BM-04 can also fly a pure depressed trajectory without leaving the atmosphere.

 

[marich01]

So this?

Won't say how or why because I do not have full information available, but that sort of steep dive is for fixed land target, ships are hit broadside generally even if its a big carrier. So 80deg + steep attack unlikely for a moving target. To engage a carrier size (slow) moving and heavily defended object successfully , very specific & precise engagement mode is needed.

BM

BM-04 can also fly a pure depressed trajectory without leaving the atmosphere.

The rv needs to get released so its up to user how to make it fly.

 

[babablacksheep]

but that sort of steep dive is for fixed land targe

I'd like to clarify for other people reading this, the "Steep dive" he mentioned is the terminal dive I showed in both graphs, not the initial "relatively steep dive/decent" in lower graph.
****though, I was asking, does LRASHM decent fast from apogee to lower altitude ~40km( 30-50km range) and then sustain that altitude range for most of its horizontal flight distance as it flies towards it's target.

Or does it slowly decent in altitude as it flies towards/reaches it's target.****

No answer i guess.

 

[marich01]

I'd like to clarify for other people reading this, the "Steep dive" he mentioned is the terminal dive I showed in both graphs, not the initial "relatively steep dive/decent" in lower graph.
****though, I was asking, does LRASHM decent fast from apogee to lower altitude ~40km( 30-50km range) and then sustain that altitude range for most of its horizontal flight distance as it flies towards it's target.

Or does it slowly decent in altitude as it flies towards/reaches it's target.****

No answer i guess.

It has a seeker and will have to work against a very high value asset heavily defended in a group, that is enough hint imo.

 

[babablacksheep]

It has a seeker and will have to work against a very high value asset heavily defended in a group, that is enough hint imo.

Then I assume, it's flight profile takes into account altitude hugging, to minimize detection from ship radars, atleast till it has covered significant distance to the target.

 

[CATS @hunter]

Sir according to Cheenes HQ19 is like THAAD it can intercept terminal projectiles, it can also intercept Hypersonic projectiles of both classes, glide and cruise and it can intercept supersonic cruise missiles . They themselves can't decide what it's actual job is, their claims regarding its capability changes on an even or odd day.

Even THAAD finds difficulties to intercept HGV & MARV, intercepting hypersonic weapons would require multiple systems, Americans use various interceptors, from GMD, SM-3 to PAC-3 and SM-6 in terminal stage,
A missile who can change it's trajectory multiple times would be lot harder, until we got AD-AH, AD-AM, till then we are not safe,

 

[Rajput Lion]

With India developing multiple HGVs(conical, blended, winged et al), all with different speed, trajectory and flight profile; our enemy(ies) shall be extremely confused regarding what was fired towards them and how to intercept 'em. Also think about our multiple HCM programmes and the enemy is then royally effed. Lol.

 

[RationalGuy]

Even THAAD finds difficulties to intercept HGV & MARV, intercepting hypersonic weapons would require multiple systems, Americans use various interceptors, from GMD, SM-3 to PAC-3 and SM-6 in terminal stage,
A missile who can change it's trajectory multiple times would be lot harder, until we got AD-AH, AD-AM, till then we are not safe,

Which is why I LOL when Cheenis and Pakistanis boast about how HQ19 can intercept every Indian missile. It won't even be able to handle Pralays or Prithvis imo. If we launch BM04, LRHASM, or Brahmos, they're cooked.

 

[jmaxwell_]

Per wiki, Iran's claim that Fattah-1 is an HGV is debated. Does India field anything equivalent to Fattah-1?
Would Shaurya be considered similar (though perhaps not matching Mach 13+ speeds)?

 

[babablacksheep]

Per wiki, Iran's claim that Fattah-1 is an HGV is debated. Does India field anything equivalent to Fattah-1?
Would Shaurya be considered similar (though perhaps not matching Mach 13+ speeds)?

Google Image Result for http://missilethreat.csis.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Agni-II.jpg

Agni 2, inducted in 2004.
Way ahead of its time.
US dark eagle is a recent similar system to Agni 2, where re-entry vehicles behaves more similar to an hgv than a Marv.

A French company also revealed a similar system concept recently

https://twitter.com/x/status/1935716802824216990

 

[marich01]

Then I assume, it's flight profile takes into account altitude hugging, to minimize detection from ship radars, atleast till it has covered significant distance to the target.

When you are flying a long distance to strike very high value asset that is also mobile over the oceans , at least 2 primary conditions need to be met
first , the flight altitude should be where enemy seaborne AD/bmd can not reach ie greater than 25km altitude. Most area ad/LRSAM systems won't be able to climb 25-30km at all esp the ones on ship.
2nd, since a very long distance covered to fetch and strike over general sea area , the endgame phase needs a seeker else it is impossible to precision target.

aka the HBGV general config would be (for majority of the flight after the boost phase)