Yeah, Pak “soft-killed” Brahmos, so it took out their runway, else it was going for “failed marshmallow - a** - in - paneer’s” flat! IYKYK
Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan
- Thread starter Defc0n
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, Pak “soft-killed” Brahmos, so it took out their runway, else it was going for “failed marshmallow - a** - in - paneer’s” flat! IYKYK
The world friendliness campaign or appeasement thing has failed. Apparently you need to be aggressive and need extensive planning for all scenarios in war. Another lesson for the govt. Who knew that these would need to be spelled out loud.
To the Indian, Pakistani, and Chinese "defence" enthusiasts/analysts telling Indians that their missiles missed and hit runways or they were needlessly targeted forget that apparently all fighter jets of PAF need runways for takeoff. Even I was shocked when I discovered this fact. However, I have come to terms with it. Please let this stew in your mind and you will be "blown" away by this tactic to target runways.
Been giving the tweet of us going in for another few regiments of S-400 & possibly the Su-57 more thought.
Regarding the former , it's a must for the Kusha series of PGLRSAM won't be in full fledged production till the early 2030s . The other projects you've named viz : two AD missiles known as ADAH(anti HGV) and ADAM(anti HCM) are probably due in the mid 2030s .
We need them NOW or at any rate in substantial qtys before 2030. If we can't ensure that , it's better we go in for alternatives . The S-400 or S-450 or even S-500 is as good as it gets.
Not only should we go in for an additional 2-3 regiments as reported but I'd go as far to say we need to go in for 4-5 regiments of a motley mixture of different categories of it PLUS & this is important , we need to go in for local production of those missiles especially the LR ones in the thousands.
Need action on this pronto.
As far as the Su-57 goes , there's no anti stealth FA at present within our reach as the former. The only issue then to consider is whether it truly has those anti stealth capabilities the Russians have been claiming or is it more hype than substance.
IAF needs to check it out though as I've remarked before I'm sure given our close relationship with Russia , we'd be in the loop about the improvements regarding the development of the Su-57 program & the IAF would've checked these out before .
All we need to ensure is immediate delivery , no monkey models in either the platform or the armaments & avionics it carries , assured supply of spares , sanitation against Chinese parts & we're good to go.
We could split up the mfg process too. Get a couple of squadrons from Russia & mfg with the usual ToT 2 squadrons at HAL Nashik with the option for more .
We ought to avoid the temptation to tinker around much with the system as it'd be a time consuming process & time is a luxury we can't afford at the present as we're running against it .
Only a matter of time. Heck, even the NoKo regime has showed off a DF-17 style RV recently (they've even cloned the RQ-4 but that's a different story). The Chinese often supply dual-use machinery for Pak mil R&D orgs with some shipments going thru Indian ports. Imo, we need to test and deploy both HGV and HCM inside of 2030. In the next decade, the PLAN will be a direct threat to us in the IOR.
Pak-bound ship from China stopped at Mumbai port over suspected nuclear cargo
Security agencies had stopped a ship bound for Karachi from China at Mumbai’s Nhava Sheva port in January. They suspected the ship might be carrying items for Pakistan’s nuclear and ballistic missile programme.
Pakistan's hypersonic missiles will have counters in place soon. The issue for them is their lack of strategic depth prevents stealth launches. We will soon have sufficient satellites to pick up any launch they attempt. Once the launch is detected, countermeasures can adapt to it quite quickly.
China is much more harder 'cause we need a large number of satellites to scour the planet, land, air, and sea, to detect launches and predict flight paths. That's the purpose of the American Golden Dome as well, plus it will even kill from orbit.
Israel needs a sat network to stop hypersonic missiles, and they are unlikely to get one of their own. That's the problem. Warfare is now in the domain of the rich. For now it's only in space, pretty soon it will enter the air domain followed by land domain. The naval domain has been for the rich-only for many decades now due to SSNs and carriers. We will eventually see systems in place where if you do not have a full defense-industrial ecosystem in all domains, you cannot fight wars at all, not even insurgencies.
I was referring to the first day when Rafales were apparently lost and the IAF did not cross the border or shoot AAMs across the border.
Meteor won't do well from low altitudes compared to MICA. Even the French do not play on relying on Meteors against fighters. They only bought 200 for HVAs. So it's more suitable for top cover, OCA, DCA etc. MICA is also better in the anti-missile role.
Yea not gonna be worried if Iran gives their missile technology to Pakistan lol. China is a different matter. If was long and hard for them to develop DF ZF and DF 17. So they won't give it directly but they will give something similar, a scaled down version and probably the conical hypersonic vehicle (DF26?) to Pak. As I said we need space based satellites constantly tracking these projectiles and make them interface with AD AH, S500 and Kusha. These projectiles produce a lot of heat so developing the satellites which can track them through the heat they produce is hard indeed but probably not beyond our capability. The US is already making such a system. @randomradio @Ashwin @Rajput Lion @Parthu do you guys reckon some of the 52 sats we are launching now will have HGV detection capabilities? Sorry if I asked this question before
HGV detection is subject to the sensors rather than a role-specific anti-HGV satellite. We need SAR, EO/IR, and hyperspectral satellites with sufficient resolution and these constellations will fulfill all our needs. They need to be networked and sensor fused too. So it's a tall task.
Our goal in Pakistan is to remove the govt and army from power, breakup Pakistan, and still retain the goodwill of the people in a post-Pak system. We have no intentions of taking or destroying cities. Iran wants to kill all Jews. Our goals are different.
That's the reality of today's world. The IAF stayed quiet even after their attacks on terror bases in Pak, whereas when Israel attacked Iran's northwest bases, sat images were out in a matter of hours.
The faster you release crucial information, the less space you give the adversary to control the narrative.
What should have happened... By the time people were waking up in India after the first attack, the IAF should have released day time sat images of all targets first thing in the morning, before the Chi-Pak media conglomerate could push their narrative. 'Cause as far as the mango man is concerned... "Ah, we did something last night but all I know is we lost jets 'cause the media is saying it."
The front page of newspapers should have carried two sat images of the terror bases in Bhawalpur and Muridke on day 1. This was well within the ability of the IAF to do.
We have an image of BS 014 carrying Meteor.
It seems our PLA friends have decided to lend a hand to the IRGC. Similar moves were made during the May conflict if folks remember. Interesting times ahead. I am sure the Israelis' were kind of expecting this already. OSINT is confirming the cargo has already reached/landed.
This is in addition to the help that is already being provided in terms of ELINT etc.
This is in addition to the help that is already being provided in terms of ELINT etc.
Without the knowing about how ISE are supllied, by who and without having more precision we have to be confident in IAF know-how with Dassault.
IAF has also recognized a tactical fault. But its pilote is alived and just 3 days later the tactical success was such clear that it could be transform by Modi as a strategical success.
Pakistan is no more consistent on the international scene for several years.
At the end you have to recognize from where come this sucess. Can it come from the rafale alone, from the mki alone, scalp alone or brahmos alone or has IAF found a perfect coordination between all of their assets ?
Last edited:
Do you realized that with less fighter than Isreali Air Force you have achieved a much bigger sucess in only few hours ?
Have you read the last cooper paper and how efficient your IAF are compared to the Israeli Air Force especially againt deep installations ?
Have you read the last cooper paper and how efficient your IAF are compared to the Israeli Air Force especially againt deep installations ?
IAF ie Indian Air Force fought an adversary which is well equipped and well trained ie PAF
Their friend CHINA was giving them real time satellite information of IAF planes taking off from Their bases
This has been confirmed by Air Marshal Ashutosh Dixit in a recent seminar on Surveillance Technologies in Delhi
In comparison Israel had to face very degraded SAMs and No AWACS and No fighters far away on Iranian territory
Other than Refueling Israel had no challenges
And Israel has the full support of US and Gulf Allies
No one is saying that Su-30MKI did it all by itself. Of course, it was a team-effort. But not having Meteor operational(if the reports are correct) in our Rafales is a major problem especially if our enemy was equipped with a 200kms range BVR missile, IMO.
It is 2025 and by now all ISE should have been completed. If it is not, then whose fault is it? Dassault? Anybody's guess.
What if Rafale did shoot PAF fighters on the first day(6th night/7th morning) itself
We have Russian fighters but we don't fight with their tactics. Time for us to ditch this French tactic of low-flying Rafales ambushing and surprising enemy fighters with MICA-IR/RF. If you remember, I said to you in the Pahalgam thread that Erieye would track low-flying Rafales/M-2000, so low-flying could be problematic.
Meteor is used as a primary BVR by UK not only as a HVA killer. We need to follow them. Yes, it is bloody expensive but forcing the enemy fighters back could have reduced our attrition rate.
If you remember IAF also wanted Meteor on its MKI fleet but it was denied by MBDA. It wasn't just for killing HVAs but as its primary BVR(to gain advantage over PAF & PLAAF fighters in a BVR duel). Anyways, since we learnt from our day 1 fight, Meteors would have been unleashed by our Rafales during subsequent fightings. But the reports of it still not being operational is definitely downright pathetic. No exuses, just French not living up to their promise as @vstol Jockey has pointed out.
I was the first person who debunked the theory that Rafale had been shot down. I had very detailed argument with @randomradio abt it. I told him that no Rafale has been shot down. Yet my very dear friends from France called me a guy against Rafale. I have always maintained that SU-30MKI is superior to Rafale. But Rafale was superior to every other jet offered to us under MRFA. I still maintain that. My unhappiness about Rafale was not abt it as an ac but about its limited weapon carriage and lack of variety of weapons which could be used for stand off strikes. AND I was misunderstood. Either my friends from France agree to the defence I put up to say that NO Rafale was shot down or blame me for being anti Rafale. on 7th night Rafale did shoot down a PAF ac using MICA as SPECTRA was in full blossom. and worked as it was designed.What if Rafale did shoot PAF fighters on the first day(6th night/7th morning) itself
We have Russian fighters but we don't fight with their tactics. Time for us to ditch this French tactic of low-flying Rafales ambushing and surprising enemy fighters with MICA-IR/RF. If you remember, I said to you in the Pahalgam thread that Erieye would track low-flying Rafales/M-2000, so low-flying could be problematic.
Meteor is used as a primary BVR by UK not only as a HVA killer. We need to follow them. Yes, it is bloody expensive but forcing the enemy fighters back could have reduced our attrition rate.
If you remember IAF also wanted Meteor on its MKI fleet but it was denied by MBDA. It wasn't just for killing HVAs but as its primary BVR(to gain advantage over PAF & PLAAF fighters ina BVR duel). Anyways, since we learned from our day 1 fight, Meteors would have been unleashed by our Rafales during subsequent fightings. But the reports of it still not being operational is definitely downright pathetic. No exuses, just French not living up to their promise as @vstol Jockey has pointed out.
- Status