Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan

[TARGET]

Yea not gonna be worried if Iran gives their missile technology to Pakistan lol. China is a different matter. If was long and hard for them to develop DF ZF and DF 17. So they won't give it directly but they will give something similar, a scaled down version and probably the conical hypersonic vehicle (DF26?) to Pak. As I said we need space based satellites constantly tracking these projectiles and make them interface with AD AH, S500 and Kusha. These projectiles produce a lot of heat so developing the satellites which can track them through the heat they produce is hard indeed but probably not beyond our capability. The US is already making such a system. @randomradio @Ashwin @Rajput Lion @Parthu do you guys reckon some of the 52 sats we are launching now will have HGV detection capabilities? Sorry if I asked this question before

Yes, hypersonic ballistic missiles like the DF-17 and DF-26 are a concern for India, if not from Pakistan; from China, it's for sure.

Pakistan launching ballistic missiles is different from Iran launching ballistic/hypersonic missiles. The missile is always difficult to intercept in the terminal phase when the warhead will be flying at hypersonic speeds. The best place to intercept is in the boost or ascent phase. Since the Pakistanis don't have depth, we can identify it in the boost phase and intercept it in the midcourse stage. But the question is, can we protect ourselves from the volley of 80 to 100 missiles fired at one time? Is our IADC (Integrated Air Defense Command) able to do the queuing and take the necessary action within the given time interval? That needs to be verified.

From the last conflict, we came to know hitting Pakistan is not a problem for the IAF. IAF servicemen also didn't care what missile they were loading into the fighter plane, as they had complete dominance after hitting their command center on 9th May at Nour Khan Airbase.

 

[randomradio]

What if Rafale did shoot PAF fighters on the first day(6th night/7th morning) itself

As per IAF, they did not. If RUMINT says otherwise, gotta wait for IAF release.

We have Russian fighters but we don't fight with their tactics. Time for us to ditch this French tactic of low-flying Rafales ambushing and surprising enemy fighters with MICA-IR/RF. If you remember, I said to you in the Pahalgam thread that Erieye would track low-flying Rafales/M-2000, so low-flying could be problematic.

If Erieye can track low flying jets even with EW, then med and high flying jets can't escape its net by default anyway.

Low flying is not a French tactic, everybody uses it.

Meteor is used as a primary BVR by UK not only as a HVA killer. We need to follow them. Yes, it is bloody expensive but forcing the enemy fighters back could have reduced our attrition rate.

For 36 jets we have 150 Meteors. For 150 jets, the French have 200 Meteors. So we are more serious about using the Meteor.

But if the Rafales were equipped for strike role and low altitude, the Meteors would be useless 'cause it would have almost the same range as MICA due to drag. MICA's high lift design with its more powerful motor and high G performance will give it better low-med altitude performance.

UK uses Meteor and AIM-120C7 in a hi-lo combo. They are yet to purchase the AIM-120D, it's in the process. The USAF use AIM-120D and AIM-120C5/7 in its hi-lo combo, and it's set to be replaced by AIM-260 and AIM-120D3.

If you remember IAF also wanted Meteor on its MKI fleet but it was denied by MBDA. It wasn't just for killing HVAs but as its primary BVR(to gain advantage over PAF & PLAAF fighters in a BVR duel). Anyways, since we learnt from our day 1 fight, Meteors would have been unleashed by our Rafales during subsequent fightings. But the reports of it still not being operational is definitely downright pathetic. No exuses, just French not living up to their promise as @vstol Jockey has pointed out.

Yeah, the MKI with Meteor in top cover, OCA, DCA etc would make sense. The same for Rafale. But if MKI is also in strike role and at low altitude, the Astra would be a better option. The USAF too primarily use AIM-120C for strike role. It's 'cause range is not as relevant at such altitudes. They use these missiles in direct fire mode, effectively the same range as WVR missiles.

 

[jk007]

View attachment 44482

Calm down.......also, use that blade to cut your same.

 

[RationalGuy]

Yes, hypersonic ballistic missiles like the DF-17 and DF-26 are a concern for India, if not from Pakistan; from China, it's for sure.

Pakistan launching ballistic missiles is different from Iran launching ballistic/hypersonic missiles. The missile is always difficult to intercept in the terminal phase when the warhead will be flying at hypersonic speeds. The best place to intercept is in the boost or ascent phase. Since the Pakistanis don't have depth, we can identify it in the boost phase and intercept it in the midcourse stage. But the question is, can we protect ourselves from the volley of 80 to 100 missiles fired at one time? Is our IADC (Integrated Air Defense Command) able to do the queuing and take the necessary action within the given time interval? That needs to be verified.

From the last conflict, we came to know hitting Pakistan is not a problem for the IAF. IAF servicemen also didn't care what missile they were loading into the fighter plane, as they had complete dominance after hitting their command center on 9th May at Nour Khan Airbase.

We need way more Kusha, Barak 8, Akash NG and AAD/PDV in order to intercept hundreds of ballistic missiles. We also need to focus on midcourse and pre midcourse interception. Not to mention our space based surevallaince and tracking capability also has to be robust.

HGV detection is subject to the sensors rather than a role-specific anti-HGV satellite. We need SAR, EO/IR, and hyperspectral satellites with sufficient resolution and these constellations will fulfill all our needs. They need to be networked and sensor fused too. So it's a tall task.

We have hyperspectral satellites through Pixxel but I am not sure if they are configured for HGV detection. By when do you think India can achieve this sesnor fused IAACS needed for HGV interception?

 

[Lolwa]

Yes, hypersonic ballistic missiles like the DF-17 and DF-26 are a concern for India, if not from Pakistan; from China, it's for sure.

Pakistan launching ballistic missiles is different from Iran launching ballistic/hypersonic missiles. The missile is always difficult to intercept in the terminal phase when the warhead will be flying at hypersonic speeds. The best place to intercept is in the boost or ascent phase. Since the Pakistanis don't have depth, we can identify it in the boost phase and intercept it in the midcourse stage. But the question is, can we protect ourselves from the volley of 80 to 100 missiles fired at one time? Is our IADC (Integrated Air Defense Command) able to do the queuing and take the necessary action within the given time interval? That needs to be verified.

From the last conflict, we came to know hitting Pakistan is not a problem for the IAF. IAF servicemen also didn't care what missile they were loading into the fighter plane, as they had complete dominance after hitting their command center on 9th May at Nour Khan Airbase.

The only real concern for India in the PLA are two missiles. One is DF-ZF the other is the yj-18. Rest can be easily handled by our IADS.

 

[Bon Plan]

I had very clearly told that Rafale in India have still not be upgraded as per ISE standards and now it is very open to all that even Meteor missiles have not been added to Rafale. DA had made a fool of IAF. They back trackked on providing assistance for Kaveri engine as well which was part of the offsets.

Why do the indian top brass and IAF pilots and generals so happy with Rafale if they are not complying with the contract ?

 

[Shan]

We will or we won't depends on $. The typical pakistani general. These "quom ke fackers" will not even give their own father a glass of water unless he hands over his savings. However, the average Pakistani
will never question this flip flop. Today it is 4 Rafales, tomorrow it can be 7 what's the big deal.

"Lawhoree" : We will change based on whoever pays the most.

'Pakistan will attack Israel with nuclear missile': Top Iranian official; can Shaheen-3 reach Tel Aviv? - Times of India

Middle East News: Senior Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) general and Iranian National Security Council member Mohsen Rezaei stated in an interview on Iranian s.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

https://www.business-standard.com/w...iranian-commander-s-claim-125061600487_1.html

 

[randomradio]

We have hyperspectral satellites through Pixxel but I am not sure if they are configured for HGV detection. By when do you think India can achieve this sesnor fused IAACS needed for HGV interception?

We need many dozens to cover the globe, 50-100. We need 5-6 in LEO just to cover Pakistan. And at least 2-3 in GEO over the Indo-Pacific.

Let's hope the process has already begun for the first set of launches next year for the first 52 satellites to completion by 2030 or so with 200-250 satellites of all categories. We need them to have a minimum of upper level 5G class speeds.

 

[TARGET]

The only real concern for India in the PLA are two missiles. One is DF-ZF the other is the yj-18. Rest can be easily handled by our IADS.

I don't think we should be worried about the missile type. The current scenario is a combination of missiles like we fired SCALP with BrahMos. So if Pakistan fires 60 to 70 missiles on a city like Mumbai or Delhi with a combination of 10 hypersonic and 60 dumb ballistic missiles, can our IADS protect us from a hit? Yes, there will always be a limit to how much they can fire.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1934424951689249051

 

[Shan]

combination of 10 hypersonic and 60 dumb ballistic missiles, can our IADS protect us from a hit? Yes, there will always be a limit to how much they can fire.

The saturation style attacks need to be worked upon by every single nation that is developing BMD systems or deploys BMD systems already. You are correct to see it as one of the most potent threats to urban areas where wide scale destruction can be achieved.

 

[_Anonymous_]

I don't think we should be worried about the missile type. The current scenario is a combination of missiles like we fired SCALP with BrahMos. So if Pakistan fires 60 to 70 missiles on a city like Mumbai or Delhi with a combination of 10 hypersonic and 60 dumb ballistic missiles, can our IADS protect us from a hit? Yes, there will always be a limit to how much they can fire.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1934424951689249051

The real threat is China. Paxtan just doesn't have the quantum of BMs required for saturation attacks.

They've dedicated BMs for strategic purposes mainly & sub sonic CMs for dual use that too in limited quantities .

Where they go get here would be interesting to watch.

 

[babablacksheep]

The saturation style attacks need to be worked upon by every single nation that is developing BMD systems or deploys BMD systems already. You are correct to see it as one of the most potent threats to urban areas where wide scale destruction can be achieved.

We Deen density of air defense to deal with that.
Other things like layered air defense network is already being implemented.
But don't know how dense over airdefense network will be.

 

[randomradio]

I don't think we should be worried about the missile type. The current scenario is a combination of missiles like we fired SCALP with BrahMos. So if Pakistan fires 60 to 70 missiles on a city like Mumbai or Delhi with a combination of 10 hypersonic and 60 dumb ballistic missiles, can our IADS protect us from a hit? Yes, there will always be a limit to how much they can fire.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1934424951689249051

Pak does not have the ability to saturate IAF's IADS.

But the IAF has no defenses against hypersonic weapons today.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Why do the indian top brass and IAF pilots and generals so happy with Rafale if they are not complying with the contract ?

this is what shocks me as well. BUT the contract to have rafale was signed in 2016, within three yrs of that, they were supposed to supply the first ac and within three yrs to complete the delivery. which means deliveries to be completed by 2022. But they also got another three yrs to complete iSE on the entire fleet which gave them time till 2025 August. So DA is not in breach of the agreement as of now but within next two months they have to complete the upgradation of all Rafale as per the ISE.

 

[Gautam]

India’s big Indus move: 113-km canal plan to take surplus water to Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan

 

[South block]

India’s big Indus move: 113-km canal plan to take surplus water to Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan

India has started working towards a larger inter-basin water transfer plan to fully utilise its share of Indus river waters.

after suspension of Indus water treaty.... There's no Pakistani share or Indian share. It's all India & we will decide how much Pakistan will get from now on.

 

[TARGET]

Pak does not have the ability to saturate IAF's IADS.

But the IAF has no defenses against hypersonic weapons today.

Yes, currently for hypersonic missiles in the terminal phase, we may not have defense, and it's difficult; maybe our QRSAM can intercept, not sure... We need to do a few tests with our LRLACM as a test target.

Again, Pakistani BM will be intercepted in midcourse or boost phase itself since Pakistan doesn't have depth or distance from the LOC. But if the numbers are high, we may need to have effective systems in place to counter the number of engagements.

 

[randomradio]

this is what shocks me as well. BUT the contract to have rafale was signed in 2016, within three yrs of that, they were supposed to supply the first ac and within three yrs to complete the delivery. which means deliveries to be completed by 2022. But they also got another three yrs to complete iSE on the entire fleet which gave them time till 2025 August. So DA is not in breach of the agreement as of now but within next two months they have to complete the upgradation of all Rafale as per the ISE.

Rafale's ISE was supposed to be completed on the 36th aircraft by 2022 and retrofitted in the first 35, not 2025.

36th Rafale to have all India specific enhancements, arrives Jan 2022

Such is the fighting capability of French Rafale that its one squadron of 18 aircraft is equivalent to 2.5 squadrons (45 fighters) of Su-30 MKI in terms of turn-around and maintenance.

www.hindustantimes.com

 

[randomradio]

Yes, currently for hypersonic missiles in the terminal phase, we may not have defense, and it's difficult; maybe our QRSAM can intercept, not sure... We need to do a few tests with our LRLACM as a test target.

Again, Pakistani BM will be intercepted in midcourse or boost phase itself since Pakistan doesn't have depth or distance from the LOC. But if the numbers are high, we may need to have effective systems in place to counter the number of engagements.

QRSAM is meant to intercept targets up to 750 m/s (mach 2.2), an upgrade from SPYDER-SR's 500 m/s. They may improve that to 1 km/s eventually, but that's about it. Hypersonic interception in this era is not the army's job.

 

[RationalGuy]

Pak does not have the ability to saturate IAF's IADS.

But the IAF has no defenses against hypersonic weapons today.

Our Kusha will be capable of intercepting hypersonic threats?