Pradhanmantri Pakoda Rozgar Yojna
- Thread starter BlackOpsIndia
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Yes! Because they are burden on the economy. They do not produce anything useful and only exist to act as a conduit of money or government orders. In-fact the modern day banks are moving away from people based banking to online and machine based banking. I know in Canada there are many banks who do not even have a single brick-and-morter branch. Heck likes of SBI are trying that these days. Point is they save money on these expenses and offer better interest rates to their customers or more divident to their shareholders.
When all you do is to fill-up forms on screen or just sign orders for approval, you are very much a pencil pusher. You a middle-man running risk of being factored out of the equation. A decision tree and a mobile app will likely take your job.
There is a basic law which is ABOVE the constitution. To receive value you need to provide value. The only thing you can do is to change the time-frame or the form of the value. No system which hands-out more value than it could produce will last for a significant timeframe. Constitution is not having any power over this fact just as you can-not legislate the speed of light to be slightly slower. Sorry, there are no free lunches anywhere.
Degrees are piece of papers unless backed by real skills. Ask yourself, if these folks had real skills why is it so hard for them to get a job or start a business? Either the skills they earned are not what is needed in the market or they are simply not good enough. Most mid to large businesses do not care about anything else: you bring skills on table; you are paid. Simple!
If market needs Data scientists, about time you pivot your astro-physics degree into crunching data for Flipkart. Tough luck if you did a MA in Farsi or MSc in Home Science. No one pays for reciting verses in Farsi or for enumerating nutritional facts of curd.
Interestingly, why you are so fixated on 'skilled jobs'? There may not be place for 16 million civil engineers but surely our economy can accomodate 15.9 new chefs! You start small and move up the value chain. Whats so puzzling about it?
These are fields which are going to generate good number of jobs if you start study now. A lot of jobs which were once branded as 'Business Intelligence' are now taking form of 'Data Science' jobs.
LinkedIn's Fastest-Growing Jobs Today Are In Data Science And Machine Learning
If you need 'high-skilled' job right now, may be start learning Mobile development or hybrid mobile-app development. They are very much needed right now.
Yes, not everyone will become Haldiram but a hell lot of guys will become the owner of local food joint or restaurant starting from a Pakoda stall. Seen it happen too many times to count. You see, everything said and done you have to eat! So why is food jobs being derided for being less worthy than a paper and pencil pusher job which are facing an uncertain future due to ease of automation?
You have gleefully derided selling Pakora as something below the dignity of a graduate! BTW its not too hard to do the basic maths of selling cigs/tea/Pakoda! Folks have done it before me!
https://www.quora.com/How-much-prof...-cigarette-shop-I-plan-to-open-it-late-nights
These businesses can easily generate 1000-1500 INR per day. 30K is not out of question. Things like Gutkha have margins in 10-15%.
Yeah right!
These bank and beaurocratic jobs are falling prey to much bigger trend than politics and government. They are being automated. Its not happening only in India but it is world wide trend. Ask yourself, 10 years back how many people had access to internet on mobile in India? How many of these did their transactions on mobile? These days even your local shop-wala has a PayTM QR code in front of their shop, form which money comes into their account. Why will you need so many bank clerks then?
About the government, all I can say is this: No government can make a skill relevant in market. If something has become outdated because better ways to do that has been found, there is nothing any legislation can do about it. If they try hard, those industry will move elsewhere. Bottom line is very hard to argue.
Curiously, why are you not highlighting the poor career choices made by these folks? I mean a lot of them are pursuing degrees in the fields which are saturated.
Education is important yes, Quality of education is important, also how well developed the skills are more important,
Let me highlight some situations for you,
Most students who now study in higher universities in USA are from India and China, These students are perhaps the core of their respective countries and importantly, they did not stop at being Graduates and crib about it, they opted to show that they are better than mere graduates and that means specialisation.
These students learn better because they have an aim.
Now like you and your pal Bonobashi say,, we make 13 million graduates, but what are the quality of these graduates? Just graduating does not mean a thing, few decade ago, being HSC pass could get you a decent job (my uncle was HSC pass and he got job in Municipal corporation on his MERIT. Sure that time people did not opt for Municpal jobs because they were not high paying, people opted to go to banks as Indian banks were evolving, people opted to join Income tax or other better payers.
Now due to population explosion, the opportunities which are there are highly competitive, Take graduation for example, few decades ago there might be few thousands of Graduates and now there are millions. but what are the quality of these?
The problem in indian mindset is that we want to be graduate to get a job, "become a graduate and you will get a job" but this was true few decades ago, and we have not upgraded ourselves. Graduating merely puts you in pool of few millions of jobless graduates. Merely saying "Modiji give me a job" does not help, What exactly are they doing for their skill set?
Earlier people used to do graduation and typing, later typing was replaced by being computer savvy, now these do not help these are basic norms; "Ability to chat on whatsapp" is not a skill.
Believe me, eduation and knowledge sometimes are not related, and I can give an example
A friend of mine worked with a big pharma company in R&D and he wanted assistants . So being a big pharma company, they put an ad for it,
A day after the ad they received more than few hundred thousand CVs and they called a batch for interview. The first class guys from Chemistry. And during the interview, my friend used to ask them random question, One of which was "what is a buffer" None of the first class holders was able to answer that question, They went through few batches of candidates and then he came to a conclusion that most of these guys are first class holders in chemistry, but they do not know what is buffer, because it was not there in final exam.
Then when working late, he thought to analyse the requirement, and wondered by they needed a Chemistry graduate? Chemistry graduate is perhaps required because they know about Chemistry,
On a weekend, a guy who was studying chemistry in the university and relative of one of the employee was there, and the guy was curiously looking at the R&D lab, rather he was almost stuck to the glass window trying to look at everything. During the past week when he called those candidates, none of them seemed to look at the equipment in the lab most were looking around at the lights, the ACs the flooring and furniture. He called the guy inside and asked him to sit while he was doing the set up of the equipment, but the guy rather than sit, was eager to try and be of assistance. My friend asked him what he was doing, he said he was studying SY BSc, and the next question my friend asked if he wanted to get knowledge part time (work part time) the guy was more eager to learn than about the pay and said yes. He had found the right candidate.,
When he went to the HR, they objected saying the candidate is not a graduate etc etc. His answer was simple, the graduation need was that of HR, and not his, he wanted a candidate who shows initiative in learning and not canddates who just wanted a job. The HR took the matter to the MD, and my friend still had his way.
By the way, do you know that in some posts they need a graduate in many companies where you dont even understand what the need is there for graduates? There are graduates now applying for jobs of JO or Sweeper in MCGB because it pays.
So, now coming back to you, lets say there are a million candiates to have a job, how would you really find the right one? All are graduates,
Lets say there is clerical job is in railway, does being graduate in Chemistry offer better chances than being graduate in Arts? How much percentage might be the right percentatge for him to get a job? Having high marks in say Maths put him in better position than having better marks in Physics? They have an entrance exam for this position.. hahaha. isnt it stupidity? What aptitude will you search in exams for railway clerk? ITs same as having min qualification as Graduate for looking for sweeper
UNFORTUNATELY we are the land of graduates, we CHURN out graduates without require skill set, or aptitude. All the want is to be Graduates and then wait for a govt job to walk their way..
Let me highlight some situations for you,
Most students who now study in higher universities in USA are from India and China, These students are perhaps the core of their respective countries and importantly, they did not stop at being Graduates and crib about it, they opted to show that they are better than mere graduates and that means specialisation.
These students learn better because they have an aim.
Now like you and your pal Bonobashi say,, we make 13 million graduates, but what are the quality of these graduates? Just graduating does not mean a thing, few decade ago, being HSC pass could get you a decent job (my uncle was HSC pass and he got job in Municipal corporation on his MERIT. Sure that time people did not opt for Municpal jobs because they were not high paying, people opted to go to banks as Indian banks were evolving, people opted to join Income tax or other better payers.
Now due to population explosion, the opportunities which are there are highly competitive, Take graduation for example, few decades ago there might be few thousands of Graduates and now there are millions. but what are the quality of these?
The problem in indian mindset is that we want to be graduate to get a job, "become a graduate and you will get a job" but this was true few decades ago, and we have not upgraded ourselves. Graduating merely puts you in pool of few millions of jobless graduates. Merely saying "Modiji give me a job" does not help, What exactly are they doing for their skill set?
Earlier people used to do graduation and typing, later typing was replaced by being computer savvy, now these do not help these are basic norms; "Ability to chat on whatsapp" is not a skill.
Believe me, eduation and knowledge sometimes are not related, and I can give an example
A friend of mine worked with a big pharma company in R&D and he wanted assistants . So being a big pharma company, they put an ad for it,
A day after the ad they received more than few hundred thousand CVs and they called a batch for interview. The first class guys from Chemistry. And during the interview, my friend used to ask them random question, One of which was "what is a buffer" None of the first class holders was able to answer that question, They went through few batches of candidates and then he came to a conclusion that most of these guys are first class holders in chemistry, but they do not know what is buffer, because it was not there in final exam.
Then when working late, he thought to analyse the requirement, and wondered by they needed a Chemistry graduate? Chemistry graduate is perhaps required because they know about Chemistry,
On a weekend, a guy who was studying chemistry in the university and relative of one of the employee was there, and the guy was curiously looking at the R&D lab, rather he was almost stuck to the glass window trying to look at everything. During the past week when he called those candidates, none of them seemed to look at the equipment in the lab most were looking around at the lights, the ACs the flooring and furniture. He called the guy inside and asked him to sit while he was doing the set up of the equipment, but the guy rather than sit, was eager to try and be of assistance. My friend asked him what he was doing, he said he was studying SY BSc, and the next question my friend asked if he wanted to get knowledge part time (work part time) the guy was more eager to learn than about the pay and said yes. He had found the right candidate.,
When he went to the HR, they objected saying the candidate is not a graduate etc etc. His answer was simple, the graduation need was that of HR, and not his, he wanted a candidate who shows initiative in learning and not canddates who just wanted a job. The HR took the matter to the MD, and my friend still had his way.
By the way, do you know that in some posts they need a graduate in many companies where you dont even understand what the need is there for graduates? There are graduates now applying for jobs of JO or Sweeper in MCGB because it pays.
So, now coming back to you, lets say there are a million candiates to have a job, how would you really find the right one? All are graduates,
Lets say there is clerical job is in railway, does being graduate in Chemistry offer better chances than being graduate in Arts? How much percentage might be the right percentatge for him to get a job? Having high marks in say Maths put him in better position than having better marks in Physics? They have an entrance exam for this position.. hahaha. isnt it stupidity? What aptitude will you search in exams for railway clerk? ITs same as having min qualification as Graduate for looking for sweeper
UNFORTUNATELY we are the land of graduates, we CHURN out graduates without require skill set, or aptitude. All the want is to be Graduates and then wait for a govt job to walk their way..
I think this is more a regional dilemma than anything . The West and South having more than its share of PVT sector and entrepreneurs don't look upto Public Sector or Government jobs as in the North or the East of our nation . Hence the outlook is totally at variance as can be gleaned from the posts on this thread .
Oh well, lemme illustrate you the situation with a real example.
Imagine its good old 2005. MAN-mohan is in office! Rahul Jee is younger and yet to marry! But You want a passport! What will you do? You will take a photograph! One job to get a professional photograph of right size! You know those folks with 'Here passport sized photographs are done!'
You will BUY the form from possibly a travel agent because some mofo Babu sold all of them to those leeches.
You will fill it and send it via post or personally to the passport office. One job of courier or a errand runner.
May be a peon will move your file through the archaic offices?
Now enter Tata and governments digitization effort for passport.
Don't need to buy a form, fill it online. Leech gone and so did some postman or courier boy.
No need to get a photograph, it is being taken care inside PSK via a guy with a webcam and a computer. 1 new job created and one old one gone.
Files are not needed to be moved around atleast in PSK/Passport Office. Its all a network. Peon gone! But there will be some folks to maintain the computers and network. Also software folks to develop passport portal etc.
All in all jobs eliminated from govt sector and replaced with different jobs in private. That said, you get passport faster and you can actually keep a track of your application.
Mistake 1: I'm not his pal, and I'm not your pal. Every other member of the forum remains a suspect quantity unless he (or she) is talking real facts and making analyses that are logical.
Mistake 2: If you were not so completely unaware of the ground realities, if you were not just a talking head indulging in mental self-abuse, you would know that 13 million is the number coming on to the job market, not the number graduating.
Mistake 3: Not picking up that it is precisely usable skills that is the factor missing in the 13 million; that it is the job of the education system, a responsibility of the government, to inculcate these skills in the young. And the old.
Indeed, UNFORTUNATELY, we are the land of graduates. Look at this post, full of sound and fury, and without a single usable suggestion.
You know correlation and causation?
They were there before Modi and now they are not there. Whats the cause? Modi, right?
Well, there are other factors at work as well. May be they are not needed anymore! More likely as the economy is still humming along nicely.
You know, we give too much credit to PMs and governments. I think most of time when tide is high it lifts everyone's boat up and vice versa. Many organizations are not rehiring for jobs lost because they don't need people anymore for those jobs. Especially with jobs which are rule based.
Finally we are talking, instead of Pakoda and dignity we are actually adressing the main issue. There is no dearth of skilled manpower in India and irrespective of what you say neither automation is eating govt jobs nor does those engineering degree holder are useless.
The problem is not of quality as you suggest but of quantity. No matter how skilled those new million every year get not all of them are going to get job as the demand is not so high. So the root of problem is population explosion, which govt can control by legislation, reduce number of seats in useless engineering colleges so as to discourage people from joining them, also no amount of self employment is going to reduce the unemployment trap we are headed to due to population bomb.
I am on mobile so can't go point by point by appreciate you coming to the main issue instead of linking it dignity of labor.
I gave a suggestion to find local Jugad for Sous Vide cooking. After all we are the country of Jugad. Its a immersion circulator, sure as hell someone can replicate it with manual stirring and temperature control. Do that and serve nicely done meat and chicken out of scraps. Low cost and higher margin. But then people don't like cooking as profession it seems.
They want bank jobs where they have to sit on their posterior all day clearing cheques. Meanwhile, PayTM is making a killing.
Nope! It is of quality as well. I personally know how a certain consultancy visited multiple colleges in India and they had a horror story of people failing to write a simple fizz-buzz program. These were engineers!
Yeah, right.
Try this if you can. Get a friend, or an ex, or a collaborator (either cash or PayTM) to go through the streets of Calcutta at lunchtime. Or teatime. Or the streets of Mumbai.
Wherever there is a patch of open pavement, or even a bare stretch of road close to offices, there is a congregaton of street food sellers, who will sell you breakfast, lunch or dinner, and any little morsel that diverts your mind from the work you do, pushing papers in either a government bureaucracy or the private sector equivalent.
That story can be true and I am not saying they are best quality grads but they are what companies need, if you are too intelligent company is not going to hire you as you won't stay there. They are no way useless as you say, at least not majority of them not getting jobs.
Also that paytm example is again ignoring the number of engineers hired by paytm. Most companies making a killing have less than thousand employees and here we are talking in millions of people joining the work force.
I lived in Pune for sometime around few years back. There is this place called Pimpri-Saudagar square on the way to Hinjewadi. In the evening till late at night, it becomes a meeting point of all the crowd working in Hinjewadi IT hub. There are quite a few hawkers selling their wares. Tea, Pakoda etc. But the guy who makes the killing is this Nepali. Why so? He has put a Momo stall in the sqaure. A makeshift one. I have never seen him being free for a sec in the evening. The way he dresses suggests he is making north of 50K for sure. May be more than many of his customers. Remember he operates right on the road.
His selling point? No one sells Momos near by and no one makes them in front of customers. He brings Momos uncooked and almost frozen and steams them right there. Isn't this what education was supposed to teach you? How to find opportunity and timing? No one wants to be disturbed in the middle of a busy day. However, during the evening a speciality available cheaply can make a thrifty date.
BTW, I have done it too. Sold food for some extra cash. That said my experience does not count because it was in US.
When was the last time you interviewed any engineer? Skill is precisely the problem and the problem is huge!! Right now we have at least 50 openings in Chennai and Bangalore, with extremely lucrative pay packages. Me and my team members are literally drained out taking interviews at odd hours since we are based at Silicon Valley. In last 3 weeks we could offer only 4 and they are strictly average and we are not even sure whether all of them will join. Now comes the interesting part. We have lost 7 engineers in last 5 weeks, since job market in India is super hot!! Basically even average and below average engineers are also able to get multiple offers. A decade back, these folks would not have been shortlisted.
Now the question is who is supposed to upskill these engineers? Indian government? As Sajida suggested, all these so called engineers need to do some hard work and improve their skill sets. There are tons of free material and tutorials available over net. Even there are free websites where you can simulate your code. What stops people in utilizing these resources?? It's the typical "Free lunch" attitude. Everybody wants a well paying job without putting any effort whatsoever. No wonder some people are desperately missing those "Sarkari jobs"!!
Try this! Ask this to whole batches of engineers!
The feed-back I got was so horrible that it seems the quality problem is massively endemic.
This is the crux of the issue. They are not skilled enough anymore! Or their skills are out of date!
This is what has happened in IT atleast-- the field that I know a bit about.
1. 70s-80s was about creating electronic records. Replacing the paper with bits.
2. 90s was about replacing system dependent packages with web.
3. 2000s were about bringing masses to the internet and putting business almost completely on the internet.
4. 2010s onward are about collecting massive data from the above and try to make sense of it.
The jump is much harder because it is more abstract!
Ohh man, we are losing it. You are talking about microscopic jobs that need excellent skills and cuz of that they are limited to very very small number. Large masses can't be that skilled, problem is that. They need job, they are skilled, govt can't just say we don't care we didn't asked you to study.
If you can't increase jobs at least keep them stable and if you can't do even that don't shamelessly ask them to live on 6,000 per month job in which you have zilch contribution.
Ohh man, we are losing it. You are talking about microscopic jobs that need excellent skills and cuz of that they are limited to very very small number. Large masses can't be that skilled, problem is that. They need job, they are skilled, govt can't just say we don't care we didn't asked you to study.
If you can't increase jobs at least keep them stable and if you can't do even that don't shamelessly ask them to live on 6,000 per month job in which you have zilch contribution.
I know how bad it is and I am really concerned. Indian job market is surviving just because it's still significantly cheaper than US and China. The day any other country comes up with skilled engineers and comparable wages, jobs will fly out of India within no time. Already some companies are opening their branches in east European countries and Ukraine.